Bok side of the week

 15. le Roux 14. JP 13. de Jongh 12. Ebersohn 11. Rhule 10. Lambie 9. Reinach 1. Beast 2. Strauss 3. Coenie 4. Steph du Toit 5. Bekker 6. Kolisi 7. Coetzee 8. Vermeulen 16. Groom 17. Jean 18. Frans 19. Malherbe 20. Cooper 21. de Jager 22. Labascagne

Agreed pretty much in all positions, but I might have been tempted to include Francis.....what a fabulous display of pressure kicking and drop kicking.

 Agreed, an underrated player who has struggled to find purchase with any side

Saffex

Agree in the main with your team - but De Jongh??????  He made 6 tackles and missed 4.   In oher words he made a major contribution to the scoring of points by the Cheetahs.  His defence really was atrocious - that while he also never even attempted tackles where he should have at least have tried to do so.   We cannot play a center that knocks on balls - lose possession - give away penalties and with an atrocious defence record as a player - so I think you better think again about that one.

Insofar as 7 is concerned - the selection is a toss up between Coetzee and Labuschagne.  To my mind the latter had a more serious imact on the final outcome of the game and he was more effective in both defensive and attacking play.   Prefer Labuschagne at 7 and Coetzee on the bench.  That said - it was Coetzee's best match thus far this year - so he might move up from now on. 

Insofar as 22 is concerned I would rather include Whitehead of the Kings.  

 Superb long pass to set up the first Stormers try, which he then scored by being on the spot. Power enough to burst through a double tackle for the second. The tackle misses were off aggressive tackle attempts coming forward at pace. Who was better?

Mozart

I would say that on the weekend play I would prefer Sadie ahead of De Jongh.  You cannot have a center that cannot tackle against aggressive play.   And it was not only the lack of defence - but also him knocking on balls and making 2 passes only - making 12 runs and then lossing balls as a result of mauls that cost the Stormers dearly.

Despite the two tries - he really was a total negative on the Stormers performance on the day.

"You can't have a centre that cannot tackle against aggressive play".......so why would you have Ebersohn who made 7 tackles and missed 4? 

And by the way, de Jongh turned over one ball, which was less than anybody else in the Stormers backline who played the whole game and gave away no penalties

Mozart

The escape artist again.  I will not have an outside center that has made as many mistakes as De Jongh did.  It was not the missed tackles only - it was his other errors that counts as well.   Or did you miss them entirely like you missed the fact that Fruean's late tackle leading to the penalty was not on Lambie. 

You love selected stats - don't you?   Quoting the de Jongh stats and jumping then to Ebersohn.  Lets get this straight.   Your stats said hat De Jongh made 6 tackls and missed 4.   Here is the stats for his direct opponent:-

Irrespective of how you look at it - Sadie was a 5 times better defender than De Jongh.  The other bothering thing is that It was not only the tackles De Jongh actually missed that was a problem.  It was also that he in some cases "vanished" and did not even attempt to make tackles in at least four cases where he should at least have tried to stop players.     

Insofar as Ebersonh is concerned he scored a much more difficult try and made a clean break that let to another try.  and 7 tackles missing 4 is in my book better than 6 and 4.  

Crap, Coetzee was better than Labascagne this weekend and I would say by some distance.

Actually I forgot about the Kings match and Murray was probably the best SA 13 of the weekend and Engelbrecht was once again huge......those two would force their way into the starting 15. Murray ahead of de Jongh and Engelbrecht ahead of Vermeulen.

de Jongh was better than Sadie and Jordaan, although Sadie had another good outing.

Murray ran for 6 metres. Engelbrecht wasn't playing......hard for me to see how they could have been better than de Jongh.

The fact is de Jongh turned the ball over once.....par for the course. He missed 4 tackles, but those were rush tackles....attempting to pin the opponent deep behind the advantage line. Anybody  who has rushed up to tackle knows you are more vulnerable making that kind of tackle.

He scored two tries and gained more metres than any other SA centre, 12 or 13,  this weekend. He is without doubt, the SA 13 of the week. Doesn't mean I would choose him there for the Boks.

Mr Missed Tackle Specialist De Jongh - player of the week for Mozart.  Mr Knock on the Ball De Jongh - preferred by Mozart.  Mr Secoond half Vanished from the Scene De Jongh player of the week for Mozart.  Nothing like logic there - beause he scored a try that the referee turned into a try-scorng opportunity while the players were stymied by a weird decision.  That referee has some explaining to do in any event. 

Anyway as long as the suname De Jongh is thee the weoirdest support from Moxzart is religiously forthcoming - what else can one expect.  Weird!!!!!!!!

Moz, the Engelbrecht I am referring to is the Kings No 8, I have him ahead of Vermeulen. Engelbrecht was huge, its been a while since I have seen a player bounce players out the way as he did. In one of his runs he knocked 3 players over......where has this lad been hiding?

Murray seemed to beat the defender everytime he took them on, it was through pure physicality. I had forgotten about his contribution on the day. He made more of an impact than de Jongh. de Jongh had a solid enough game, but Murray stood out more for me.

Saffex

I am beginning to understand you reading of the games now.   Engelbrecht was not in the starting line up in the Brumbies game - he was on the bench.   He came on towards the end of the game and played at lock I believe    The no 8 of the team throughout the game was Du Preez.

I now understand that you are on cloud 9 when it comes to viewing and evaluation of games.  How can we ever believe in your evaluation of players if  rate them when they are not even playing in therelevant position????

And as per normal - you are wrong about the Coetzee - Labuschagne issue.   Labuschagne was better both in attack and defence and in line-out work - end of storry. 

Mike you stupid prick. Engelbrecht came on at 7, but is an 8 has played there all S15, but was rested in this game. Bullbring came on at lock you ignorant twit?

Keep getting it wrong and making your name mud as per usual - you are such easy pickings

Labuschagne looks to me like a  good provincial player....but he didn't do much except tackle yesterday.

Mozart - Mozart - Mozart

Did  you acually watch the game yesterday?   You obviously did not - or rather you missed what you wanted to miss - as per normal.  Ebersohn did score a try - now did he not?  Who was the players who passed the ball after each ran at least onw third of the way from the 22.  Was it not Strauss and Labuschagne?   O my - you missed that one - but that is to be expected from you.   You normally only see what you want to see and is a one-incident specialist.

Although I know it is wasted effort because you only use stats to fit your puepose and ignore all the rest,  I am going to give the stats on the two games involved hereunder:-

I am also going to really add further information - not that it would mean anything to you because stats are best ignored if it does not meet your requirements - this one is from Test Rugby:-

       Coetzee - carrying ball forward     =    5 times (the other 6 times was a virtual immediste tackle)

       Labuschagne   -  carrying ball       =    4 times (the other 7 times was a virtual immediste tackle)  

                                   line breaks         =    1 

                                   Line Out wins     =    1  (on Stomers throw-in nogal

Oops - did somebody put his foot in his mouth again??????

And then there is a little question of - who is the highest rated loose forward in terms of all the teams in the Super 15 this year based on Foxsport.   Sorry to inform you it is one Pieter Labuschagne.   Provincial player eh - if his stats beat those of Reid and ALL THE OTHER LOOSIES.  MOZART - MOZART - MOZART - PLEASE DO SOME HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU MAKE NONSENSICAL STATEMENTS.

Oom Mike neither of these two players are physically gifted enough for test rugby. We saw that last year with Coetzee, that's why he was dropped....you do remember that I assume.

Mozart

Coetzee dropped - hell but you really are thick.  Being on the bench does not mean a player is dropped from the the match day tam - dropped means being out of the Springbok team completely.   In any given game the player concerned will still play fror the Sprngboks and that is what happened all the time with Coetzee.

No comments about the stats and the fact that the New Zealand commentators call Labuschagne the neareset thing to NcCaw they have seen for years.  But anyway - you were caught out making a ridiculous statement and then you try and wiggle yourself out of it like per normal - allow me to quote you again -" Labuschagne looks to me like a good provincial player....but he didn't do much except tackle yesterday"

My advice remains - watch games carefully before being caught out by wild statements - it does not help your arguments at all.   One incident and the rest of the game counts for nothing is the rule by you - not the exception. And if you want to use stats - do not use it selectively - use it in respect of all players concerned.

 Oom Mike.....semantics. He was dropped from the starting team if you prefer. I love your use the stats selectively claim, when that's exactly what you do.....and then you ......selectively .....quote one NZ commentator. Here's the scoop neither of these players have a prayer of impacting in a test against NZ or OZ. perhaps you are more suited to the fantasy sphere.

Mozart

When I quote stats I quote  it for all players concerned.   I quote it for De Jongh and Sadie for instance.  Both played at 13.   You went on and quote stats for a 12 and a 13 to compare players.  That is being selecive in using stats.   You can never say that I am selective in supplying or using info on stats - I always provide the full info and also the comparative basis applicable.

By the way - you did not watch the Cheetahs games in New Zealand  - now did you?  And yes - talking of the fantasy sphere - nobody is better able to live in  drreamworld than you are.   Your opinion on players have been proven wrong 90% of the time - because it is based on single incidents in games and never on a comprehensie situation.   I can quote ample examples of that one.     

Hi guys I see most of the bitching has calmed down now that the rugby has started again.

Team of the week :)

15 Willie le Roux - In agreement. would move him to 15 best attacking weapon from the back along with Aplon at 14 could be devastating:

14 Aplon - Sorry guys to me it's a no contest. No stats will be able to sway me on this, commitment and heart is the word.

13 - Sadie - The most debateable position - No standout - You could even pick Waylon Murray or move de Villiers to 13. 

12 - Ebersohn - There is no competition for him with the form that he is currently in. The best 12 in SA by far this week and the previous three weeks running.

11 - Rhule- A bit concerned about his defence, but he is the standout 11 for the week. I would have liked to include Ronnie Cooke who had a very solid game for the Kings on defence, but attack was a bit non existent.

10. Lambie - only other Contender is Burton Francis--- Lambie was better.

9. Reinach - Who else. Groom did okay but messed up with this going forward to kick notion the hougaard does as well. van Zyl did better than him, Pretorius was on the field for 3 minutes.

8. Cornell du Preez. - No Nr8 came close to him this week, had an exceptional game against the Brumbies.

7. Wimpie van der Walt - Along with du Preez made a pare that gave the Brumbies nighmares. They are probably still waking at night. Labuschagne a second with Coetzee third.

6. Brussouw. the lone standout to me at 6 Kolisis did some good things. But brussouw was disruptive. he did give away some points but that is law interpretation so another ref might not have caught him. He did give everything though, and excellent pressure in the loose.

5. Bekker -  undisputed - dont know what de Jager did to get a mention, he was poor guys. He is a big physical specimen, but that is it. he is as soft as a baby and was beaten down by the master.

4. De Kock Steenkamp. - I am not a fan of his but he was the standout linesman, stole 2 lineous from the Cheetahs and did his work in the loose for a change. du Toit second.

3. Coenie - He put alot of pressure on Kitshoff, and was busy all over when he came on.

2. Strauss - no contest

1. Beast - He is the standout, however, Nyakane is comeing along in leaps and bounds, and Ferreira had an excellent game for the Kings as well.

Ek, come now, Steph du Toit was huge. de Kock Steenkamp apart from the odd line-out steal, was a non factor. No contest, Steph du Toit was far, far better. You are 100% wrong rearding de Jager, he has had a great season and gets stuck in all the time. He is a 4 so not sure why you are comparing him to Bekker. de Jager was better than Steenkamp.

You are also wrong about Aplon at 14, JP was far better

 Well Saf then let's just make it a matter of oppinion. as I said. normally I am not a fan of Steenkamp, but he did impress me this weekend, more than the youngster. 

I really still need to be convinced about de jager, sorry not sold on him yet.

on Aplon, well let us agree to disagree. 

Odd that you didn't mention the Kings loosies du Preez and vd Walt, apart from your mention about Engelbrech that came on in the end. He did show some good touches especially the bounce offs along the touchline, but i would like to see him do that all game. du Preez and vd Walt however were brilliiant. 

You are 100% wrong about Steenkamp over Steph du Toit and I suspect you are very alone on that one. de Jager has been a great find for the Cheetahs - dont be fooled by those puppy cheeks

I am happy with your call on the Kings loosies, they were great.

 I suspect I might be, alone

This call is for the bok  team of the week, not necceserily long term Saf, du Tiot is the better long term prospect, and I am no Steenkamp fan, but I have to be fair to the guy, He probably had the best game i have ever seen him play.

I shall await further convincing by de Jager on the Field. As I said, I have nothing against the kid. He still needs to convince me though, and maybe it's as you say that i am fooled by his baby fat.

Ja it is difficult to take those de Jager cheeks seriously, but the kid is good, takes all his line-out ball and gets stuck in in general play.

As for Steenkamp, I never saw a single ball carry or ruck clear out from the guy......something Steph du Toit did all game along with his line-out takes