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FORUM / RUGBY /  Bok flyhalf discussion...let's have your views

Bok flyhalf discussion...let's have your views

Started by Mozart46 REPLIES893 VIEWS· 28 May 2014, 18:32
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 May 2014, 18:32
#1
28 May 2014, 18:32#1

I posted this on another thread.....but it's the most important selection issue.....and perhaps the most opaque. So here goes:

 

Morne is a Bools style kicking flyhalf. He is not a natural runner with the ball....nor is he anything more than an adequate defender. But he is a great kicker of the ball....and as we saw at Ellis Park for Habana's two tries.....he can time and throw a good long pass. He is also an experienced/steady decision maker at 10.

 

Lambie is really not physically set to be much more than a Morne clone. He may be slightly better on the run and in the tackle....but he isn't impactful at either. And he is not as good a kicker and crucially not as mentally tough. I'd hate to see the last RWC kick being given to Lambie

 

Goosen's reputation is based on his open field running and huge boot. But he is not as good a tactical kicker as Morne, and his running is compromised by his flinching from contact. His decision making is still a bit of a mystery and his tackling is probably the weakest of the candidates. Then there is the effect on the team of  playing with  injury risk...a ticking time bomb.

 

We have the youngsters Pollard and Swiel. To me Pollard has a better head at this stage and looks more rugged. But time will tell....after RWC15. Perhaps Pollard has a bench shot....but it's a long one.

 

 

And so on to Marnitz ....a rugged player. I don't think he passes as well as Morne and I don't think he reads the game as well as Morne. For the rest he may be a bit better. A deadly goal kicker, solid tackler and reliable runner in tight spaces. To me this is the closest option for a straight Morne swop....but in the end, the edge where it exists is too slight to lose all Morne's experience. Then there is a nagging thought that at one stage Cat looked just like Marnitz and where did that take us?

 

So finally on to my pick Frans. Not a neat package by any means. He has been charged, lost his boot for a game, missed some tackles.....lost some balls. He obviously likes his meals. But he is a huge talent. He can run in tight spaces and offload. He smashes players when he gets hold of them....ask Beal or Shane Williams. And he had the nerve to kick the RWC winner at 20.  He is still learning the flyhalf game....but winning matches along the way.

 

The choice in essence comes down to a classical kicking flyhalf...Morne. Or the kind of rugged player at 10 that seems  to ignite Bok teams....like Honibal and Butch . I'd play Frans with Morne on the bench.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
28 May 2014, 18:59
#2
28 May 2014, 18:59#2
Moz, a good read. I agree with most of what you have said, but I would start Morne with Goosen on the bench. Morne is not the most exciting player, but he is reliable enough. Also, as I understand it, Frans is injured, so that is not an option. I like Pollard, but he has not been tested enough.   
I reckon the June series is the time to test the young guns, so I'd like to see Goosen and maybe even pollard get some game time. Come Castle Champs, and we have to field our strongest side, no space for experimentation. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 May 2014, 19:10
#3
28 May 2014, 19:10#3
 The obvious choice right now is Potgieter a complete package and mature player.Thereafter we have Pollard coming up and Lambie, with his calm head, can do a job.Goosen has a lot to prove and the time to prove it. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 May 2014, 19:13
#4
28 May 2014, 19:13#4
Three posts...three picks. Poor HM, whoever he chooses the majority are going to be unhappy.  
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
28 May 2014, 19:16
#5
28 May 2014, 19:16#5
True Moz. I went with Goosen on the bench because he has some experience, and seems to be finding some form again after an extended injury free run. Morne to start out of a lack of tried and tested options. 
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
28 May 2014, 19:59
#6
28 May 2014, 19:59#6
Good summary Moz - assessments pretty much spot on. 
So for the June series with F Steyn and Lambie out, M Steyn not a camp attendee, Pollard at JWC, Goosen an injury risk (held out of the sessions at Bok camp with a stiff neck) that leaves Boshoff. Surprised JLP hasn't been called in for cover.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 May 2014, 19:59
#7
28 May 2014, 19:59#7
I'm guessing you are going to be right Morne to start Goosen on the bench.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 May 2014, 20:15
#8
28 May 2014, 20:15#8
 Potgieter to start and Boschoff on the bench. Its time to see how guys will go come WC time. Try these two out.  
Meyer listen to Beeno -always the wise thing to do! 
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
28 May 2014, 21:40
#9
28 May 2014, 21:40#9
im surprised that potgieter dosent get more of a mention, he would be my No 10 for the Boks with goosen on the bench, but i woiuldnt mind if those two were switched.

potgieter especially when he first cam on had the morne like accuracy with his all rpound kicking game, but never stood as deep as morne and often challenged the line with a ton of good results.
he fell of form a bit the last month, but that slight slump when compared to his performance at its peak, easily has the scales balanced in the positives.

frans at 10 is a bit of a waste, play him at 12 or IMO at 15 where his power ranger boot can be really used to its fullest potential.

if goosen could shake the injury magnet which is in his DNA, he would be my first pick easily, but he has that aura around him where he could a get a bad injury from someone yelling at him.

if lambie is fit, he would be my first pick 10 easy, but last i heard he was out for the season??? o_O
lambies form hasnt been the best, but his last few games for  the Boks at 10 was  pretty impressive, more game time needs to be invested so that he can build on that an strengthen his mental resolve.

morne is kak period. its easy to mistaken morne for going to paris st germain, cos he kicks the ball more times then anyone of their players.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 May 2014, 22:26
#10
28 May 2014, 22:26#10
 What a load of crap we are dealing with here.   
Morne Steyn has all positives listed by Mozart with one or two examples from his years of playing rugby.  All the positives vanished into thin air when he joined Stade Francais and they found that he is carrying so much negative baggage that they dare not play him as their flyhalf.  As we saw at Ellis Park he buggered up his defense and gifted the AB's a try because of his inability to take decisions.   If he became the front line flyhalf of Stade Francais I would have said I was wrong all along and he was not the failure I made him out to be for the Springboks,  He failed for the Springboks s he has now failed for Stade Francais.    A bench club flyhalf is certainly not an international quality flyhalf.
Lambie is described as a Morne clone - but there is a huge difference between him and Morne - he can read the game and take better decisions and his kicking game is accurate and purposeful - something you cannot say about Morne's kicking game.
First of all the injury story this year.   Despite the melodramatic announcements  of Mozart about injuries there was only one serious injury and that was related to concussion - an injury that stems directly from contact with players and in a way detract from your statement that Goosen is afraid to make contact and by doing so avoid injuries.   Mind you there were a lot of players this year that missed games as a result of concussion - so it is not an indication of injury prone players.

Secondly lets look in more detail at Goosen's stats:-

Goosen

1/0

129

84/179/60

216

1

11

10

5

74/13

0/0

3

0/0


Goosen always was a type  flyhalf that kicks less and passes balls more than normal SA flyhalfs - in other words he plays a more balanced and less-predictable  technical game than other flyhalfs,   However - he did carry the ball 60 times for an average gain of  3.6 meters per carry.   In the process he made 1 line break and beat 11 defenders - also not indicative of a player who tries to void contact.
A further interesting point is that he made 74 tackles and missed 13 tackles.   That represents a missed tackle ratio of 14,9% - which is entirely acceptable - bearing in mind that Francois Steyn's ratio at flyhalf is over 20%.   The tackles stats does not confirm a tendency by Goosen to avoid contact.
IF ANYBODY CAN FIND ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER ABOUT "his flinching from contact. His decision making is still a bit of a mystery and his tackling is probably the weakest of the candidates". - THEN PLEASE PRODUCE THE PROOF OR STOP TALKING BULLSHIT IN HUGE LOADS.
Then we have Fransie that did one good line break the whole series and now he is still Mr Wonderful.  He has been playing for the Springboks for 7 years and he is still learning - must be a bloody slow learner.    The man is not a flyhalf and his tackling record is anything but convincing - he missed too many tackles because of a serious speed deficiency  and he will not make the grade because of his lack of penetration - one break does not mean he can do it regularly - he cannot.  Anyway he is likely to be out for the season and is off to Japan afterwards - to come back slower and fatter. 
So poor Meyer has a huge problem on his hand to select the flyhalf and I can only see him picking Goosen and putting the useless Morne on the bench - even though I think Boshoff on the bench will be better.     


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 May 2014, 23:30
#11
28 May 2014, 23:30#11

So in 4 games at flyhalf Frans made as many metres as Goosen made in all 11. As for flinching there is no stat for that, but this boy does not make vigorous tackles. I don't blame him given his injury history....but it facilitates the offload. Guys don't offload out of a Fransie tackle. All tackles are not equal...that said Frans made more tackles per game than Goosen.

 

You have made a lot of comments about Steyn's weight OOM. But my bet is you are a TV slug yourself.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 May 2014, 23:44
#12
28 May 2014, 23:44#12
Mozart
 Goosen did not play in 11 games.  He missed 3 games due too concussion.   Players do not need to off-load balls when Fransie attempts tackles - Slade was proof of that in the recent game.   Fransie made more tackles per game than Goosen (which is another wild Mozart statement without any proof whatsioever) - but he even if he does - he also missed many more tackles than Goosen.   I did not check recently what the percentage was - but at flyhalf Fransie at one stage had a missed tackle ratio of 36% - in one game it was in fact 50%.   Overall his missed ratio was more than 23%.
Why don't you ever check facts before making wild statements?    
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
28 May 2014, 23:53
#13
28 May 2014, 23:53#13

 I believe Heyneke never was 100% convinced that Morne is/was the right player for 10, but in recent years he had no real other choice. I say this because back in the hey days of the Bulls, Derick Hougaard was his 1st choice everytime with Morne doing bench duties.

 

In view of this Meyer might be more than just interested in Johan Goosen - especially if the combo Fourie du Preez - Goosen looks OK. Otherwise he will fall back on the tried and tested FdP-Morne combo.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2014, 00:33
#14
29 May 2014, 00:33#14
 Blikkies
The problem I think Meyer is facing is the lack of game time of Morne this year - largely because Stade Francais did not use him as their starting flyhalf.   Morne is consequently an unknown quantity and Meyer might hesitate to use him - he had very little rugby this year.   In 5 weeks time Morne will be 30 years and he is now in the category where age begins to play a role in performance.  
De Villiers once said that at 31 he has to train twice as hard as he did at 29 so as to maintain the performance standard he maintained at 29.   With comparatively little game time this year did Morne  really keep matchfit to play on international level?  I have my doubts.  
We would have to wait and see what comes out of the injury report due tomorrow - as well as Meyer's team selection for the 7 June match.   In a way that can be regarded as a type of Super trials match - so there might be some surprises. 
Initial reports indicated that Goosen did not do field training this week - so there may be some niggle with him as well.
The other change that is bound to happen is with Alberts - he has a fairly serious fat strain and is likely to be out for the tests series as well.  
    
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 May 2014, 00:38
#15
29 May 2014, 00:38#15
@Mike. I hope that you do not intend to reply to this in your usual crappy way. I want to show you just how flawed your approach to the assessment of players becomes when you start throwing "stats" around in the way that you do it. In addition, my intention is not to have a Morne v Goosen debate at all. I merely want to address your use of stats.

Last year your main concern about Morne Steyn was his kicking away of balls and his lack of distribution. Your other gripe was his defence and you based your argument solely on  the Ellis Park test.

You have now, from  what I can understand, compiled Goosen's aggregate stats for this season so far. I have checked and Goosen has so far played in 11 games for the Cheetahs. In order to get as close to comparing apples with apples as possible, I have compiled Morne's stats for the first 11 games that he played in the 2013 S15.

So. Let's compare the distribution (K/P/R) stats for the two as well as the defence stats (tackles made/missed) of two.

Distribution:
Steyn:  150/214/67. He handled the ball 431 times in total.
Goosen: 84/179/60. He handled the ball 323 times which is 108 times less than Steyn.

In order to try and put the ratios of kick/pass/run into perspective you could also convert it into percentages. That would result in the following:
Steyn: 34.8/49.65/15.55
Goosen: 26/55/19
So while it is true that Steyn kicked slightly more than Goosen there is not really that much of a difference. Fact is that Steyn's distribution as nowhere as diabolical as you have portrayed it. What is however clear as daylight is the fact that Morne was a hell of a lot  more involved in  the game. To be more accurate, in 2013 Steyn was involved 108 more times, at the same stage, than what Goosen has been so far this season.

Now for the big defence issue- again over the same periods:

Steyn: 91/12 (88.35%/11.65%)
Goosen: 74/13 (85.06%/14.94%)

Let me just stress this again. This is not a MS v JG debate. It is about your selective use of "stats".

 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 01:11
#16
29 May 2014, 01:11#16
Goosen walks it hands down, the only real challenger is Lambie. Goosen has shown in the past few weeks that he has his mojo back - the perfect all round flyhalf......great attacking flair and a big boot on him. I also like that he muscled up considerably......which should negate any questions of fragility.

Lambie is another great allround 10, with star qualities.

Morne should never have played a single test for the Boks

Jantjies has fallen to the ignorance of Ackerman.....the same fool who selects Deon v/Rensburg at 13 and Cronje at 9. Its sad how Jantjies has been treated......I trust he will be moving on.

Boshoff is a handy enough flyhalf, I like him.......has a textbook kicking action.....he is not test standard though - he has no x factor with ball in hand.

Frans is no flyhalf, never has been......does not have the temperament for 10 and his hand to foot is too slow under pressure......a handy stand in 10 if need be.

Pollard and Swiel are the best of our up and coming 10's.

Goosen to start with Lambie as back-up......very easy selection  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 01:18
#18
29 May 2014, 01:18#18
 Oh what complete and utter rubbish.....not one of those players have shown anything of note this S15, that has little to do with their ability and more to do with the state of the game and in some cases gameplans.......in particular the Bulls when it comes to gameplan

A centre cant operate without the ball or be expected to set the world alight in traffic.

This would all hold so much sway with you, if in fact Jean, Frans and the like had made massive impressions this year with ball in hand. Reality is, they have done anything but.......so you can bang on all you like about JJ, for your argument falls flat on its face given the standard set by the rest of the SA centres out there.

So saying these centres have made stronger contributions is nothing short of bullshit.......hell if we could push for a slightly better contribution by one of them, it would be so marginal it would hardly be worth the time of day.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 01:19
#19
29 May 2014, 01:19#19
Thats what I said dumd Dutchmen, Moz informed me that I was wrong!!  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 May 2014, 01:39
#20
29 May 2014, 01:39#20
 "Goosen to start with Lambie as back-up......very easy selection"#

If those are the facts we are in for a rough ride because:

1. Lambie is out for six months.

2. Not everybody is as confident in Goosen as you are.

"  'What worried me, I didn't think [Johan] Goosen controlled the game well at 10. In those conditions a flyhalf has got to kick, and kick it intelligently and accurately, which he didn't do. They tried their wide game, their handling was poor.'  "

..and...

"  'You need your halfbacks to vary the play in those conditions, to put the ball behind that Stormers defensive line and neither [Shaun] Venter nor Goosen did that today. Question marks remain over whether Goosen can play a tactical game, when you need to actually kick the ball and keep it in front of your forwards.'  "
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 01:43
#21
29 May 2014, 01:43#21
I dont give a flying toss what other people think.......Goosen has been good in his last few outings and showed ages ago he was the real deal.

I'm not talking Lambie for now, I'm talking in general

Let me guess thick Dutchie, you would select Morne right?
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 May 2014, 01:48
#22
29 May 2014, 01:48#22
 Oh dear. There we go again. Die fokken kind bly maar common.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
29 May 2014, 01:53
#23
29 May 2014, 01:53#23
 Good news for the Sharks28 May 2014 at 17:16 by Andre Bloem - There is encouraging news for the Cell C Sharks on the injury front.0 COMMENTS 

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White says Pat Lambie should be ready to play against the Toyota Cheetahs in early July.

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(File Photo:Gallo Images)

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2014, 01:59
#24
29 May 2014, 01:59#24
 Mozart
Statistically and othrwise the worst performing 1 of SA this year was Fransie.   No line breaks - limited number of tackles beaten and the worst tackle stats of any inside center.   Serious ball hogging and repeated crashballing was virtually his only game.   There can be no argument about that one.  
The best no 12 centers were -
1 De Allende2 Serfonteirn3 De Villiers 4 Benjamin5 Steyn
The no 12 centers can be categorize as follows;-
1  Jordaan2  Sadie 3  JJ4  De Jongh
De Jongh's downfall was his extremely poor and at times non-existent defense and his inability to create space for others - he thrived on good play originating from De Allende and De Villiers.    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 May 2014, 02:01
#25
29 May 2014, 02:01#25
 Geez Dave you are wrong on every side of this issue. No Lambie is not available for the June tests....and no he is not out for the season. Hahaha.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 May 2014, 02:18
#26
29 May 2014, 02:18#26

Dave wants to select a player who will be off the park for another 5 months. Must be the effect of rooting for JJ who seems to be off the park, even when he is on the park.

 

And here's another OOM gaff.  The Cheetahs have played 14 games OOM....count them, you'll need two hands and one foot. Then when you subtract the 3 games Goosen was injured you get....wait for it...eleven games he played. In those eleven games he ran for 216 metres. In Frans' 4 game spell at flyhalf he ran for 206 metres. But he's useless hey?

 

This is the man that quotes figures at us, the moron thought the Cheetahs had only played 11 games. Apologize you old fool. 

 

May 24, 2014 Stormers 33 - 0 Cheetahs Match pack May 17, 2014 Cheetahs 27 - 21 Brumbies Match pack May 10, 2014 Cheetahs 16 - 23 Force Match pack May 3, 2014 Bulls 26 - 21 Cheetahs Match pack Match pack Apr 26, 2014 Cheetahs 35 - 22 Stormers Match pack Apr 19, 2014 Sharks 19 - 8 Cheetahs Match pack Apr 12, 2014 Cheetahs 31 - 52 Crusaders Match pack Apr 5, 2014 Cheetahs 43 - 43 Chiefs Match pack Mar 22, 2014 Blues 40 - 30 Cheetahs Match pack Mar 15, 2014 Hurricanes 60 - 27 Cheetahs Match pack Mar 7, 2014 Reds 43 - 33 Cheetahs Match pack Feb 28, 2014 Rebels 35 - 14 Cheetahs Match pack Feb 21, 2014 Cheetahs 15 - 9 Bulls Match pack Feb 15, 2014 Cheetahs 20 - 21 Lions
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 02:49
#27
29 May 2014, 02:49#27
Moz, you were the one that reminded me that Lambie was not out for the year, so Lambie is the back-up when he returns. For now, Frans would be the perfect cover.

Next you will be telling me Jean, Frans, Sadie, de Jongh, Watermeyer, Sithole and Jordaan have been better than JJ this year??????
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 May 2014, 03:03
#28
29 May 2014, 03:03#28
Sadly yes Dave....all those players have made stronger contributions than JJ ....something is better than nothing. My advice would be to cut your losses...but I know that's hard for you. Still you have been more than loyal....no shame in getting out of Dodge.  
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
29 May 2014, 04:26
#29
29 May 2014, 04:26#29
Just watched the Stade Francais / Wasps game and Morne played well apart from two kicks out the back that the commentators said was typical of visiting flyhalfs unused to the field. Made plenty of good passes, accurate up and unders, kickoffs were stellar. For some odd reason they did not have him kicking for goal, but instead the scrumhalf who made a real hash of it and frankly cost the game. What is the French obsession with scrummies kicking for goal?
Its no surprise he has not started every game with Plisson the starting French 6N flyhalf playing so well (heard some in the French media call him the Mozart of French rugby). Morne missed the entire pre-season build-up and Plisson was already in good form with the club playing well. Quesada had no reason to make a change. Somehow I doubt they would have signed Morne if they could have predicted the season Plisson would have.
Morne would do the Bok 10 jersey proud, as he consistently has.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2014, 05:20
#30
29 May 2014, 05:20#30
 oi-matey
So I assume from your comments that Morne did start in this game.   Glad to hear he did play well - but I am still not convinced that he would make the frade at flyhalf for the Springboks.   
I also think that Stade Francais afterwards found out they made a mistake at signing him up.  If he was a better flyhalf of international quality - a rookie like Plisson would not have kept him out of the starting line-up.  I saw a recent game where he came on at about minute 74 and buggered up badly in the last 7 minutes.
 
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
29 May 2014, 05:42
#31
29 May 2014, 05:42#31
Yep, he started. Subbed around 55th minute. Commentators mentioned they were a little surprised Plisson didn't start in such a crucial game as he had such a good year and was a big part of Stade Francais success. Tough to unseat the incumbent French flyhalf playing on form for a French team no matter who you are. I think Quesada knew exactly what he was getting in Morne - no one pays that kind of money without doing your research - but no one anticipated the year Plisson would have.

Its unfathomable to me why they would start him and not have him kicking for goal. Easily one of the top 3 kickers in the world with Halfpenny and Carter. Part of what makes him a good player and how he contributes. If anything, that shows what Quesada thinks of the competence of the rest of his game to keep Plisson on the bench.





CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2014, 06:40
#32
29 May 2014, 06:40#32
 oimastrey
sure a bit puzzling to me as well - unless the Stade Francais crowd thought it would in the main be a kicking out-of-hand game.   By the time Morne was replaced - what was the score?   
I did not understand about the two kicks you mentioned.  Did Morne kicked it directly into touch or over the dead ball line? 
All in all Wasps is not the strongest side in the Aviva chanpionship - and Stade Framcais - although second on the Top 14 log Stade Francis started to go backwards fast during the 6 Nations championship.   So maybe they have apportioned some blame for that to Morne - who was the starting flyhalf in the absence of Plisson.
  
 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 May 2014, 09:20
#33
29 May 2014, 09:20#33
 
Boshoff is green. That's all he has against him.

There is no doubt of his talent.

Now is the perfect time to bring him in. Teach him a little about tactical kicking.

Goosen has had a his chance and showed us that he doesn't have what it takes. Same goes for Jantjies. They're both mediocre. Average.

I don't like the way Potgieter combs his hair so he'll never be an option for me. Besides that, he's nothing special. Never has been ... never will be.

Lambie is one of the better prospects but he too hasn't dazzled us with anything really special at test level. He's shown that pressure kicks at test level get to him. Highly talented. Lacks the self belief to take it to the next level.

Bottom line ... we need a fresh approach and I believe Marnitz is the answer. He has the talent. Doesn't shy away from the physical. Has a decent step. Likes to play flat.

He's my man.


SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 14:01
#34
29 May 2014, 14:01#34
Well Moz, tell that to Vlag who maintains in bold that Lambie is out for the season.......which was my original take on his playing status until you informed me otherwise.

Either way, he remains my back-up to Goosen, when fit
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 14:06
#35
29 May 2014, 14:06#35
Clown your saluting of Boshoff is commendable, but he is just another average player with marginally better rugby skills than useless Morne.......Boshoff possesses no attacking flair........we dont need another kicking Bok flyhalf.

He is at best a solid player, but test standard he is not. Goosen and Lambie are Meyers men......the only reason Boshoff is getting a look in, is because Lambie and Frans are injured and Pollard is away with the Baby Boks

We dont need average players playing for the Boks, we need stars......Boshoff is not even close.

He does however have a model kicking action.....the best I have seen in years
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 May 2014, 15:46
#36
29 May 2014, 15:46#36
I can understand the infatuation with Goosen. If he was real it would certainly be appealing. But do you guys think Naka doesn't want to win? And if he does why is he taking off the perfectly serviceable Daniller to put Watts at flyhalf when the match is up for grabs? And why do the Cheetahs look more purposeful when Watts comes on.
But the Goosen dream is human nature....hoping for something magical. But why Lambie? This chappie had the flyhalf berth for the 2012 YE tour and based on a low passing grade many, myself included, felt he would grab hold of the 10 berth. Instead we saw him declining week by week in the 2013 S15. Finally there was no Michalak or Morne to blame. He had 10 all to himself.
But as the weeks went by he ran less and less....and resorted to kicking. And his goal kicking also declined. By the end of S15 2013, most fans felt Morne was the better choice.
Now after playing almost no meaningful rugby for a year, we are supposed to forget all that happened and believe he somehow has something positive to offer South African rugby? 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 May 2014, 16:51
#37
29 May 2014, 16:51#37
 Moza rt
Again a string of wild observations not supported by fact.   The real problem was not Lambie - but the whole functioning of the Sharks backline in 2013.   That centers entirely around the initial lack of performance by an unfit and overweight Steyn and his replacement by Bosman.   At a critical time Jordaan was injured as well and that was the end of the backline performances to be expected.  
The proof that Lambie's perforrmances were not up to standard is a figment of your imagination based on prejudice against the player concerned.   Beware the player who competes with your favourites for selection to the Springbok team - they will be attacked endlessly on this site without reference to fact and based on rubbish personal "observations".   Th moment you come up with factual support of your arguments - that is the moment we can attach some real to your contributions - until that happens we can only laugh at the way your prejudice and hatred of some players cloud your judgement.               
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 May 2014, 17:10
#38
29 May 2014, 17:10#38
 
You may be right, Stupid.

Time will tell.

There was a lot of hype around the new saviour of South African rugby and as time passed us by it turned out to be unfounded. Goosen dashed our hopes with his mediocrity and so we search the horizon for another.

There's not even a handful of posters on this site calling for Goosen's selection. Reason being that they have no confidence in the lad. 

I may find out this time next year that Boshoff is as you say ... however I have every confidence in this lad maturing into something special.

Thing is ... will we see him given a shot under Meyer?

Somehow I doubt Meyer has the cahones to be daring. He will secure the general public's opinion by selecting the Goosens, the Mornes and Frans Steyns.




SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 May 2014, 17:43
#39
29 May 2014, 17:43#39
Last I checked, Goosen single handedly beat the Brumbies two weeks ago .......so he is pretty real.
Clown I'm struggling to see why he needs another shot with Meyer......it was under Meyer that Goosen ripped the Aussies to shreds.....the only thing that has stood in Goosen's way is injury.
But take a closer look at todays Goosen......the lad is all muscle these days......which should hopefully help on the injury front
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 May 2014, 18:23
#40
29 May 2014, 18:23#40
 Amazing........


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