But I told you Dave:
1 Nkosi could consider playing at outside centre, however, he is solid at wing- even if he is not the fastest.
3 Kitshoff has done nothing all year. Was poor for the Stormers, and average for the Boks
4 Marx has been average for the Boks this season. Maybe dropping him, will give him a kick up the arse.
5 Wilco appears to have an eating problem. Very strong, but is he mobile enough for test rugby.
6 Mostert is like a Matfield. Plays more like a blindside flanker. However, the Boks have lots of ball carriers, so having a high work rate lock is fine. He got player of the season in the UK- which favours bigger and slower locks - so he must be good.
Lomp is a flat track bully - lacks brain capacity.
7 Marcel is sellotaped together. He has so many bandages he looks like a mummy, that could trip over the loose circles.
8 Louw has been a revelation. For those that do not understand the importance of a forward that is effective at the breakdown, just do not understand rugby. One of the Deysel twins, can carry - but they cant vary their game based on the situation.
9 Frans Steyn is not ideal, but when you compare him with the likes of Carhuizen he looks good.
SB
It is not the problem as outlined by you and Mozart ahs always been a fool looking for positives amongst players like Vermeulen and Louw when there is very little or nothing in evidence.in evidence. .
The problem with Mostert - his contribution to Tight 5 requirements is near to zero. Since he became involved as a lock the driving mauls has vanished from sight, He is physically too weak in line-outs to organize a maul and his line out contribution as caller in the AB test caused serious problems for the accuracy of throw-ins by the hooker as the lineouts was a shambles, . If you watch carefully you will notice that he ends about near to a meter behind the place from where he jumped. That makes it impossible for him to co-ordinate a maul. In the one that was successful last year against France the maul went backwards with Mostert's feet in the air unable to contribute anything to the maul, Du Toit then took over the organization and forward moving of the maul after Vermeulen joined him in the effort. Mostert's contribution to the maul was zero-minus.
Louw has a reputation for ball turnovers and he did one against the AB's Remember he came on as openside flank. He made Zero ball carries in the game and made ONE tackle when on the field. If we want a loosie whose contribution in a game is one turnover with virtually no contribution in other aspects of play and giving away a penalty as well - is he worth having in the team? To my mind he is in fact a liability and has been so in most tests under Meyer,
Even a bigger liability for the team against the AB's was Vermeulen. His record was atrocious. He spilled two balls losing possession - the one ended up in the Goodhue try, He gave away two penalties as well. He was the worst tackler of the three loosies, Vermeulen is a Christmas gift player - he is good in one match and weak a week later- helping the opposition mo re than his own team in the process,
Steyn came from the bench and did squat of even the remotest value in both games, He is clumsy and slow in both thinking and pace with the result that he was nowhere in sight when the break leading to the Foley try was made. It is generally known that he has a knee problem preventing him from changing direction and that allows for players to ruin past hum with ease, That was hos problem when playing for the Sharks and that is his problem still. If he is any good - why did Montpellier not renew his contract?
I do not agree with Dave always - but he has it right about those four players. Erasmus should rather drop them because they are getting worse insofar as performance is concerned,
.
Duplication
Snark, that's one of your better posts...am with you on Am, but he will have to impose himself better in contact, even Kolbe is better....Am might have been a bit overwhelmed against the Allblacks. I hope he is sharper against the Latinos...them Bargies always have a hard runner there for the offload....tricky team to play.
Go Bokke!
CleverMike,
If the top 5 coaches in the world were to choose a Bok pack, it would contain Vermeulen and Francios Louw.
Many SA fans (and coaches) would choose a big Bok pack of ball carriers, but it would not work in test rugby because this pack would not be competitive at the breakdown.
It was apparent for the Sharks this season in SuperRugby, that their pack was not balanced enough to be consistent. When the Sharks got parity at the rucks, they usually won. When the oppositions smaller pack dominated the ruck, the Sharks had lots of ball carriers standing around like Willem Alberts.
Test rugby needs a balanced pack - and a reason that the Deysel twins are not considered- not one, let alone both in the starting team.
You put far too much faith in fantasy stats, which is very limited- particularly in the tight phases of the game. Watching the game on TV, players block the camera view - and it hard to see who is doing the tight play work.(even after watching the game more than one). A player like Vermeulen was on the deck for lots of the match, slowing the ball down, hitting rucks backwards and recovery. He can vary his game, based on the match situation. He can be a ball carrier, but a team needs to walk before it can run. If the breakdown battle is lost, Vermuelen will be in the thick of things - and sacrifice some of his play in the loose.
Louw made a match-winning turnover against the French, and a match-saving one against the All Blacks. These are key moments in matches that are decided by world-class players.
Fantasy stats is one person counting a few stats. Not all quantitative stats are considered, and it is not qualitative measurement. (e.g. a tackle, vs tackling someone backwards, or tackling someone and holding them up to give your team time to support and organise defence). Or Tackling someone while blocking their offload pass at the same time. Tackling someone and turning them in the tackle, making it harder for them to turn over to allow their players to retain possession.
I would challenge anyone to give a list of:
1. Number of rucks per game.
2. Who was the first player to the ruck, the second player to the ruck. (average ratios)
3. Who gave their scrumhalf more space at the ruck. (Blocking the sides of ruck)
4. How many rucks were cleared - ratio by player
5. How many balls slowed down - ratio player
6. How many rucks did they tidy up? (Prevent knock-ons, and speed up recycling)
7. What is the ratio of ball carriers to contributions at the ruck?
8. If some players play a tight role, how many opportunities does this contribute to someone playing looser?
9. How did they contribute to the defensive line, by closing down space with positional play at the ruck.
10. The list is endless....
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P.s Did Mostert play for all 4 SA SuperXV teams this year? The rolling maul has not been effective for any of the SA teams - at least not compared with a few years ago. A few years ago, more than 50% of SA tries were from rolling mauls.
More teams have worked out how to counter this, and refs have been more vigilant with the technical details like blocking the ball carrier, and using truck and trailer.
SB
Forget about it - I never use Fantasy stats on site - of I refer to stats it is ESPN stats - noting to do with Fantasy.
The rest of your contribution is total guess work and an effort to justify performances of under-performing players through generalization 0 without any real facts to support your statements,
Vermeulen before his injury in 2015 was top class - he left to go to France and came back able to play two good games in a row and then went sour, Have seen very few positive contributions thus far under Erasmus.
ESPN stats are often wrong, and people that use them only use them in 2 situations-
1. If they support their argument
2. Change the stats to support their argument, without providing a link to the source of information.
Rugby is a team sport. Using a set of stats that only count some individual contributions, does not accurately reflect a players performance to the overall team effort.
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Rassie is a smart coach. If Vermuelen was finished, he would drop him like a hot potato. If Steve Hansen was Bok coach, he would have Vermuelen in the team
Shark, I was a Louw fan while he and Scalla were stilll playing "left" and "right" flank for WP. A loose trii...and the trio plus the hooker...and those 4 plust the rest of the pack...and then the rest of the team, forms a cohesive unit where the team should equal more than the sum of the individual members.
There are lots of talks about "combinations " and "horses for courses "...in the end it boils down to finding the right balance...the ingredients for " The Perfect Storm "
You will never get a team consisting of the "perfect clasical 1" right through to the "perfect classical 15 (or 23). You get a fantastic 9 with a critical flaw, but you can compensate for that flaw by choosing an average 8 who negates the flaw of the 9. The combination is better than the best other flawless 8-9 combo...the beauty of team sport.
South Africa is known for playing 2 big "7" flankers, with the 8 and 2 doing most of the fetching...and it helps having a big bruiser like Louw helping too.
Having said that...if you play Louw and Thor, the 3rd loosie should be a bit faster...Kwagga and even Kolisi will do, but you can't have PSDT in the back row too. Either Louw or PSDT is probably best suited for the bench.
Stats need to be verified by film and must be put in context - film provides the context. Hence why I ask Lügnerin questions about the numbers he posts, he exposes he ignorance of anything that can be seen on film.
Stats will be limited until the technology is improved. If all players, the ball and the touchline had digital chip tracking, cameras and measurement lasers from the touchline, and roof -it would be more reliable.
Marcel Coetzee with some of his bandages. Nowadays he usually all his legs are usually covered as well.
Coetzee. Now that's a player I did watch up north. Overhyped. Even at his peak, he failed the Boks.
Regarding stats, there is too much interpretation. I find tackle stats the least useful. There is so much that goes into a tackle. One open channel from player x leaves player y in a vulnerable position; he gets beaten. The stats say player y missed a tackle, player x is never accounted for in the stats. It's more useful to screenshot each phase and label them. That's the way to learn how the team plays, how to find the real culprits and break down in play. When I review film, I make my own notes and collect my own stats which I compare to other sources.
Well, at his age Marcel might be a backup for Thor, but it's too late for him to be a contender for the starting 15...not even close!
I am not going to take on a rugby genius to dispute selections with him. Meyer would shout out his twisted norms for all to hear.
I am not going to take on a rugby genius to dispute selections with him. Meyer would shout out his twisted norms for all to hear.
Nkosi is a carthorse, he made zero impact on the Ozzie loosie and as a matter of fact have a look at Etzebeth making more strides than him.
Nkosi is quick enough to be a nuisance, but clearly not our fastest wing. He is more physical on attack than on defence, where he is often caught out. We have probably more options on the wing than ever before. I recall how, under Jake, we struggled to replace Paulse with a clear #2 wing.
So Paulse was to be repl aced and we struggled with Pietersen and Habana being the wings/ LMAO
So Paulse was to be repl aced and we struggled with Pietersen and Habana being the wings/ LMAO
Yes, the JP who saved our WC against Fiji, scored some breathtaking tries to be the seventh highest try scorer in Bok history in 70 caps.
Just that useless, fat JP.
You call yourself a fan, but your knowledge of Bok rugby is appalling. Your respect for its greatest servants is even worse.
Listen dimness
You write a lot of tripe and this all in one thread. If you want to o an evaluation of what happened on the rugby field there are two ways - yours and Mozart's twisted prejudiced accounts and on the other hand objective assessments. Get your house in order and if you ever not twist what happens a person can have a reasonable discussion with you.
Liar is also typified by you - I never called Pietersen fat - that term is the preserve of Fat Fransie who deserves it thoroughly. Pietersen lost his pace like older players are inclined to do.
What I do is to respect players who retire at their prime and not bugger up their own reputation by staying on after they should have gone. They are not "holy" - if they bugger up when staying past their sell-by date they deserve to be criticized..
And since you are incredibly stupid so do you.
"Liar is also typified by you......"
Pot.....Kettle.....Black.
Dave
You should know by now that if Mozart and co criticize a player just do the opposite and you will be right. They have a twisted idea about player performances.
