Bok centre combination

 Serfontein and JJ. Dries Swanepoel to replace JJ in the future.

At this point has to be Jean / JJ.

Serfontein hasn't had sufficient game time to start him in the RC. There is no reason to exclude JDV - his form and leadership are undeniable and necessary. Meyer missed a real oppportunity in the quadrangular to get all three on the paddock at the same time in a Jean / Serfontein / JJ combo.

Robert Ebersohn deserves at least a mention ... surely?

The way Jean's been playing of late there's no way he shoukld be left out of the Bok starting 15. He seems more comfortable at 12 than he does at 13. 

Having said that ... perhaps we should rather choose the best 13 ... cause we already have 12 sorted.

 CC, Jeans been playing superbly but can you leave Serfontein out? 

Ebersohn is decent, just doesn't have what Jan does.

For the RC it would be Jean/JJ. I really like Serfontein and am a big believer in just playing your young guns, but Jdv has done very well this year, and his leadership is unquestioned. EOYT has to see a lot of JJ/Serfontein.

12. Jean de Villiers

13. Serfontein

I totaly agree with Ihi jdv and de jong is the best centre combination, also believe le roux is overated as a fullback, aplon currently the best fullback and he has a good boot as well, le roux better off at wing

Shezza ... problem is that one shouldn't just replace an in form player like De Villiers just cause there's an awesome talent like Serfontein forcing his way into the mix. Serfontein should take the 12 jersey away from Jean and not be given a freeby.

You agree??

Yes I do agree regarding Ebersohn. He has had a fantastic season, especially at 12. A far better option if you ask me than De Jongh. Maybe a bench spot for the lad?? He can cover both 12 & 13.

I guess the better option is to have both Serfontain and De Villiers in as suggested above. 

Any talk of a current Bok team without their captain Jean is total bollocks. What can be debated though is, who's at 13 ? For me Serfontein, JJ's a bit of a turnstyle .

Dave i see your very passionate about those players but we just got to accept facts none of the south african centres are playing so well that they siply HAVE to be selected at all costs. jean is old and has weaknesses but he is solid and has leadership and experience which is important right now. its just too bad that no other saffers are putting their hands up for selection you guys just dont have very good centres. its by far the weakest part of south african centres, it has gotten better over the years but its still lightyears away from new zealand and australia. so you guys have to have a solid 12 and a good defender at 13. de jongh is the only proven defender at 13 for the boks and he knows jean well so thats another plus. right now thats the best bet. just got to make the most of what you have not want you want.

Well Ihi ... who does Oz have that's light years away from the Bok center pair of Serfontein and Jean?

Barnes? ... Faingaa? ... Lealifano? ... Ashley Cooper .... ?? McCabe??

Puhlease!!!! I somehow do not find myself shaking in my boots over those chumps!!

Take the All Blacks ... Nonu, Smith and who else ... ???

Ranger is gone ... no SBW ... please tell me ... which All Black center is light years away from our boys??

I think a formidibal centre pairing for NZ would be

12 - Bundee Aki and 13- Tim Nanai-Williams

DEADLY

Haaahahaaa ... yes it seems we are Dave!!!

It's easy enough ... Ihi is talking crap.

Either that or you've come to your senses.  :-)

it would be interesting to see on current form if Jan and JJ could beat Bundee and Tim.

Mike , Tim when fit has unbelievable pace and his centre of gravity makes him pretty hard to bring down. I understand he hasnt been consistant but on the Day he can run circles round most. Bundee has superb vision.

The All Blacks are due to change personel soon.

Starting from their hooker to their openside flanker right through to their center pair.

Tim is very illusive. Great attacker ... but a liability defensively. He struggles to hold onto a starting spot at the Chiefs.

I do not consider Aki as an All Black ... not quite yet in any case.

CleanCut , i would say that Tims weight may count against him and he doesnt back himself as a defensive unit. But its his attacking ability that warms me. Strangely enough , I am actually at a loss for names that stand out at 13 in NZ..Freuan maybe.

Buzz, I'm sure I read somewhere that Freuan has heart issues. Not sure how serious it is.

A powerful man ... had his best season when the magic of SBW was on his inside. Not much of creator. More of a crashball runner. He needs someone to put him into the gap.

I wonder if we'll see him next season?

Amazing how the boys down under have such a lot of issues with their organs. 

Must be their diet. Can't figure it!!

Moz, I'll check all those takes and counter them as I know JJ had a solid game and de Jongh was as average as ever. I'll get back to you on those passages of play.

Serfontein last week, missed more tackles than JJ has in any match. But I know Serfontein has no real issue with his defence, in fact he is a strong defender, just like I know JJ is. Serfontein will never make the impression JJ does at 13 and that is purely down to JJ's speed and quick feet. Serfontein would be as ineffective as Jean was at 13. Nope Jean has to go, he needs to go while he is still a solid option.

Serfontein is better than Jean right now and the future at 12. Serfontein would make a solid 13, but why bother when JJ has made the impression he has made at 13 this year. Mark my words, with JJ's skill at 13, he is going to make the position his own and will end up a far better player than the likes of Joubert and Fourie. You cannot buy that pace and step at 13......JJ is the ideal modern day 13.

The Boks have the potential to really step it up in the backs if they invest in Goosen, Serfontein and JJ as their focal attackers, with the likes of Habana, JP and Willie as their finishers. No international side has that kind of potentila coming through at 10, 12 & 13

Speed got nothing to do with 13. Unless you are still stuck in the 90'a. Jacque Fourie was he quick or was a strong ball carrier?

Conrad SMith quick or is he a strong ball carrier?

Fofana? Strong ball carrier

Lets see what happened to converted players who was quick where many thought they would make good centres. Remember Christian CUllen? Turned out well didn't it?

Being quick in the centres going to help you not much unless you intercept. You get the ball with defenders in your face and basically not much space against a drifting defense. You can't go around them.

Sorry Saffex, you said serfontein missed a lot of tackles last week. He didnt play last week that was venter.

Ok Moz here goes......this is easier than I thought it would be:

Minute 15.25 - had nothing to do with JJ, de Jongh is missed by Venter. JJ was merely a nearby spectator. Not  JJ miss at all

Minute 26.55 - JJ smashes de Jongh, good hit 

Minute 29.09 - v/Aswegen steps inside JJ who is covering the outside, the step takes JJ off balance and he ends up on his knees - had nothing to do with being pushed off. Good step by v/A in traffic which does not amount to much. It was not a one on one miss by JJ, he was covering the outside and got stepped.

Minute 34.19 - has nothing to do with JJ, Jean beats his opposite number on the outside, JJ is marking his man on the outside as he should be, he dives to try stop Jean as a desperate measure - no fault of his at all, he would have relied on Venter tackling Jean. JJ cant mark two players.

Minute 51.30 - again has nothing to do with JJ, Venter misses de Jongh, JJ comes to assist

Minute 53.19 - de Jongh steps JJ partially but JJ catches him with ease within metres.

The only half misses by JJ were against v/Aswegen in minute 29 and de Jongh in minute 53. For the rest JJ's defence was spot on or he was not the culprit.

JJ had a solid game defensively and saw little ball given the Bulls never turned up for that game.

I have no issue with JJ's defence at all and its his attacking attributes that sets him apart