Bok side post WC

I have crossed out the no-ho pers, plodders and injury-prone. 

Next years SuperRugby will reveal some new players

15. Willemse (Gelant / Fassi)

14. Nkosi ( Duhan vd Merwe / Tambwe)

13. Kriel ( Am / Rohan JVR / Esterhuizen)

12. de Allende ( Serfontein / Vorster)

11. Kolbe ( Petersen / Senatla / Maxwane)

10. Pollard ( Willemse / Bosch)

9. Faf ( Jantjies / Papier)

1. Kitshoff ( Pierre Schoeman/ Thomas)

2. Marx ( Dweba / Mbonambi)

3. Malherbe ( Wilco Louw / Thomas / Sadie)

4. Etzebeth ( Jenkins)

5. Lood ( RG Snyman / PSDT/ JD Schickerling)

6. Kolisi ( Kwagga)

7. PSDT ( JL du Preez / Jacques du Plessis/ Ackerman / Liebenberg/ Wiese)

8. Dan du Preez ( Marcel Coetzee/ Jaco Coetzee/ Notshe)

15.) 

14. Duhan vd Merwe, Mapimpi

13. Am 

12. Rohan  Esterhuizen Allende

11. Kolbe 

10. Pollard Willemse 

9. Faf  Jantjies 

1. Kitshoff 

2. Marx  Mbonambi 

3. Malherbe Wilco Louw 

4. Etzebeth 

5. RG Snyman  PSDT Lomp

6. Kwagga

7. Mostert Ackerman

8. Jaco Coetzee

I am afraid that the way to go is to start looking at players that would go through to the next WC  and some of the above would not be in contention.   In this regard players like Mostert and Mbonambi is unlikely to feature in future,   Even De Klerk may be in that category.   Another problem is that players like Kwagga have  not really been up to standard in test level and Senatla is going back to Sevens - they will not make the grade in tests.

I have seen a few matches played in England the past week and Dan du Preez scored a very good try in one of those.   

As stated previously a forecast like the above is really problematic and I think it is not clear where the firm Erasmus and co would go in future.   There will definitely be  some signs when the next Springbok camps are held in May and July 2020.

Incidentally the one player I like is Jaco Coetzee mentioned by Mozart.               

Oh look ... Stupid Dave and a list of 50+ players making up his team.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaaaa!!

What a surprise!!

One would think that with a vast list like that he'd at least get a few hits.

Now let me see ... yup ... thought so. At least 70% of his enormous squad are all second rate entities that have no business in the test arena. Why he wants them playing for the country he discarded is beyond me. 

Can it be??? Nooooooooooo ... surely not??? No Elton Jantjies in the mix?

Haaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaaaa!! What happened, Stupid Dave? Isn't he good enough any more? How come? I thought he was supposed to be the "Tiger Woods" of world rugby.

Oh and by the way ... Tank Thomas is as much of a tighthead as Coenie was. Remember him? A favourite of yours. He made as much of a difference in the test arena as Elton did.

I'm glad to see you're still posting, Stupid. It may even draw me back to check on this board every week. 

Keep it up.

How's your mom? She good??  

CC

Nice to see you posting - especially after the serious disappointment you suffered in the WC.   The battles between you and Dave are classical examples of humour of massive proportions. and of  course we need entertainment on site.

I see you and Mozart is in tune forecasting the collapse of rugby under the abominable  Erasmus.   Hope for your sake you are not embarrassed again.   Must agree - we will suffer in Super Rugby the next two years or so  while rebuilding teams after near total looting by the NH clubs of anything that moves - even kids leaving school.  

Maybe another bit of advice from me - lets look at performance not race of players in future when considering selection scenarios.    

CC

Nice to see you posting - especially after the serious disappointment you suffered in the WC.   The battles between you and Dave are classical examples of humour of massive proportions. and of  course we need entertainment on site.

I see you and Mozart is in tune forecasting the collapse of rugby under the abominable  Erasmus.   Hope for your sake you are not embarrassed again.   Must agree - we will suffer in Super Rugby the next two years or so  while rebuilding teams after near total looting by the NH clubs of anything that moves - even kids leaving school.  

Maybe another bit of advice from me - lets look at performance not race of players in future when considering selection scenarios.    

Yes Mike ... I have been suffering from severe depression these last weeks.

The Goats have driven me to drink.

I am in favour of merit selections. Always have been, however ... you and I both know that merited selections are a thing of the past.

The current Goats side is testament to that.

LOL

Not sure I agree with you about the fact that the selections of the latest squad of Erasmus was not in the main based on merit selection.    There were indeed duds in the squad - but in essence in the final the team was probably in the main made up of the best players available in SA at present,

LOL   

I thought Beast was a has-been ? Thor was useless? Louw was useless, Mostert was useless? Frans was useless? Now, these contributors are merit selections? Are you just flip-flopping now because the integrity of your crush is being called into question? 

Really?

Akker is a better 2 than both Brits and Bongi the midget.

Tank should never have been there. There are a number of better options on both sides to pick from.

You have great lock. I have no issues with any of them ... including Mostert.

The best 8 in the country couldn't even make the squad of 31. Instead you got Louw and Vermeulen.

The less said about your openside flank the better. Was he a merit pick?

What was Elton doing there? Was he there on merit too?

How about Am ... Frans Steyn ... Willie Le Roux ... Willemse ... ?

One can accept 1 or 2 odds selections ... but the few that I mentioned above make up a third of your squad.

Must say I liked Lizo Gqoboka (Bulls loosehead) towards the end of the Super Rugby season,but Beast at that time (and with hindsight) cemented his position in the Bok team. This was a period in which Kitschoff lost form.

Blikkies ... yes ... agreed ... how Lizo missed the cut is still a puzzle to me.

Beast hasn't been the best SA loosehead in all the years he was selected. He's a quality rugby player of that there's no doubt ... and probably good enough to be in he mix somewhere ... but ... as a starting loosehead? I don't think so.

He was selected because he was a little better than the average ... and they needed a black man in the mix. They knew that they could get by using him without compromising the team. Being black clinched the deal for him. He was one of the better quota picks ... but a quota none the less. 

Many SR tighthead props scrummed him into the ground ... including Dreyer ... who some regarded as our worst 3 ever. Makes you think, huh?

Still ... better loosehead props were overlooked and Beast was allowed to chalk up more than a 100 tests.

Thankfully he is now a thing of the past. I'm not sure who they've earmarked as his replacement. Tank seems to be preferred on the tighthead side, which in my opinion is laughable.

A typical Stupid Dave kind of selection.

Louw is gone and hopefully the overrated Vermeulen too. It will be interesting to see who replaces them.

CC

I think there was a number of players in the squad based on the fact that the real selection possibilities were injured or without games for a while as a result,  Those included  players like Serfontein.

I agree with you about players like Steyn, Jantjies an Thomas du Toit.  

I rate Willemse very highly and disagree with you about Am.  He actually was very good in the WC games he played in.   Willemse is a youngster with talent and he will go far playing rugby.   The fact that he was not in the initial squad stems from injury absence and a late return before the WC squad announcement.  Erasmus told him to accept the invitation to go to play for Saracens and keep matchfit, and wh en Kriel got injured called him up to the squad,   

Louw was another poor selection, but both Willie and Vermeulen - failing in earlier games - played massive games in the final.    Both are out of contention and I believe Erasmus would consider other players to replace those.

Incidentally I do not agree with a lot of players Dave listed,   There are other youngsters coming through that is definitely on the Erasmus watch list and amongst those all of Muller du Plessis (full back and wing) would be on the shortlist as a replacement for Willie.   Have a look - there are some video clips on the guy playing Under 20 and sevens rugby - he is going to 15 man rugby in the Sharks squad  after the next Sevens season ends in May next year and is a definite rugby great coming through,   I also think the Sevens player Impi Visser (center)  may feature in future,  Then there are players like Jordan Chait (flyhalf playing for the Sharks) and Streicher (no 8) as well as Smit (center playing for the Lions) on my watch for list of Super Rugby players next year.

A few corrections:

1 The Beast has been the best loosehead in the country and probably the world for 10 years. He was never  bested in the scrums and he dominated at key times, eg the Lions tour. He wasn't always healthy, wasn't always motivated.....but when he was engaged nobody was better.

2 Looking only at players who will likely make it to 2023 is the wrong way to go. Certainly that consideration has to be in the mix. But we need to confirm our WC win by having a great 2020 and settling at number one. That means keeping the winning team intact and gradually replacing retiring players.

Teams lose the plot when they throw all the balls in the air.

Sound suggestion Mozart

But then we may end up with the Meyer panic scenario of 2014 and 2015.   There need to be solid squad building - not hanging on to the elderly in the vague hope that they would keep performing. 

Fact is there were too many of the elderly and of inexperienced younger players in the 2015 squad and the fact is that if the Springboks had a proper squad (with 31 playable players - there were 8 unplayable ones) that year they may have sprung a surprise despite the crazy non-game plan of Meyer,   The players that was secondary should have played in more of the tests against minor teams - but the bugger-up of mainly the elderly in the Japan test, cut that out and  the top players had to play virtually in every test thereafter.   They should have been rested in the games against the weaker teams - but Meyer could not do it,  With more rest games the level of lesser fatigue would have helped the players against the AB's in the semi.  

Players cannot build up experience in the WC series - they must have adequate experience built up in the last two years before the WC.   

How much exposure a player needs is dependant upon the individual, but history shows that slow starters almost never make it. If a player needs two years to take the step up into test rugby then one of two things are true:

1. Said player is not good enough to be playing at this level. 
2. Said player was called up too soon and isn't ready to play at this level. 

It's better to have a stable environment for a rookie to be inserted than to have an inexperienced group of rookies with no/inadequate leadership. 

And going in the WC with 3 test experience is enough when having to play in the WC?   Stop talking BS and look carefully what for instance NZ does regularly as to player renewal.  

Dupllicate

Completely agree Augie....the great Boks show in their first few tests......like Pollard, Habana, Schalk, Victor, Eben, Jean. The guys who linger like Kriel, Lomp, Kitshoff, Reinach, Allende tend to linger. Maybe the best option for a while because there is nobody else, but not destined for greatness.

Snyman showed hugely in  his first test, it's time to recognize that,

2023 might be a stretch for some of us poster????????????????

Think 2020.

The selection of the 2015 WC squad by Meyer was a total disaster - too many ex-greats lingered for too long and the result was a disaster for the team.   

Hahahahaha.....funny AJH.