Bok newbie team

If we had to select a Bok team out of non Boks or scarcely Boks....this might be the consensus:

Taute

Jordaan               +

JJ                        -

Surfontein            -

van den Heever

Goosen                -

van Zyl                0

Kitshoff                    

Cooper

Coenie                 0

Lood                    0

Stephanie            +

Labooschagne      0

Kolisi

Botha

+ is a positive indicator for test rugby

0 is neutral

- is a negative, either because of play or physicality

I'm open to more suggestions and changes. But I'd like to get some commitment from the younger is better brigade. Just to see what the hit rate is.

I'm betting on none of the backs, although I like SP. In the pack I am positive on Coenie, basis his game against France. Strauss is a fine understudy and Arno Botha looked good early last year.  I'm a bit uncertain about Stephanie, after a bunch of mediocre performances he came good against WP....fluke? I'm not sure. Lood looks like the big man choice, but is he test class, time will tell.

Dave I have made most of your changes, but Willie is an incumbent after the NH tour. Jordaan gets the wing because I also have to accomodate the Oom. I have put Kolisi in to satisfy you, but CJ Stander is languishing on some European bench....so he is not an appropriate test case.

I shudder to think of this team playing for us.....but let's see.

 This again is one of Mozart's posts without meaning or context.   He uses a mixture of younger established Springboks and mix them up with some players who showed promise early - but did not live up to it.

Over the past year nobody said for example Jordaan is suitable for Springbok selection - I said he must prove himself in Super 15 last year, which he failed to do.  So he is thrown in for some stupid reason or another. 

The logic is beyond me.  Coenie had more caps than Le Roux - yet Coenie is on the list and Le Roux is not.   Kolbe has never been mentioned once by anybody I know of as a Springbok contender.  Most people believe he is more of a Sevens player than a 15 man team player.    

Van Zyl came from the bench once for the Springboks and is sometimes mentioned as a candidate for the future - but others have similarly been mentioned.

I do not find it wrong to mention Malherbe - he is a future test player that will remain as a test tight head prop for years to come.

That loosie combination would be inappropriate - but is likely to be better than any combination which includes the low work rate Willem Alberts.     

 Mozart

Always publishing rubbish.  One missed tackle on Freuan had nothing to do with the Jordaan issue - his defence for the rest of that game and even the season has been very good.   I am not a one incident junkie like you.  I was not happy with his attacking play on average last year and that is the fact of the matter. 

I am not about to deal with rubbish contributions - there is no way it is my team - I have and will not support jalf of the players you listed there. 

Where I believe some of them would be miles better than the incumbents - I have written about it elsewhere. already.       

Sun Tzu

Really - is that incident the only one I have referred to about Morne Steyn?  Surely not - I commented on it when you wanted to prove that Morne had nothing to blame for in that try - which obviously is BS.

Lets try the following-

*  Missed tackle ratio of 19,4% in the CR and 20% in the EOYT

*  Thoughtless robotic play according to instruction

*  Deficient and aimless so-called strategic kicks

*  Missed often to find touch with penalty kicks

*  Avoiding of contact by virtually no attacking play himself

*   Bench selection for his Club side because of real proven deficiencies.

Positive :  Good kicking at goal in 2013 - flopped badly in 2012

All of those happened repeatedly over the past two years and if mostly involved at least more than 5 cases each.   That is no one-incident hunky thinking.  

Sun Tzu

Video evidence is fine - your garbled interpretations of what happened during the games as to specific incidents - is a joke in bad taste.   Start reporting straightforward and unbiased comments and the scenario may be interesting and worth consideration.  Trying to exonerate certain players and blame others are not worth anything.

Nothing has been "debunked" - facts can never be debunked - what has been debunked is your fairy tales about Morne Steyn in that specific case.

Lets face facts - only people without any knowledge of rugby and backline play would promote Morne Steyn as Springbok flyhalf - he really is sub-par.        

Sun Tzu

You are the one that constantly wrote about me knowing nothing about rugby - so it was just a jab in return.   Am sorry about that abd hope you are not upset as you seems to be.

There is one thing that we will never agree on and that is Morne Steyn;s performances as a flyhalf.   You think he is the best flyhalf around - I think he is sub-par, a bonus to opposing teams and other than his kicking at goal not a real flyhalf.    

There are always players that individual members of this site will support - while other members are negative about them.   The best way is to prove physically and statistically that they are good propositions and not find fault with other potential players through wishful thinking.  

Try and think of the Springbok team as a national team - not as a Blue Bulls team in green jerseys.       

I believe when a player is unable to complete matches and looks like he is going to break down at any minute, it is a performance indicator. Goosen was constantly on the deck being attended to, without being involved in any really heavy collisions.

As for JJ and Serfontein they were playing behind the stronger pack. The Bulls and Sharks were pretty much even in possession and territory....they could make nothing happen. And Fransie dominated Serfontein in the collisions. Jordaan if anything looked faster than JJ and easily hunted him down when JJ was put into the outside gap. If that's our Bok test pairing we are in trouble. Centres have to "see" the opportunity....these two see nothing. So week in, week out during the tests we were told the opportunities weren't there for JJ. But that's because he doesn't create them.

 Shezza

Mozart makes mountains from molehills - especially if he does not like players.   U think that Goosen had a reasonable game - and now suddenly everyone is crying "injured again".  I gained the impression that he picked up a few bumps and got treated for that - his replacement also does not seem all that important.  Nobody knows the nature and extent of the "injury" and there is nothing in the media as yet about it. 

I think that every player makes the mistake at times to use the wrong technique in tackling and that is what likely happened in the case of Serfontein.   However, for the next three years you will hear continuously about that incident from Mozart.

I do not like one-off incidents to be used as carrer defining - but some do in the case  where they do not like players.  

Both Serfontein and Engelbrecht was not really in reasonable form - but they got a rotten service from their  halfbacks and things may hopefully turn around in future.      

 Saffex

I know you want to defend Engelbrecht and I have sympathy with you in the relevant regard but it is always better to stick to facts.  Have a look at the following-

Jordaan was given "acres of space"  in the case of the try scored by him - but for the rest he did create space for himself - he made 4 clean line breaks and beat 3 defenders.   Anyone who looked at the game with open eyes would have seen that.

So calm down and accept reality,   Nobody is writing Engelbrecht off - he was just outplayed by a thinking player yesterday and could easily improve next round.