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Bok Player Ratings vs England 3rd test

Started by sharkbok16 REPLIES1,280 VIEWS· 23 Jun 2018, 19:41
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,255 posts
23 Jun 2018, 19:41
#1
23 Jun 2018, 19:41#1

The Boks looked ok in the first 40 minutes-  bar some poor play by individuals. The conditions were poor, but basic skills caused most of the problems.

England dominated the breakdown, increasingly more so as the game progressed. It was, however, individual errors that led to the Bok loss. Some players made minimal errors.
Rassie erred in not testing the third flyhalf. Jantjies was a liability.
The players should practice playing on wet fields - by creating crap conditions they expect in the Northern Hemisphere. 
My ratings including substitutes. 
1. Beast               6/10  Solid   
2. Steroid Boy     2/10   Not test standard. Maybe needs to juice up again. .3. Fat Malherbe - 3/10    Another liability. He struggles with basic balance.
4. RJ Snyman   4.5/10 A one-game wonder? He was ok- but a bit off the pace.
5.Mostert -   5.5/10 
6. Kolisi 4/10  
7. Stephanie 6.5/10
8. Vermeulen 6.5/10
9. Faff. 6/10. Was not given quality ball by his forwards. Was under heavy pressure
10 Jantjies 1/10. I have lost all faith in Jantjies.  

11 Dyanti- 7.5/10. Perhaps the best player for South Africa. Looked good on defence and attack
12 Esteruizen-  4/10 Not a good debut, but he was outside Jantjies
13  Jessy: 3.5/10. Buggered up a simple inside step and draw. This was a pivotal moment in the match
14  Nkosi - 6/10. Was solid and should have scored- but for the Jessy Kriel mess up
15 Gelant.  6/10 Took the ball well as a 2nd receiver and set up a good play that led to an easy try. I think he would be a better outside centre. He is physical enough and has good skills. 
----
Kitshoff            5/10   Schalk cant scrum, so it is not clear if Kitschoff or Dutoit was poor.
.Schalk              2/10 What the hell was this person doing on the pitch? He was always a poor scrummager, but his play around the pitch was even worse It would have been much better to have used even Ackers. He is no longer conditioned for this type of rugby. 
Thomas Dutoit  3.5/10   The scrum went worse when he got on, but might be due to having to prop up a pensioner
Notshe- 3.5/10

Pollard      5/10.  It was a bit of a nothing game from him, however, the game seemed to collapse around the time when the three substitutes were made.



CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2018, 20:03
#2
23 Jun 2018, 20:03#2

SB

Get real there was zero wrong with Malherbe scrumming and he did well outside of the scrum as well.   So you are talking tripe in his case.  He gets the same as Beast.

Faf gave away enough penalties through over-enthusiasm.   He cannot get more than 4 because of that.

Esterhuizen did squad in the game - bar missing nearly half of his tackle attempts.  Because of his poor defense I think a rating of 3,5  is appropriate.

Kriel was much better than Esterhuizen and to my mind justifies at least 5,5/10

Gelant started well under high balls and made the try of Kriel through a dribble kick.   However, he went sour later in the game and buggered up badly  4,5 to 5/10

I would give Esterhuizen another chance outside a proper flyhalf, but he has to do something to improve his defense.   When I warn members he has a defense problem most said I was mad - but he does have the defense problem I mentioned and he needs to get over it.

        

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2018, 20:03
#3
23 Jun 2018, 20:03#3

SB

Dupli cation

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2018, 20:03
#4
23 Jun 2018, 20:03#4

Duplication

        

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,255 posts
23 Jun 2018, 20:05
#5
23 Jun 2018, 20:05#5
I will watch the game again to confirm my ratings, but it seemed that many players played ok - or at the very least made minimal errors.  It was a few individuals that threw the game.  Jantjies was the worst on the day, Making three substitutes at the same time seemed to destabilise the Boks, as from that moment onwards England took the upper hand. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2018, 20:07
#6
23 Jun 2018, 20:07#6
Gelant........2 penalties and 2 turnovers was part of the problem. Much is made of his taking a few early high balls....they were uncontested....the tougher takes later in the game were spilled. The last spill led to the conclusive May try. We will continue with this guy no doubt, but we will regret it.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Jun 2018, 20:14
#7
23 Jun 2018, 20:14#7
The Kriel missed try opportunity is an absolute insight....he sprints up to Brown flat on, making it easy for Brown to hold his position......and then passes too early. A real center would have committed Brown with an early step inside, forcing him to turn his body to defend the inside avenue....and then passed the ball. Any decent high school centre could have scored Kriel's try. But I have to agree with Tokkie, Esterhozen was much worse...a clumsy, inept performance.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Jun 2018, 20:18
#8
23 Jun 2018, 20:18#8

Erasmus has apparently decided to give most squad members a chance to perform,  but there are members who does not deserve to be retained:-

The following has now had their chance and must be send packing:-

Jantjies, Gelant, Am, Rallepele, Brits

I would also suggest that they must look again at Van Rensburg and Vorster as centers since Esterhuizen w as seriously disappointing today.   However, he should get another chance outside a decent flyhalf. 



  

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
23 Jun 2018, 21:55
#9
23 Jun 2018, 21:55#9

We now also see how precariously this team is balanced. We have a few key game breakers in players like Faf, Vermeulen, Willie, Pollard and Marx. Take them out of the equation and the Boks look pretty ordinary.

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
23 Jun 2018, 22:19
#10
23 Jun 2018, 22:19#10

This is how Rob Houwing rate the Boks:

Warrick Gelant: 6

Shifted to wing with half an hour to go, but had looked encouraging at No 15 in the conditions. Safe under aerial ball, some clever stepping … and deft grubber to tee up lone Bok try. Gave away two costly penalties in quick succession, though, which means a markdown …

S’bu Nkosi: 6

Another generally competitive outing. Gutsy steal on one occasion, plus good option of in-field grubber during one attack when hemmed to touchline. Lost a high ball in contact.

Jesse Kriel: 6

One of the most dangerous-looking Bok backs going forward. Tried to do things at pace, and some good cork-screwing to elude tacklers. Vitally dislodged a ball from a flying Mike Brown.  But also passed disappointingly too early once when a breakout try looked on.

Andre Esterhuizen: 4.5

Fell back after that decent debut against Wales. Just couldn’t seem to get into a game where his physical dimensions should have been so useful. Threw out a stray early pass, which didn’t help. But as Victor Matfield noted, Boks might have been better served using his strong left boot at times … they barely did at all.

Aphiwe Dyantyi: 6

Showed promising gusto in limited space, though this was not the ideal game for his attributes. Horribly misjudged the flight of one high ball he was earmarked to collect.

Elton Jantjies: 3.5

Poor, sadly. Missed a fourth-minute shot at goal and that seemed to set tone for him. Shown up for lack of suitability to these conditions. Gremlins included overcooked kicks, two avoidable fumbles and a charge-down. Mercifully hauled off in third quarter.

Faf de Klerk: 5

Once again you had to credit the pint-sized No 9’s pure heart, including memorable drive-back tackle on big eighth-man Nathan Hughes. Otherwise, though, much less impressive than in the winning portion of the series. Tactical kicking not as accurate as that of counterpart Ben Youngs, a dodgy pass or two and also off-side victim of Glen Jackson’s whistle.  

Duane Vermeulen: 6

Like De Klerk, his best contribution to the series came in Jo’burg and Bloemfontein. Just not as much oomph here, though industrious all the same. Strong at lineout, and one morale-lifting breakdown steal at welcome juncture. Lost a high ball forward.

Pieter-Steph du Toit: 7

I thought his engine worked best in the Bok pack on a day made for diesels. Kept at it from start to finish as an energetic, marauding blind-sider. Vital cover-defence once, lots of tackles and carries and a lineout steal or two.

Siya Kolisi: 6

Judging by the way TV commentator Joel Stransky lauded him as he came off in 65th minute, you’d think he might have warranted a higher mark. Certainly worked his socks off in the cleaning, collision and mauling department. But as the open-sider, the skipper must also take some responsibility for Boks being crucially outfoxed 9-4 at turnover time, yes?

Franco Mostert: 6

Durable, yet again, if not earth-shattering. Much of his graft was in dark places. Prominent at lineouts.

RG Snyman: 6

Honest shift until just short of hour mark, when Jean-Luc du Preez entered fray and Du Toit switched to second row. Caused some England lineout disruption with his height and reach.

Frans Malherbe: 6

Improvement on Bloemfontein, where he had looked more severely off the pace. Solid at scrum-time, and more conspicuous in open play, including one big counter-ruck to help secure penalty.

Chiliboy Ralepelle: 5.5

Made some important first-half tackles, and confirmed his mobility during his 44 minutes of activity. But penalised for not rolling away once, and this was perhaps a day where Boks needed more of a grunt-laden, Marx-type hooker.

Tendai Mtawarira: 6

Swift to a few early rucks, and carried with spirit in first quarter. Conceded scrum penalty early in second half, then rapidly subbed.

Standout substitute:

Steven Kitshoff: 6.5

So often the quickest substitute to impose himself on play … and this was no different. A few forceful drives, and debatably pinged for one scrum where he had helped secure noticeable go-forward before he may have lost his foothold and dragged it to ground. Few other Bok reserves set world alight in this one.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
23 Jun 2018, 23:15
#11
23 Jun 2018, 23:15#11

These ratings seem more on target than those of despondent Bok fans on this site. However, I saw more than one highball screwed up and these were serious errors. Kolisi was way over-hyped by SA commentators and I didn't see him do much in the game or leadership wise. I would give him a 5. De Klerk I would give a 5.5 he was fiesty and provided some leadership by example. His performance was impeded by average forward play and Jantjies who was having a bad day. A couple of poor calls on Beast and Kristoff disguised the fact that they did ok so I agree with those ratings.

Willie didn't have much time on the field but he didn't show much that was positive either. Overall the bench didn't add much as the Pommies dominated the last 20 mins.

You guys need a couple of decent locks and other than Vermulen your lose forwards are not much to write home about.

BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
24 Jun 2018, 00:35
#12
24 Jun 2018, 00:35#12

Some other less important points need considering, but for me the most important fact that needs improvement is our inability to control the lose ball. JW is correct where he say that it was only Vermeulen that looked dangerous. 

Sorry, but PSdT is not effective enough and Kolisi is just useless as a 6. He has never played to the ball. I just simply do not know where we will find opposition for Hooper and Pocock. They will destroy us.

Against the English today we could win only 4 turnovers against their 9 wins .... very poor.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Jun 2018, 00:43
#13
24 Jun 2018, 00:43#13
Stephanie does some decent things....lineouts, process tackling, pick and go's. Trouble is none of those things affect the ball on the deck like rucking and fetching. So even though he looks like he is having a decent game there are gaps. Gaps which will be exploited by teams with strong fetching and speed....like Oz with Pocock and Hooper, and NZ. He needs to compete for starting 5 and we need a proper blindside flank.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,255 posts
24 Jun 2018, 01:02
#14
24 Jun 2018, 01:02#14
Our players are particularly poor at ruck play when the conditions are bad. The Boks got exposed for not having a specialist fetcher, as well as more players who are effective at the breakdown.
Vermeulen and Marx could be effective in one pack unit, but Vermeulen is not going to participate in the 4 nations.
Bismarck was another forward that is effective at the breakdown. If Bismark is still playing well - perhaps playing Marx at 6 is an option. - especially if the pitch is wet. 
Without Vermeulen, the back row is going to be a disaster:
Donkey Twin, Stephanie and Kolisi::  - None of these players has any fetching capability . 

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
24 Jun 2018, 09:20
#15
24 Jun 2018, 09:20#15

Maybe Rassie should send an sos to Brussow ..... makes more sense than playing Brits & Chiliboy.

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
24 Jun 2018, 11:02
#16
24 Jun 2018, 11:02#16

The match is determined up front and a very important part of that is at the breakdown.

You cannot expect to be competitive if you're losing your ball at this point. It stops the flow and you end up defending ... again and again.

Kolisi is not only useless as a fetcher but as captain too. It's the norm these days in South Africa ... appoint a quota ... and then hire three white guys to do his task for him.

What the fcuk is he doing in the squad. He should rather go ply his trade at the useless Stormers. At least there his skill level would fit in better.


is

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Jun 2018, 11:23
#17
24 Jun 2018, 11:23#17

blobbok

Maybe he should send an SMS to Labuschagne - he was better than Brussow in fetching than Brussow in 2013 and 2014.   Still is  and he has ball sense and is the best breakdown ball protector SA had for years.

— END OF THREAD —

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