Bok IRB Players Of The Year and Nominees

 Winning those awards are all subjective. Its like the Oscars. Just because a movie wan, does not mean it is the best movie ever, some may prefer others. You can't argue a fact that Matfield or Burger for e.g. Are at the Echelons because they wan some awards. Like in 2011 people said Kaino was robbed, but that does not mean he was or not. In any case Matfield and Burger were great in their prime, and they are still good now. 

 Fourie Du Preez was robbed in 2009.
This logic is beyond stupid. That was the past, we are currently in 2014.

 Yes it is a flawed logic. Were not talking about the past. No one is trying to doubt how good they were 9-10 years ago. But currently they are past their prime. So trying to compare 2005 Matfield or Burger to 2014 Matfield or Burger is pointless. 

 I agree with Shezza and 3ku1 here - to compare past performances - especially those of  5 and more years ago with their performances in 2014 is a joke in bad taste.   That assumes that players performances at their peak is not affected by advancing age.   Neither of the three players mentioned this year performed on the same level as they did in the years they were nominated.   
If for instance Steyn was to be nominated for his performances since his return from France - it should be for the Worst Player of the Year on Test and Super 15 level.     

 On the contrary these players are among the greats of the game. Nobody is suggesting they are at their peak, although in Matfields case, I see little change. But are they better than 21 year olds with no experience? You betcha....which is why Richie a 2 time IRB player of the year is also still in a leadership role.And why Dan Carter a 2005 winner would walk back into the NZ team if fully fit. And why Wilkinson was a certainty until his body failed.

Mozart
None of the players mentioned by you are up to the stahdard they used to be - definitely not Matfield - but you cannot "see" that because you do not want to see it.   
Johnnie Wilkinson gave up international rugby years ago and kept on playing club ruugby - which is definitely not as demanding as  test rugby.
When is Carter going to be fully fit?  He has had a few odd games since his return from his sabattical and is constantly on the injury list.   Has his body failed him?   
Experience means nothing really - it is only an issue if  the required level of performance is maintained.     If an experienced player and an inexperienced player are under consideration and both performs on an equal basis - then the experienced player must be given preference.
Back to Matfield - he never was a physical player and constantly moonlighted in the backline - where he caused more disruption than added value.   He still is and since the Tight 5 of the Springboks are weaker than they used to be because of Jannie du Plessis in particular - the consequences are not acceptable. 

Mike, that is not what Moz is saying, he said that they are NOT at their peak, but even so, they are better than the younger players. 
As for our scrum, against the AB's and Aus it was fine, not so much against Arg, but then again, the Argie scrum walked all over everyone this year. Having said that, Jannie is lazy as hell and does nothing outside the scrum, so he must go, but this comment is directed more at your opinion on Matfield. 

 Matfiled is a con artist supreme. Anybody who thinks a guy three kg heaview than brussouw isa monster scrummager needs to sit down quietly and think again. All credit to beast for holding up against nz. However put a real lock behing him and he will gain the ascendancy.MAtfiled isa good lineout man but in reality how much does he achieve. How many steal per matc etc. He takes his ball and occasionaly will make a steal . hardly worth shouting about as other genuine locks do the same. He si a one trick pony.
His tackle count will always be high as he moonlights alot out in the abckline and makes a fair ammoutof cover tackles - very few of which are offensive in nature as he usually goes back yards.He has been an uymitigated disaster. Due to the weakening of our tight 5 - becomes atight 4 - we have beefed up our loose trio to compensate. This is the rong way round. Get your tight 5 right and then get the bvalance of your loose trio right.
In the recent test against  nz we had Jannie (not good outside the scum), matfiled and ou pa as the sub par players. Dispite that we still had parity or an edge over the wee abs. Select a decent Bok pack and we should win regulary against them.
It would be nice if ou snapster  would realise that Francois Louw at 29 is hardly too old. 

 And Matfield...

 Bluebok
Says Mozart.   But is that really so?   Is his assessments realistic?   When you look at the performances of players like Willem Alberts, Bakkies Bo0tha and Gruthro Steenkamp are they still better than the younger players.   Statisticallythey are loafers that produces very little and play on reputation.   The statistics are clear - but that could be misleading if the actual performance on the field of play shows a different scenario.  However there is NO evidence that they do perform saisfactorily - so they are not better than youngrplayers.
If it depends on Mozart - the average age of the Springbok team would be well above 30 years of age.   If they were not injured his fvoured scrummies would have been Fourie du Preez and Pienaar.   He would and does favour  Jacques Fourie ahead of Serfontein and Wllem Alberts ahead of Marcel Coetzaa.   Jannie is in his owne words his "national treasure"
According to him no younger player ever performs well - he carried on about Sefontein and reinach like it is unbelievable and does not mind to misrepresent what happened on the field of play if he can get them to be blamed for things going wrong.   He sees constant deficiencies in the younger players and no deficiencies in the over 30 players.   I have learne done thing - I take his player evluations not with a pinch of salt - but with a whole bag of the stuff.   
In essense there are older players who performs well enough - but there are also serious failures amongst some of the older players in the Springbok squad.        .    

On the contrary. I was the first poster to assert  Pollard was the Bok flyhalf of the future, and together with the estimable Matey I made the point Morne had to make way for him after his blunder.

I am totally happy with Willemse as a Bok candidate. I think Senatla is a mega talent who could find his way onto the Bok bench next year. Likewise Thomas du Toit.
The fact that I think Goosen lacks guts, Reinach lacks smarts and Stepfontein lacks pace doesn't mean I wouldn't want them to have those commodities. Right now, however, I can't see any signs of it.
Of the three I have most hope for Steppie. He is the youngest and a real trier. The expression on his face when Smith handed him off spoke  volumes....it was a look of agony. Players who feel their responsibilities are always better in my view. It's a pity about the pace.

 No you weren't, Dave was plain and simple.

Prove it.

 Mozart
You wrote about athe inexplicable mistake made by Morne Steyn after he was replaced - and your forecast of a future role for Pollard was only from 2016.   After the Argentina tests you came up with a story that Morne won the tests for South Africa implying that he must ply oin the rest of the RC rtests this year.  .  
Insofar as your forecast about Pollard is concerned - he must wait until after the next WC.    In the meantime Morne Steyn - and according to you Francois Steyn must take preference.   The future role as potential Springbok for Pollard was made long before that and dates back to the 2012 WC and the whole saga about his contracting by the Bulls at the end of 2012 and was covered in comments made at the time by Beeno, Dave and myself.   You were not even aware of a player by the name of Pollard at the time.   Because he was seen as having a bright future his games in 2013 played at University Cup level and Vodacom Cup level was disappointing and both Dave and I was honest enough to comment on the actual situation.   You now seize on those comments as being proof that we ran down Pollard.   At the time he deserved what was said about him.   
What happened next was that you saw him coming from the bench in a Super 15 game this year and scoring a try.   At the time you were in the normal state maligning Goosen and Lambie and came up with the idea that prefereably Francois Steyn - and if not Morne Steyn - should be the Springbok flyhalf and that Pollard can be potentially considered in 2016 - ie after the next WC.   That kind of forecast is not a suggestion that Plollard would be aa definite and it was never suggested by you that he should be selected this year.   
Howevr, since the "inexplicable" mistake by Morne - and after Meyer left him out of the subsequent tests - you story about Pollard changed.   By the way that was not an "inexplicable"  mistake - it happened 7 times in 9 tests  played in the RC and subsequent tests - so it was a fairlyregular mistake made by Morne.  
Now back to Lambie and Goosen.   Your manufacturing of disinformation to discredit those two players are coming back to hurt you badly.   Lambie was excellent when he came from the bench in both the latest two tests - even though you came up with an inexplicable myth that the conversion of the 55 meter penalty in the AB tests  was not a crunch kick.   If Morne or Francois  converted that kick we would have had many  pages of praise singing and allegations that they won the test for SA on this site - but because it was Lambie it had to be down-played as unimportant.
 Goosen had two excellent games for Racing Metro - even though you and your sidekick Ceradunce try and make it out as insiginificant.   If Morne Steyn ever had the games Goosen had for Racing Metro, you would write pages about it - but in the case of Goosen it was insignificant.
Your main support at flyhalf for 2014 and 2015 - Francois Steyn went off to Japan and of one thing oe can be certain - without support of Jake White he won't make the Suiper 15 team of the Sharks next year - while Morne Steyn (your second choice at flyhalf for 2014 and 2015)  - although available -  was not selected for Stade Francais even on the bench.
You claims you made of discovering Pollard is really ridiculous and based entirely on the issue that you were writing crap about Goosen and Lambie and saw Pollard as a potential to use instead of the two players mentioned. 
Your forecast on selection of younger players are more based on your actual dislike of other candidates than your appreciation of performance by the individual player concerned.   That is why your forecasts in the ma in is meaningless and useless.  
 
         

 "Goosen had two excellent games for Racing Metro - even though you and your sidekick Ceradunce try and make it out as insiginificant."

Have you watched both gam es?

 Ceradyne
I did not watch the games - they were not on SA TV - but Shezza and Dave  did and I also studied the Stats on ESPN and am satoified with their version of what happened.   Sorry but the Racing Metro Reject you called him is backfiring on you.   You really are incredibly ignorant about performance eveluation.
By the way - any further news about Morne Steyn's potential departure from Stade Francais.   I noticed that he was available for the Club this past weekend and he was not in the team - neither was he on the bench.  Is he being frozen out?
   

 ESPN stats means bugger-all and the rest is hearsay. I haven't watched any of the games this weekend. I only watched a bit of the Blue Bulls game. I was away in your idol, Tim Swiel's town of birth.

 Ceradyne
Hope you had a nice time this past weekend.
I am sorry to say - but ESPN stats are not based on hearsay - it is based on what happened during the game.   There are elements you can argue about - such as the quality of tackles made - but in general the stats will confrim essentially the performance of players.  The people who completely disregard stats are doing so because of prejudice against players or to protect their favourites.   Basically stats is what caused Jake Whoite's downfall in the case of the Sharks - of that you can be sure.    
Incidentally Swiel is not my idol - he was excellent as a school boy and also for the WP Under 21 team last year - but had virtually no opportunity to develop further on higher level.   We will see how he develops next year.
Any news about Morne Steyn's potential departure from Stade Francais?     

 "I am sorry to say - but ESPN stats are not based on hearsay......."


That part negates the nee d to read the rest of your drivel.

 Ceradyne
Sorry -  I have ben very polite with you - but you are not in return - "as kak prraat 'n siekte was het jy ebola.  Mostinstituions used stats.   ESPN is just one of them and they are based on a compueterised version of the game which allows for computer generation of data.   If that is hearsay - you must be 100% living in the 19th century - before computer evolement.  
I have heard drivel before - but what you said is indescribebabl e idiocy.       

I have asked you before. Why do we only have to be polite when it suits you?

You do not have to try and school me about the use and sources of stats. I know more about it than you would like to think. Your problem is that you do not read things properly and then jump on the band wagon. I have said that your remark about ESPN stats nit being hearsay negates the need to read the rest of your drivel.

No do yourself a favour and read what I have said, particularly the hearsay issue. Then revisit your remark and then we can take it from there. Feel free if you are still struggling to understand where I am coming from.

 Ceradyne
I did noit read it properly - but what you wrote is utter drivel in any event.   You are trying to get out of the whole you dug for yourself with your continuousdrivel about Goosen.  What i can see from the stats is excellent performance.   That is a fact.  It was confirmed by people who have watched the game - and there is no reason to doubt their information.   You have not seen the game - you said so yourself - but you go on to discredit Goosen's performance.  
That is the Mozart way of doing things - in other words based on prejudice.   Sorry -but you are in a serious hole dug by yourself and now try to get out of it.   To make matters worse for you here is the ESPN stats on Goosen's last two games - that is after you called him the Racing Metro Reject:
Goosen1/01610/28/1210116309/00/000/0
Goosen1/197/24/85113225/30/000/0
Since you made a complete fool of yourself - enjoy it.   Racing Metro is not about to dispose of him as you suggested - bearing in mind the above. .   
Now onto Morne - any news about his potential departure from Stade Francais - he may just end up with R acing Metro as the back-up flyhalf for Goosen.

 Wonderrful how thr trolls on this site - the three Morons - has gone silent about the performances of Goosen.   Have they been shocked into silence or are they still trying to get out of the hole they dug for themselves.   One must accept that they are rugby ignorant - so it will take a while before they are abck with their drivel.