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FORUM / RUGBY /  Bismarck and Frans too much for the Stormers

Bismarck and Frans too much for the Stormers

Started by Mozart16 REPLIES338 VIEWS· 12 Jul 2014, 23:45
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Jul 2014, 23:45
#1
12 Jul 2014, 23:45#1

Bismarck was subject to a nasty pile drive tackle by Liebenburg, after which he seemed to have neck issues. A card would have been appropriate. And that head on head clash with JP and Vermeulen was also nasty, but no malice intended.


So what did we learn? In these tight tough games, Frans is a powerhouse in the inside channels...it makes a difference. And his boot was stellar. Bismarck was massive at the breakdown as was Alberts. The Stormers could never match the intensity.


On the day Lewies and Coetzee were a bit better than Schalk and Botha. Although Schalk was warming to his work as the game went on.


McLeod was energetic and effective. Jordaan was dangerous in space, and had a better game than de Jongh, although he was well fended by KanKan!  Still one has to appreciate the one handed pick up at pace close to his line by D Jongh. Taki was the best Stormers back, and his handoff of JP was a classic.


Worst Stormers back by a mile was Taute. Inept kicking, toothless running and a series of terrible passes, one of which was on a plate to Mvovo. The Stormers make a mistake playing Aplon on the wing to accommodate this slow thinking player. Aplon is far more effective at 15... And the one Stormers back who could have sparked something.


The Sharks are tough nuts and dangerous off turnovers. But winning against the Saders away looks to be a huge hurdle.

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
13 Jul 2014, 00:06
#2
13 Jul 2014, 00:06#2
"But winning against the Saders away looks to be a huge hurdle."

They've already done it. I'll back them.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Jul 2014, 00:30
#3
13 Jul 2014, 00:30#3
 I was away todat at a conference which will continue tomorrow and so will wtch the tape later on.
However looking at these stats one wonders how the haplees guppies won this!

KEY STATS

Metres run: Stormers 355-270 Sharks
Carries: Stormers 110-53 Sharks
Defenders beaten: Stormers 16-6 Sharks
Clean breaks: Stormers 1-2 Sharks
Tackles made: Stormers 53-104 Sharks
Tackles missed: Stormers 6-16 Sharks
Turnovers won: Stormers 5-7 Sharks
Kicks in play: Stormers 32-38 Sharks
Rucks won: Stormers 79-35 Sharks
Rucks lost: Stormers 5-3 Sharks
Mauls won: Stormers 6-2 Sharks
Lineouts won: Stormers 17-14 Sharks
Lineouts lost: Stormers 2-4 Sharks
Scrums won: Stormers 7-6 Sharks
Scrums lost: Stormers 0-0 Sharks
Penalties conceded: Stormers 13-13 Sharks

MAN-OF-THE-MATCH

Sharks flank Marcell Coetzee played a stellar game... (Gallo Images)

Thanks for tuning in!

The Sharks did not do enough to finish in the Top 2. They finish 3rd on the overall log and will play a playoff game against the Highlanders in Durban next week.

The Sharks were also officially crowned as South African Conference winners!

FULL-TIME: Stormers 10-34 Sharks

The Sharks have won this game with 34% ball! 


34% of the ball and the Stormers were missing Kitshof, Malhebe. Etzebeth and Deon Fourie, Jean and Allende!!!!!!


How did the wee sharks win this. I can only think its was moments of madness on the part of the Stormers?



CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Jul 2014, 00:33
#4
13 Jul 2014, 00:33#4
 "However looking at these stats one wonders how the haplees guppies won this!"
Easy. They scored more points.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 Jul 2014, 00:36
#5
13 Jul 2014, 00:36#5
 Now, now ou dof doos windpomp no need to look a simpler oak than necessary. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Jul 2014, 00:50
#6
13 Jul 2014, 00:50#6
 You were the one how was asking the kak questions. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Jul 2014, 02:19
#7
13 Jul 2014, 02:19#7
 Coetzee had a stellar game? A decent game, but it was hardly stellar. Why is it I wonder that SA Rugby scribes always exaggerate.
FCoetzee0/000/0/71601025/12/010/0
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Jul 2014, 04:50
#8
13 Jul 2014, 04:50#8
 Mozart
Steyn was other than his kicking at goal - a real disaster area.  He caused the msifing of the whole Sharks backline - by aimless kicking and by refusal to pass balls to other backline players.  That is why the stats quoted by Beeno is relevant - especially the following:-
Metres run: Stormers 355-270 Sharks
Carries: Stormers 110-53 Sharks
Defenders beaten: Stormers 16-6 Sharks


I still have serious  problems with Pietersen at 13 - and in the main with his defense.     
The individual efforts by players like Jordaan and Ungerer made the real difference - scoring tries under circumstances where a player like Steyn destroys backline play is a miracle.   Similar with your other hero Alberts.  He was noticeable in particular for his yellow card.  His ball carries as per normal was useless and ineffectual and for a change he made more tackles than normal - but that is really not the rel issue here at all - his contibuiion tor to the winning of match was really non-existent..
The upcoming match against the Highlanders will be problematic - especially since  the previous match against that team was a disaster because of the poor performance of the same two players you now praise to high heaven.   If these two continue and play the same game against the Highlanders again - they are going to lose badly and the Highlanders will go through to the semis.   
ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
13 Jul 2014, 13:57
#9
13 Jul 2014, 13:57#9
Beeno, having lots of ball means nothing. It's what you do with it. You could have 80% possession and still have zero impact. The fact the Sharks were able to deal out a sound beating with such a dearth of possession only adds to their potency. The Stormers were mosquito's hitting windscreens; but mosquito ball has been their main form of attack for nearly fourteen years, so why the surprise? Sharks head and shoulders above any South African side and the final score reflects that. Time to retire Jean and move onto something more natural in the position; one that doesn't include de Jongh at 12. I thought we learned the folly of that a long tie ago.

It's incredible isn't it Michael. You lambast these very same players to the very same degree every single week regardless of what they do, stating exactly the same worn-out argument almost to the very last word. Your template argument is becoming jaded.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Jul 2014, 14:07
#10
13 Jul 2014, 14:07#10
 Sun Tzu 
I am in a mellow mood lately and am not going to lambast any player - bar where they really have been weak throughout Super 15.  In that case I use simple facts and give reasons for lambasting them.  Problem is they have been weak week after week - so I may sound the same week after week.  

ST
Sun-TzuClub Pro713 posts
13 Jul 2014, 14:13
#11
13 Jul 2014, 14:13#11
 Why then do you speak more positively about Serfontein when his stats are worse than any seasonal stats from Frans from 2008 to 2014? Bias.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Jul 2014, 14:29
#12
13 Jul 2014, 14:29#12
 Sun Tzu
Stats from 2009 to 2013 do not count - it is what is produced at present that counts. The problem is that experience and reputation of the past should go hand-in-hand with present performances.  I used to be a great admirer of Francois Steyn - but he has been disappointing ever since his return from France.
Steyn in the 2012 tests was atrociously bad.  He was ovrweight and his kicking game was a joke in bad taste.   I remember two kicks that were supposed to be relieveing kicks in his own 22 ended up rolling along the grass - putting the whole Springbok side off-sides.  In both cases the Springboks lost points as a result.  
His performances in 2013 was even worse.  Plumtree had full justification in dropping him to the bench - he was bad as well.   Fat and groslly overweight - his speed was even lower than in 2012 and his  defense and other components of performance was a jok in bad taste.  This year in Super 15 he started of looking well and ended up looking the same as in 2012 and 2013.  Let me explain - he was below the standards of any other no 12 in Super 15 and evenly so at flyhalf.  One really had to see what he does with ball in hand or when kicking.  On the whole eh showed no ball sense whatsoever.  He did nt kno when to kick balls and when to pass balls - so he hog balls or kick it away aimlessly - handing possession over to teh opposition.   
For a change Steyn's goal kicking was adequate this year - but that is where it all ends.  He is a liability for any team - rather than an asset.   White may not think so - but the team as a whole will function better without Steyn.  You wills ee that in the CC when Steyn is in Japan.      
    
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Jul 2014, 17:31
#13
13 Jul 2014, 17:31#13
 Mozart
After watching the game again and paying particular attention to some of what you wrote about - I am not sure tht you really showed objectivity in this case.   Lets look at the different players mentioned:-
Francois Steyn
His goalkicking was good - the rest of his game not really up to standard.   Kicking straight out of touch when kicking in balls is extremely poor and if you add failed to find touch with a penalty and kicking a a ball directly into touch (in other words losing ball possession as a result) is really poor form. 
Then there was the tendency of kicking away balls when in the opposition half of the field and as a result ending up within the Sharks own 22 - what he did was kick the ball straight to the recipient and get driven back as a result.   Those were not strategic kicks - they were aimless kicks.  
There was virtually no passing game in evidence on his part and that neutralized the Sharks backline completely.  His few ball carries produced nothing positive as well.  His tackling was on acceptable level.   In essence not an enterprising or acceptable flyhalf - rather a player that can kick well at goal.
Willem Alberts 
The only time Alberts was massive a breakdowns was when he was yellow-carded.  Fact is at brekdowns it was Bismarck and Coetzee who was "massive" in that case.  They made the turnovers and they caused penalties to be awarded.  Afraid this is not Alberts forte.  On the positive side he made a lot of tackles around the fringes, but giving away penalties is not acceptable.
Paul Jordaan
Jordaan is one of our best centers - but t is a pity that Steyn makes sure he virtually never sees a ball.  The only times in the match when he showed class - his own try and his off-load to Chavanga that preceded Sithole's try - was when Steyn was not there to prevent the said plays.
JacoTaute
In watching the game again - I think that you are wrong - the worst Stormers backline player wa s De Jongh. twice losing possession when tackled and not making any impression whatsoever during the game.    He got enough balls to play with and that was the difference between him and Jordaan.





 
              
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
13 Jul 2014, 18:38
#14
13 Jul 2014, 18:38#14
 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Jul 2014, 22:36
#15
13 Jul 2014, 22:36#15
 
MA
manceRookie63 posts
14 Jul 2014, 13:53
#16
14 Jul 2014, 13:53#16
 Although I hardly ever post here, I can safely assume that CleverMike is quite mad. Frans Steyn's executed the game plan quite brilliantly.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Jul 2014, 14:16
#17
14 Jul 2014, 14:16#17
 Mabce
What game plan did Steyn execute?   Kicking aimlessly nd not strategically and virtually never passing a ball - is that the game plan he exe cuted?
— END OF THREAD —

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