Bok side of the week

15. Visser 14. le Roux 13. JJ 12. Serfontein 11. Rhule 10. Morne 9. Vermaak 1. Coenie 2. Strauss 3. Kirsten 4. de Jager 5. Kruger 6. Brussouw 7. Labascagne 8. Arno Botha

Saff, how poor was Daniel at 8 for the Sharks this weekend. He is a dry weather player only. Everything he touched turned to shit. Ridiculous little passes often finding the floor and on one occasion, right into the arms of a Cheetahs player who luckily knocked it on.

He was an easy tackle everytime he ran. Often being driven back metres. Basically just need to touch him in the wet and he goes down. Definately gota put him on the back burner for Bok re-selection after seeing that and definately never as an 8!

Regards Visser who you put at 15. Do you think this man could be an option at 15 for the Boks or is he still not queit there? Must admit, I hardly ever watch the Bulls games.

Coenie?? Dont you think the Cheetahs front row was being dominated with the Beast on the park. It all changed when he went off injured and Jannie came on.

I am reluctant to select Bulls players, even though they had a great win against the Kings I fear the Kings never rocked up so you cannot really get a good indication if they really played that well or if not, so keeping that in mind I will select my team of the week.

15. Riaan Viljoen

14. Le Roux

13. Jordaan

12. Serfontein - I couldn't leave him out Even though Ebersohn had by far the harder game Serfontein stood out.

11. Rhule

10. Morne Steyn - No other SA Flyhalf had as good a game as Steyn.

9. Reinach

8. Pierre Spies - Spies had a great game at 8, given his team had alot of front foot ball to work with under these cicumstances he is very good.

7. Arno Botha - Arno botha moved to 7 for this game much better proposition at 7 than at 6. Du toit did well at 7 as did Lappies.

6. Brussouw

5. Kruger

4. De Jager - Yes the kid is starting to rub off on me, but still not fully convinced.

3. Jacobie Adriaanse - I select the Cheetahs front row as a unit thy put some good pressure on the Sharks and a tighthead plays a huge role in this. Not sure about the stated domination of the cheetahs front row, but yes things changed alot when beast went off. 

2. Strauss - Cooper also impressed

1. Coenie. 

Ek

I looked at your team compared to Saffex's and I am in the case of some players.   I consequintly checked the ESPN stats to see whether there are any real indication on that score that a person can use as a norm.  Tehe outcome was as follows:

Full back

The stats were as follows:-

Based on te above info I tend to agree with you about the issue and think Viljoen - playing under much more dificult conditions was the better of the two players on display.

Centers

Engelbrecht 0/0 0 0/5/9 56 1 3 1 2 5/1 0/0 0 0/0

Much tighter this one.   However i would favour Jordaan in this case - purely because he made more with half the balls handled by him than Engelbrecht did and his defence was better than Engelbrecht's.   On the other hand the Sharks game was more difficult to evaluate because of the weather conditions and the Sharks forwards did not really make the grade compared to the Bulls forwards - who were in the ascendancy and made life easier for their backline.

Scrummie

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Also difficult to evaluate - because the Bulls forwards did have the ascendancy - but I would say the  try indicates an advantage and believe Vermaak should get the vote in this case.

No 7 Flank

Sasue said Botha played at 8 - but he did not.   I looked at the no 7 stats and came up with the following:-

Although Botha had a good game - I tend to go with Labuschagne in this case.   Labuschagne was better on defence and took more line out balls.    He also got two turnovers of possession - one crucial one virtually on the tryline that prevented the Sharks from scoring.

On the whole a person cannot rely overmuch on Saffex's idea about performance.   He has certain players that acording to him MUST be the better ones.   Such an example is JJ Engelbrecht and also Arno Botha - thats why he considered him at 8 and not where he actually played.

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Mike I know that you like to use stats but the stats really tell you nothing with regards to the 2 games played on the weekend. Ona game was a muscle in in the wet and one was a one sided affair. All the stats are skewed on this it won't tell you much.

You will have to go watch the games to make up your mind yourself man. 

As I said number 7 was difficult as both Lappies and Steph du Tiot had good games as well. but to each their own. I have no idea why Saf selected Botha at 8 as he dodn't play there. I am not dissing JJ engelbrech as well as I believe he did not have a bad game at 13 I still think he should move back to wing but that is just me. I think Jordaan had the better game agaisnt better opposition in dificult circumstances. Same with regards to Reinach and Vermaak, the circumstances made me go for Reinach instead of Vermaak. Fullback was a non issue to me as i think Viljoen had an excellent game in the wet.

 Jordaan ahead of JJ is a joke

Saffex

The joke is on you.   I think you only see part of games and igmore the rest.   I did not go for Jordaan - I looked at both games and thought the matter was 50-50 between the two players.   However, when Ek came up with his team - I decided to try and get confirmation about the issue and looked at the stats on the game.   To my mind it remained 50-50 - with the benefit to Ek's point of view.   Jordan was better on defence and his attacking also showed - for the first time this year - how good he can be if he gets decent balls to play with.

Boklog, I have always said Daniel is not an 8, he should never be selected there. His only spot is 6 and his strength is playing the link role.

Visser is a quality player, good with ball in hand and great under the high ball. We can better judge his credentials by the end of the S15. I think he is test material, but time will tell.

Coenie dominated Herbst, Coenie was huge

Ek

I must admit that after watching the games I felt that the Sharks forqwards were outplyed by the Cheetahs and that it could be the reason for backline performances not being given nough credit.   When there are differnt points of view expressed on this site - I first coonsider what I have seen and evlauted myself and then have a look at he stats on the game.

There are obviou things that you can see slearly - there are other things happening in traffic that is ot always easy to see and identify.  Taking that into account - as well as my own opinion - I wouldthn consult towo or more of the stats sites and then try and provide a reasoned and objective assessent of what actually happened.    I may also mentioned that Reinach is the highest rated scrummie in Super16 by Foxsport,    He nd Labuscagne holds number 1 positions in there respective positions according to Foxsport.   

Insofar as the no 7 issue is concerned - Foxsport rated the three loosies as follows;-

Labuschagne      =      31 points

Botha                   =     30 points

Du Toit                 =     17 points

Although the differnce is very small - I still favour Labuschagne in this case.   Unde wet and difficult conditions - an especially in view of the line-outs superirority, th better tackle stats and the turnovers affected - I think Lappies had the edge on Botha.   

Cant say I saw Coenie dominating Herbst....mostly I saw Coenie popping up in the scrums.

The Cheetahs scrum dominated the Sharks. There was no popping by Coenie, for if he had been popping he would have been penalised. He just overpowered Herbst - the Cheetahs pack drove the Sharks pack backwards and in the process the frontrows stood up at times - but it was always with the Sharks going backwards

DomMike, Jordaan over JJ is a complete joke, much like Ek's logic that because the Bulls played the Kings he struggled to select Bulls players - what a crap angle.

The Kings have hardly disgraced themselves now have they and Strauss and Murray are hardly mugs at centre.

Here is Jordaan's rating for the game against the Cheetahs you plank. This from the Sharks supporters website:

12) Meyer Bosman. Added little variety or threat on attack and battled to contain his opposite number at times. 4/10

13) Paul Jordaan. His once-vaunted skill level appears to decline week by week and a defensive error from him led to the first Cheetahs try, from which the Sharks never recovered. Only a great break at the end of the game saves him from a lower rating, but even that broke down, as they all tend to do these days. 2/10

Dave that "dominance" all occured after the Beast was hurt. Before that Coenie was vertical in several scrums....check it out.

 No man the Cheetahs were always in charge of the scrums. Coenie was overpowering Herbst......I thought it was concerning at the time given the Sharks had bolstered their scrum by moving Steph du Toit to flank and bringing Bresler in at lock. The added grunt never helped.

There is a difference between a prop popping under pressure and prop dominating another and driving him up. If Coenie had been popping under the pressure, he would have been pinged

Yeah, I thought Herbst and the Beast had the better of Coenie and Adriaanse. I thought that all changed slightly when Beast went off injured and Jannie came on.

If it was a "prettier" game to watch, I might have to check it out again as I could be missing something but as far as I am concerned, some games are not worth a second viewing. This is one! It just became frustrating the amount of handling errors. Wet or not, Sharks did not handle the ball well.

I feel we did all the playing with Cheetahs just kicking and waiting for a Sharks mistake to capitalise. Turning point of the season was this game for the Sharks! This is where we start the slide I feel. Doesnt help with our 4 best players out with injury in Alberts, Bizzie, JP and Beast!

Does anyone know where Butch James is? Is he injured? Why is he not touring? Surely we could use him now?

Nope, I checked the scrums again, the Cheetahs definately had the upper hand.

James is injured

Saffex - Dunce of the year

Who wrote the quotation above - was it an oficial assessment by a dunce like you - or what?   You really are weird you know.   Please gie the reference so I can check it out - bullshiter.

LiarMike, we have already exposed you for lying, once you verify my reference, I expect an apology you lying twat

http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2013/04/22/sharks-player-ratings-v-cheetahs-10/