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Bok Match Day Starting Team & Key Bench Players

Started by sharkbok16 REPLIES673 VIEWS· 20 Apr 2019, 18:13
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,251 posts
20 Apr 2019, 18:13
#1
20 Apr 2019, 18:13#1

The tight five should be fine- Marx, Eztebeth, Dejager, Beast, Kitchoff, Sadie


For the remainder of the team

6 Francois Louw (Past his best- but the only specialist fetcher)

7. Kolisi (has to be a place somewhere for him for transformation. He can leave in the 50th minute, Vermeulen to captain). Steph Dutoit on the bench- start at 50th minute.

8. Duane Vermeulen (Past his best, but is still effective at the ruck, and as a ball carrier)

9. Faff, Reinach (Jantjies from Stormers?)

10. Pollard - (Jantjies possibly after 50th minute - and shift Pollard to center)

12. Serfontein  - Esterhuizen (anyone except Delande)

13. AM /Jessica Kriel 

14. Dyanti (Dubious under the high ball - but a good finisher)

15. Willie Leroux/ Kolbe

11. Nkosi/ Mampimpi


Probably not a team that could win the world cup, but there is not much better. The depth of young players each year appears worse - other than tight forwards.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2019, 18:24
#2
20 Apr 2019, 18:24#2

Another nut case team suggestion - hell I thought people look at performance before they come up with BS.

Louw and Vermeulen  LMAO

Esterhuizen - a loser if ever there was one - LMAO

Fat Fransie - are you nuts   -  LMAO

Am and Esterhuizen at center - the opponents must LTAO

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,251 posts
20 Apr 2019, 19:54
#3
20 Apr 2019, 19:54#3
If you can suggest replacements? Or is it just a team made of imaginary players.
For the back row, this has to include players that contribute at the breakdown- not just a turn over here and there. Ball protection and slowing down opposition ball. Louw gets involved in lots of rucks, as does Vermeulen. 

Your bias to older players make you ignore the real stats, even the fantasy stats that you hold so dear.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Apr 2019, 20:14
#4
20 Apr 2019, 20:14#4

Ok  - Louw was useless last year on test level already,  Vermeulen plays for 30 minutes in matches and then runs out of steam.    be it as it may there was a rumour once that Alberts was good at rucks - but he never made a turnover on test level and his defense was putrid,    There is more to rugby than just ball protection and recovery anyway,   One cannot play under-performing players - useless in all aspects of the game based on reputation that they are good in rucking,   One has to look at present performance and both Louw and Vermeulen is seriously pace-deficient.   Like happened in the case of Alberts - both by the time they get to breakdown points the ball is already gone and the next reakdown in progress, 

The problem with Esterhuizen and Am has been clearly illustrated when they play together on test level.   Esterhuizen is too pace-deficient to play at center,   One ioncident today is just another example of how a faster player just ran past him without him being able to even attempt a tackle.   Slightly deficient in rugby thinking - all combined makes for ugly reading.   

I do not know what to suggest at present - there are a few key players to consider and then find alternatives to others,   

Props     -      Kitshof,  Beast, Malherbe and Sadie 

Locks    -      Etzebethm De Jager and one of  Snyman/Scickerling/Wiese

Loosies  -     Du Toit at 7 - we need to look for alternatives 

Scrumhalf -   De Klerk, Reinach

Flyhalf      -   Pollard

Centerss   -  Kriel, De Allende and Serfomntein

In the case of the wings I would prefer DH van der Merwe in the squad

I do not think Erasmus would le ave out Willemse from the squad.     

       


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Apr 2019, 20:27
#5
20 Apr 2019, 20:27#5
Pretty much the same team that has the Boks at a 50% win ratio for the last year. Great, let's have more of that....not!!
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,251 posts
20 Apr 2019, 20:43
#6
20 Apr 2019, 20:43#6

@Clevermike, 

I forgot Serfotein- and now added them I have removed Frans Stain. Serfontein also has experience with Pollard and Jessica Kriel - so he should combine well despite not playing for Rassie yet. 

Also, Reinach- but we have heard of players being brilliant in the English pub club league- then fail miserably at test level.

You mention thought needs to happen at loose forward. You can think for months, it is not going to change that  never has the cupboard been so bare for the Boks in the loose forward area

Louw and Vermeulen at least contribute to the ruck. 

The Diesel twins are worse than Alberts at the ruck. Vermeulen was the man of the series against England last year- but you are blinded because he is older. 

You would rather have a younger player that will never be international standard like the Diesel Twins.

You only have one flyhalf

DuhLande- the proven cart horse at centre. Carthuizen is bad news, but he is better than Delande 

Do you want DH Van der Merwe to play on both wings?

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Apr 2019, 21:19
#7
20 Apr 2019, 21:19#7

D'Allende is no slower than Serfontein and remains our best 12.

A lot of hogwash is spoken about this player and Du Toit. 



SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
21 Apr 2019, 07:48
#8
21 Apr 2019, 07:48#8
Serfontein can actually defend and pass, reminds me of Conrad Smith. 
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
21 Apr 2019, 08:02
#9
21 Apr 2019, 08:02#9
Kolbe will also be in the squad, he's playing phenomenally well for Toulouse and can be a gamebreaker for us. Size isn't an issue for him, he's in a league abundant with giant Polynesian outside backs and is dealing with them defensively from what I've seen, not to mention outplaying them too. 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
21 Apr 2019, 08:37
#10
21 Apr 2019, 08:37#10

If Carthuizen is such bad news, why do you have in the Bok mix?

Surely he should be gotten rid of?

Anyone with a logical brain would do that .. but not you, hey SharkShit?

We have much better options at 12.

Kolbe is a highly talented player and will tear many a bigger back a new asshole. I would replace Willie with him in a heartbeat.

Kolisi is not worthy of Bok colours. He is useless. Always has been.

Dan Du Prez is by far the best 8 we have. He is consistent and brings a lot of grunt to the pack. He should be put in and left there.

Vermeulen is past his best ... by some way. He should retire or go back to Japan to play pretend rugby.

Louw? ... haaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaa!!!

Fats Fransie? ... haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaaaa!!

SharkShit ... rather stick to posting video clips. The less you have to say the better.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Apr 2019, 11:44
#11
21 Apr 2019, 11:44#11
SB
It is hard to discuss anything with  people who do not understand the game of rugby - or for that matter cricket at all.
Lets take for example cricket,   For years  there was a hate campaign on this site against Quinton de Kock  and the question I why?   The reason - he replaced Graeme Smith as ODI opening batsman.    This year that changed - but last year the ideal was that De Kock should be replaced by Klaasen,    This  has after five years suddenly started to change this year.   But a  flood of criticism will start again.    So what happens now,   This year De Kock is ibn the top 5 of batsmen in the IPL -  AB is definitely not even close.    Every commentator  makes him the key batsman for Mumbai Indians,    He made top scores at high strike  rates ibn eery game he played in on both test and lower levels.
Now lets go to rugby,    Here the attacks have ben constant on the coach.   Fact is Meyer and Coetzee left the squad in chaos and the only way Erasmus could start off with is to include a string of Super Rugby and NH club players players to determine where real players of value.    He started off experimenting with players to find out whether they are up to test standard,    He basically used the following tests to develop the squad,    This happened in four tests and in all four tests the Springboks lost.   This fact is never, ever recognized by some of our members.   Fact is the poor team beat the AB's in Wellington - something Meyer never achieved - that is always criticized. 
So who are the player targets for attack.   It is quite obvious - the list include Du Toit, De Jager, De Allende and  Kriel.   There is no relationship between reality and the prejudice the fools on site display.   The myths include things like the following: -
*     Du Toit should not be in the squad at all - and idiocy reigns supreme,   He hogs balls - he plays on the wing -  he missed tackles and make poor tackles to take up his tally in tackles.  This kind of tripe while Du Toit is world wide regarded as one of the top players in the game.  That is irrelevant since it is based on hype.   When Marx fouled up the throw-ins in the English test in November  last year - even though  Marx admitted it himself - Du Toit got blamed for the problem.    
*     De Jager is one of the top locks around - unfortunately he had a major injury problem last year and the physically deficient Mostert suddenly became the supreme player - who should play either at lock or no 7 ahead of  Du Toit.    There was a serious problem in driving mauls involving especially driving mauls - which in most tests last year went off the radar because of lock deficiency.     When Mostert made glaring mistakes in defense it is ignored and the muyth that he is a top lock is spouted continuously on site,    
*     The story about De Allende and Kriel is the same.  De Allende cannot pass balls and cannot off-load balls.. So lets look at the last two Super Rugby matches he played in:-
        Passed the ball      =   18        Carried the ball     =   19       Territory gained     =   86        Clean breaks         =     3        Defenders beaten  =     8        Off-loads               =    2        Tackles                 =    15        Tackles missed    =      2        Tries scored         =      2                The above are factual - but is totally ignored  by he De Allende hate campaign groupies on site,    What the hell else  do you want from the player.   Want to replace him with of all eople Esterhuizen?    Are you farcical or what.
*     Kriel is under similar attack by the same  members.   He is the best outside center available - but is according to some totally useless.
In essence  what have we got here.   A group of members who  totally ignore performance and are basically ignorant and prejudiced.      It is a pain to see the same members ignore fact and carry on with their crazy attacks on players where no attacks should be made.     We had the Plank - the man with the thousand user names - who left us when eh was exposed as the biggest BSter on site.    
One wonders whether some members ever think before they write BS on site,                             
       .     
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
21 Apr 2019, 13:55
#12
21 Apr 2019, 13:55#12

Again you conveniently take DA's last two games, where he did quite well and which includes the big win over the Rebels. So let's see how Esterhuizen compares in his last two games - both of which the Sharks lost and which includes the Jaguares rout.

DA left / AE right

Passed the ball      =   18 / 27
        Carried the ball     =   19 / 29
       Territory gained     =   86 / 118
        Clean breaks         =     3 / 4
        Defenders beaten  =     8 / 7
        Off-loads               =    2 / 2
        Tackles                 =    15 / 14
        Tackles missed    =      2 / 3
        Tries scored         =      2 / 0
        Try assist    =      0 / 0
Tries scored being the big difference, otherwise not much in it. Now let's make it the last 3 games so that at least Esterhuizen also gets a good win as part of his stats, just like Damian.

DA left / AE right
Passed the ball      =   35 / 45
        Carried the ball     =   32 / 46
       Territory gained     =   121 / 171
        Clean breaks         =     5 / 6
        Defenders beaten  =     9 / 13
        Off-loads               =    4 / 5
        Tackles                 =    19 / 18
        Tackles missed    =      4 / 4
        Tries scored         =      2 / 0
        Try assist    =               0 / 1
So, other than the two tries, the stats don't indicate any clear advantage to DA. Runs per defender beaten, meters per run, all is about dead square. You keep trying to tell people how hopeless Esterhuizen is, yet his numbers are right on par with those of your hero. So either your hero is about as crap as Esterhuizen, or Esterhuizen is far better than you want to admit.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Apr 2019, 14:46
#13
21 Apr 2019, 14:46#13
Face it Allende was total rubbish up until the point where Houwing wrote the article on him, saying he was playing himself out of the Bok 12 jersey. Then suddenly he perked up against ordinary opposition. He is a lazy player (like Lomp) and once things are secure he will revert to trotting around the park. And I repeat my challenge, in thirty plus tests can his supporters name one instance where his play lifted the Boks to a win. He is dead wood. Nice analysis Pakie.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,251 posts
21 Apr 2019, 16:13
#14
21 Apr 2019, 16:13#14
I also forgot about Kolbe. Looking at the performance of Damien Willemse this year - I would prefer that Kolbe is the backup to Willie Leroux at fullback. 
He is a better utility player and may even be more reliable at flyhalf . 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Apr 2019, 17:25
#15
21 Apr 2019, 17:25#15

Kolbe sis picked up and held in the air like a little doll - whenever he is tackled - and the consequence is a turnover,   Nice player suited to play sevens.   

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,251 posts
21 Apr 2019, 17:46
#16
21 Apr 2019, 17:46#16
Kolbe is more physical than Willie Leroux, despite being lighter. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
22 Apr 2019, 03:29
#17
22 Apr 2019, 03:29#17

My only concern with Kolbe at 15 is his contention for the high ball. He is too short for my liking, but the rest of his play more than makes up for it. I like him more on the wing. What does he play mostly at Tolouse?...Wiki says FB?

— END OF THREAD —

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