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Bok player ratings

Started by Beeno16 REPLIES165 VIEWS· 25 Nov 2013, 11:00
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Nov 2013, 11:00
#1
25 Nov 2013, 11:00#1

Ex Keo

Different city but same headline: Le Roux and Alberts the pick of the Boks in Paris, as they were in Edinburgh. Here is how I rated the Springboks against France.

15 Willie le Roux
8 – Another impressive all-round performance. Constantly asking questions of the defence but his intelligence and his kicking game were stand out features. (He was the star of the backline)

14 JP Pietersen
8 – This man loves playing in Paris. Chased superbly to charge down Morgan Parra’s clearance and give the Boks a try within two minutes. It set the tone for the match. He was aggressive and strong in everything he did.

13 Jaque Fourie
7 – His defensive organisation is in a different class. His presence was massive in a physically dominant performance.

12 Jean de Villiers (c)
7 – He was composed, led well and as inspirational as he has been all season.

11 Bryan Habana
8 – His off the ball work was brilliant. He was always busy and his work rate is what defines him as a winger that still rates among the world’s best.

10 Morné Steyn
6 – Superb goalkicking but his out of hand kicking was not as good. Made some uncharacteristic basic mistakes, like not finding touch from a penalty twice.

9 Ruan Pienaar
6 – He is no Fourie du Preez but he played according to the game plan and he executed well. He doesn’t have Du Preez’s vision or speed in service delivery but his kicking game was good.

8 Duane Vermeulen
7 – Aggressive, strong and a performance in keeping with a very impressive season.(He was again outstanding)

7 Willem Alberts
9 – Man of the Match. He has enjoyed his best tour with the Springboks and has been outstanding in every one of the Tests. Very physical again and very strong in the tackle. He also carried the ball well and contributed to the Boks gain line advantage.(As I said long ago his game is well suited to NH conditions)

6 Francois Louw
7 – His game continues to evolve and improve. He is a better player for going to England and an example of how the national team can benefit from a player improving while playing off-shore. He should never have been yellow-carded. Shocking decision from Wayne Barnes.

5 Flip van der Merwe
8 – The least celebrated of the locks but on this tour powerful in everything he did. He was strong in Paris. (Has always been a genuine lock and member of the tight five. Glad some oaks arte finally realising thsi!! "Beeno knows A GOOD LOCK WHEN HE SEES ONE" MATFIELD WAS NO LOCK)

4 Eben Etzebeth
6 – Only lasted 17 minutes but was defensively active and strong.

3 Coenie Oosthuizen
7 – Passed his test as a starting tighthead. Credit to him. Credit to scrum coach Pieter de Villiers. Stood up well in the scrums and good in general play.

2 Bismarck du Plessis
6 – Decent performance but not one of his more imposing performances.(Agreed Bissie has slipped a notch or two this tour)

1 Tendai Mtawarira.
7 – Scrummed well and carried well. He is playing his best rugby again.(Not as good as he was when the cries of Beast resounded round grounds. But playing a solid enough game)

Subs:
16. Adriaan Strauss
6 – His lineout throwing wobbled a bit, but that isn’t necessarily just his fault as it could have been a breakdown between the jumper and support lifter. Won vital turnovers in the 15 minutes he won on the field.

17 Gurthrö Steenkamp
6 – Showed good energy and stood up well in the scrums.( Next year bring in Kitshoff)

18 Lourens Adriaanse
Made his debut in the final few minutes. Did not play long enough to warrant a rating.

19 Bakkies Botha
7 – Introduced early because of injury to Etzebeth and immediately made his presence felt. Physically very strong. Excellent comeback to Test rugby in the last two weekends. (I said all along he could add value to the team and Meyer was proved correct in selecting him)

20 Pieter-Steph du Toit
6 – Strong in the 15 minutes he played.

21 Siya Kolisi
No rating as he only played the last few minutes.(Was tossed around a bit)

22 Jano Vermaak
DNP

23 Pat Lambie
6 – Blood replacement at fullback for Le Roux in first half and played the last seven minutes at flyhalf when replacing Steyn. Did nothing wrong. (Great composure remains the hallmark of his game (He has the rugby brain and BMT). He is about ready to take over the number 10 jersey with Goosen as the understudy and Morne still in the picture)

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
25 Nov 2013, 11:15
#2
25 Nov 2013, 11:15#2
Did the Boks play this weekend? 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Nov 2013, 18:34
#3
25 Nov 2013, 18:34#3

Beeno


How the above assessments are arrived at is a mystery to me.   I want to quote the stats of two players and then test their point allocation against those stats as an example:-


Bakkies Botha    - 7 points



Botha

0/0

0

0/0/3

0

0

0

0

1

4/1

4/0

0

0/0


Since there was no ball carries - no points for that.   Now lets give him zero points for attacking play - he was involved in  none.   Give him half a point for each tackle and a full point for each line out take.   That means 6 points - but take off one point for each of the loss op possession and missed tackle - that means 4 points.   You cannot credit him for team effort in maul situations - since his roll may be helpful - but not necessarily decisive.   But give him 1 point for that so the total points count is 5.   Now tell me where the 7 points came from?


Willem Alberts      -    9 points




Alberts

0/0

0

0/0/5

19

0

1

0

0

9/4

0/1

0

0/0

     

Now lets look at an analysis of the above.   He can get 3 points for the one ball carry where he beats one defender - making about 12 meters.  The other carries represent nothing at all.   Add to that 1 point for the line out take and 4,5 points for tackles (half a point per tackle) - that means 8,5 positive points.   However, missed tackles are negative - so take off 4 points for missed tackles and you get to 4,5 points.   Add 1 point for tight five contribution and that makes 5,5 points.


Summary


Please note that I would give a full point if the tackles resulted in a turnover of possession - but none of the Botha and Alberts tackles resulted in that.   A try-saving tackle could clinch the game and should be given as 3 points.  In both cases none as well.   Similarly a missed tackle resulting in a try should be minus 3 points.


So lets get to the point.   The journalist and commentator assessments are normally all based on one incident in a match - not a realistic assessment of the players all-round performances at all.   You will note that when reading the assessment reasons - mostly a collection of verbal garbage saying nothing proven by fact.  That is another reason why assessments should never be based on media hype - but rather on factual contribution.  

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
25 Nov 2013, 19:02
#4
25 Nov 2013, 19:02#4
Mike, you are flogging a dead horse! You are the only person in the whole world that can't see the value Alberts brings. You can't measure the fact that the one meter he gains is one meter OVER the advantage line. Not all tackles are equal, when you tackle a player backwards it puts huge pressure on his team mates not to lose possession, and helps the tacklers team to get into a better position to force a turn over. One bone crunching tackle will make the tackled player think twice before taking contact again with the same tackler. Just a couple of points to prove that stats don't tell a story.
But don't listen to me, just listen to the commentators, other posters, people who decide man of the match....basically anyone who knows anything about rugby, and they'll tell you that Alberts has been a major asset.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Nov 2013, 19:55
#5
25 Nov 2013, 19:55#5

 Bluebok


Fine argument about tackling players backwards and putting the opposition at a disadvantage - but how many times did that happen in the French test insofar as the two players are concerned and the answer is zero times if you look at the match.


I for one does not fall for media or commentators hype - I look at matches and notes down every players contribution and what benefit is gained  or disadvantage resulted  from the contribution.   


When looking at Alberts - you always get the two arguments - he is a mighty ball carrier and he is a strong bone crushing tackler.   Yet when you look carefully at the so-called mighty ball carrying,  his best carry in nearly two years  was on Saturday..  Alberts invariably never beats a tackle - he is brought down immediately after getting the ball.   He had in the past at times lost possession or he got penalized for hanging onto balls.   Statistically his carries are not top class - neither does he ever initiate an attacking move of the backs.   As to his tackles - about half are good - the other average and he misses far too many tackles for comfort.   The praise-singing after the CC final was over-whelming - yet in that game  he missed more tackles than he made - and that is a fact of life.


I do not fall for media hype - neither do I look at one incident in matches - which is the over-whelming impression gained by spectators and hyped - up by the media.  When my notes differ from the hype - I normally look at the stats as well and often enough find similarities in my notes and the stats.   


Like in the Ellis Park test - with a weak miss tackle attempt on Read -   Alberts is going to cost us dearly in matches in future and even if I am the lone voice at present - it will happen in crucial matches in future and people will then wake up too late to his level of actual performance.


In the meantime you may be happy with the guy and see how the AB loosies and franchise Super 15 lossies beat our loosies all the time - mainly because of the limited one-dimensional contributions by Alberts - but I am definitely not.           


 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Nov 2013, 19:56
#6
25 Nov 2013, 19:56#6

 Sorry - duplication

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
25 Nov 2013, 21:25
#7
25 Nov 2013, 21:25#7
CONGRATULATIONS TO THE MIGHTY MIGHTY ALL BLACKS FOR AN UNPRECEDENTED 100% TEST WINNING SEASON!!!



08/06/13    All Blacks v France 23-13 (2:1) Eden Park, Auckland
15/06/13    All Blacks v France 30-0 (3:0) Rugby League Pk, Christchurch
22/06/13    All Blacks v France 24-9 (2:0)     New Plymouth    
17/08/13    All Blacks v Australia 47-29 (6:2) Stadium Australia, Sydney
24/08/13    All Blacks v Australia 27-16 (2:1) Westpac Trust, Wellington
07/09/13 All Blacks v Argentina 28-13 (3:1) Waikato Stadium, Hamilton
14/09/13    All Blacks v South Africa 29-15 (4:2) Eden Park, Auckland
28/09/13 All Blacks v Argentina 33-15 (4:0) La Plata
05/10/13    All Blacks v South Africa 38-27 (5:4) Ellis Park, Johannesburg
19/10/13    All Blacks v Australia 41-33 (4:3) Otago Stadium, Dunedin
02/11/13 All Blacks v Japan 54-6 (8:0) Prince Chichibu Stadium, Tokyo
09/11/13 All Blacks v France 26-19 (2:1) Stade de France, Paris    
16/11/13 All Blacks v England 30-22 (3:1) Twickenham, London
24/11/13 All Blacks v Ireland     24-22 (3:3) Lansdowne Rd, Dublin

very proud of u boys, and just look at that list of tough opponents, and u conquered them all.

friday the 13th is commonly known as black friday, so no surprises that the All Blacks should rewrite history in 2013, cos it has been a black year and then some.

on behalf of the uchiha clan and most folks here on sarugby.com, we thank u All Blacks for doing what no other nation could ever or will ever do.

GO THE MIGHTY MIGHTY UNSTOPPABLE ALL BLACKS!!!
— END OF THREAD —

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