MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Nov 2017, 15:19#1
Here’s how I rated the Boks out of 10 at Stade de France:
Andries Coetzee: 5
Mostly blunder-free; little to no dazzle. That could be a copy-and-paste from so much of his 2017 Test season … and once again, it is.
Dillyn Leyds: 5.5
Best of the still fragile back three on the night, I thought. Showed good composure and thrust for his first-half try, and grafted solidly enough. Loses a bit, though, for one surrender of ball in contact and some high-ball hesitancy.
Jesse Kriel: 5
Long-term solution at No 13? I still don’t think so, based on evidence this year. Badly at fault for missed tackle in lead-up to first French try. Still, better second half and good collection of tricky ball for his own, important try.
Francois Venter: 6.5
Little that was genuinely cutting-edge, but also a vast improvement in this fixture on ailing Damian de Allende at inside centre. Commendable work-rate and stamina, and at least a desire to be constructive.
Courtnall Skosan: 4.5
Slight improvement on Ireland nightmare … but that’s also not saying terribly much. One electric bust-out, but still too defensively charitable as well.
Handre Pollard: 5
Hmm, funny old game from him. Mixed the rank bad – poor place-kicking, some fluffed options – with more valuable qualities. Do not under-estimate, please, how much his directness sucked in defenders, giving greater space in wider areas for the tourists.
Ross Cronje: 5
Boks still short of a proper, game-managing maestro in this key berth but at least Cronje was that bit more urgent and confident than in his disastrous Dublin date. Box kicks usually better-weighted here.
Duane Vermeulen: 6.5
Not quite vintage “Thor” yet … but on this evidence, getting there! What mattered most was that the Boks had one of their iron men and leadership figures back, and he was certainly a presence. That he won a 70th-minute turnover showed his conditioning standards right now were better than expected, too, I’d say …
Siya Kolisi: 6
Some inspired surges in wide channels, a role he’s almost always good at. Made yards with the odd pick and go, as well. Conceded penalty for side entry.
Francois Louw: 6
Looked so much happier in his favourite slot of open-side flank after that little spell as an eighth-man. Played right to the ball and showed good endurance doing that.
Lood de Jager: 6.5
Topped the Bok tackle count, according to some stats score-sheets. Very willing at close quarters, and stole a French lineout too. Leaked one “off feet” penalty.
Eben Etzebeth: 7.5
Maybe Boks overdo the bash-it-up-as-first-receiver thing with him? That said, led from front for unerring, awesome physicality as the front lock. Also engaged quite well with ref Nigel Owens.
Wilco Louw: 6.5
Almost a full match – again – and that said much about the rookie’s desire, and promise. Rock-solid as scrum anchor and robust clean-outs.
Malcolm Marx: 7.5
Had gone off boil a bit in all rugby since Newlands heroics against NZ, but this was more like a return to A-league standards. Enormous over the ball at rucks, with two or three turnovers including one penalty win. Clattering physical presence, though a couple of lineouts were botched.
Tendai Mtawarira: 6
Some of his drives were big, leg-pumping ones. Staunch shift broadly, though gave away a scrum penalty.
Standout substitute:
Steven Kitshoff: 6
So often the first Bok sub if to be introduced if injuries haven’t played a role, and here he was on after 52 minutes. Continued his habit, too, of getting hands dirty almost immediately.
*Follow our chief writer on Twitter: @RobHouwing
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Nov 2017, 15:33#2
Lot’s of good stuff from Houwig. I would add the following:
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Coetzee doesn’t give himself the little pause that allows the 15 to see the field and possible support lines...he is too frantic.
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Lleyds is the better of the two wings, but still they are both going to disappear against the top 5 teams.
..
Venter and Pollard did get us over the advantage line and did make their tackles 5 metres upfield from Jantjies/Allende the week before. Venter is better at 12 where his lack of pace isn’t so punishing.
..
Cronje ‘loads’ his pass which takes half a step away from the backline.
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Nice game by Louw, this kid has a big future if he stays healthy.
..
Etzebeth was massive. Those runs wore down the Frogs and they were brave....they assigned a bunch of brick outhouses to chop him at the knees and he kept coming.
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With Vermeulen our loosies were much better balanced....not a great loosie trio, but competent. Kolisi’s main attributes are ball in hand.
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
19 Nov 2017, 19:04#3
Indeed some nice points in the article.
Well it seems clear that Kriel needs dropping. With Pollard taking the ball up nicely it would seem obvious that a guy like JSVR running off his shoulder is our best bet in that combo right now. But who outside of that? If I could choose I'd have Odendaal pairing with JSVR. I'd then have Ismael on the wing, with Coetzee and Nkosi/Combrink as his back three partners. Unless the Boks revert to more Lions players, in which case things change.
Cronje? I felt that the Boks cleared out a lot quicker yesterday and he was found wanting very often. There was a good deal of quick ball wasted. He wasn't spectacular by any means and if that's what we'll be getting from him the n maybe Paige might be a better option for the two remaining games. Paige still seem fresh and snappy while Cronje's long season seems to be showing. Granted his kicking, and the kick chase was better yesterday.
Lood seemed to get the "work rate" message. We're seemingly healthy at lock for now.
Our loosies should be healthy too considering the stocks. Can't wait for Dan and JL to cement their places with Whitely, Kriel, Kolosi, Duane all in the mix too. Am I the only one is constantly impressed by the Du Press bros? They just look like they have that skill that comes from always trying to one up your siblings with things you can do with the ball.
I hope Marx and Kitshoff both have long careers with the Boks. The final spot...not sure :/
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Nov 2017, 19:54#4
The above ratings is largely a load of BS. The following in the whole matc and seen from all perspectives are 4 and lowerL-
Skosan, Leyds, Kriel, Pollard, Cronje and Vermeulen
If you do not believe me go and look at the stats of the players concerned reflects under-performance. In essence take for instance the comparison made by Mozart or Pollard. He says that Pollard was better than Jantjies in attacking the gain line and in better distribution, but what they miss out is the poorer defense and goal kicking. Where there is a similarity is the poor kicking game. Take for instance the example of where the Springboks succeeded in making a rare turn-over in possession and all Pollard did was to make an aimless kick handing possession straight back to the French
As to Vermeulen you are best advised top take a careful look at his stats. Hwe was the least effective loosie on the field of play and did squad as to any real contribution to the gam. Tios presence and orgaisation we heard before and the reault was detrimental to enhanced performance. .
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Nov 2017, 01:00#5
So Mike here are the numbers for Pollard vs Jantjies last week:
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H PollardFH 14 24 8 44 0 2 0 0
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E JantjiesFH 13 15 3 11 0 0 0 0
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44 metres for Pollard/ 11 for Jantjies....2 defenders beaten vs none.
.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Nov 2017, 02:41#6
Mozart
Where are the rest of the stats? Why is the issue of goal kicking ignored? What about the defensive part?
To compare Pollard's performance to that of Jantjies is setting the bar very, very low. Because Jantjies was a flop does not mean that we can say Pollard was better without taking account of Pollard's own deficiencies.
Pollard may come right - but his defense is atrocious and was similar in the WC tests in 2015. He clearly is not in form yet and may come right next year through proper coaching by Mitchell - at this stage he is a stand-in player in the absence of other competitive options. If he does not improve I think he will fade out of contention.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Nov 2017, 04:59#7
Pollard made 10 of his 12 tackle attempts. He added a lot of solidity to the channel
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Nov 2017, 07:06#8
As much stability as Mugabe has done in Zimbabwe. I think there was a correction in the defensive stats from what I saw originally - but that is definitely not the only part of his game that I think was not up to standard. He was on and off in his decisionamaking and not very effective at all.
I hope he comes right under proper coaching and that proper game time and coaching would help.
The fact that the Springboks beat France by 1 point is over-rated and not at all convincing. There were too many passengers in that team with Pollard included. I think he missed a total of 8 points with goal kicking mishaps.
PAPakie
Captain17,321 posts
20 Nov 2017, 14:44#9
Pollard was solid on defense and took on the line well. His goal kicking though was poor and he was guilty of too many poorly executed kicking options in play. I'll still stick with him though. God knows we've stuck with Jantjies through how many mishaps, disasters and ho-hums.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Nov 2017, 14:46#10
Pakie
I am of the same opinion about Pollard - he has a lot to do before he is a decent flyhalf - could be making progress next year.