There is lots of speculation about newbies, and there might be some. But I'm guessing the Bok team at the end of the TN wont be far from:
Steyn
JP
Jordaan
Jean
Habana
Lambie
Pienaar
Jannie
Bismarck
Beast
Louw
Etzebeth
Kruger
Schalk
Vemeulen.
And a damn fine team it is too.
How does your numbering work, Moffie? Is "Vemeulen" (sic) your loosehead prop?
It would appear as if you listed your backs in descending order and your forwards beneath them in ascending order, but then you have Jannie (I assume du Plessis) in the loosehead position and Beast as your tighthead . . . not to mention a lock called Louw and a flanker called Kruger.
Don't you even know how the numbering works in rugby, Moffie . . . or is it because you don't know that Beast is a loosehead and Jannie is a tighthead?
Waaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha! What a clown!
Oh shame RooiAAS finds a little bone...let me assure you though, the Beast has always played loosehead. My apologies to any readers who may have been confused by this, but in all honesty I doubt it will be a problem.
As for the listing of flanks and locks, I have always preferred the old style listing with the blind side flank splitting the locks and the props. This was the tradition....see Bryn Thomas or AC Parker if you want an illustration. You will find all my teams are listed this way. Perhaps you were not aware of this, but having been educated, I'm sure you'll forgive this little nod to rugby history.
As for Louw, best I have read he has almost always played as a loosie....you are mistaken there. And while I'm sure there are many flanks called Kruger, Juandre Kruger isn't one of them.
But it appears from your failure to comment on substance that you are in accord, or did the listing just scramble the grey matter?
Moffie, just because you've always made the same mistake doesn't make it any less wrong. It's not just that you stuffed up the order of the flanks and the locks, it's blatantly obvious that you either don't know which number is the tighthead or the loosehead or else you think Jannie is a loosehead and Beast is a tighthead.
I see your jaw has gone a bit slack and a trickle of drool is starting to dribble down your chin as you struggle to understand what I'm saying. Let me make it simple, Moffie . . . even for a half-wit. Okay, if you put jersey numbers to the players you named then those numbers look like this:
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
Okay, so far so good. You have managed to count backwards from 15 to 9 . . . very good! But now the wheels start to come off . . .
3
2
1
6
4
5
7
8
Are you seeing any kind of distortion in the pattern, Moffie? Does anything look out of place to you?
I'll ask again . . . is this because:
a) You don't know how rugby numbering works or
b) Is this because you don't know which players play in which position?
LMAO! Talk about a rugby noob!
Hang on . . . could it be c) Because you can't count backwards?
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
PWNED again!
So if I show you teams listed with the flanker splitting the locks and the props, I'm assuming you will admit that you are a petty ignoramus, who knows nothing about the traditional practices in the game.
This is a challenge.....plain and simple ....are you going to front up or back down like the yellow bellied coward you have proven yourself to be?
Yes Moffie, please go ahead and point me to a page (or book) where a well known rugby writer like JBG Thomas (just to further your pitiful rugby education, note that Bryn Thomas was known to his friends as JBG and every rugby book he ever wrote was under the name JBG Thomas) listed the forwards in the same ridiculous order you did.
Come on then big-mouth. I have JBG Thomas's book "The Greatest Lions" open in front of me where he lists the team for the first test. Can't wait for you to tell me that Ian McLaughlin was a tighthead, Fran Cotton was a loosehead, Gordon Brown (the Broon from Troon) was a flanker and Roger Uttley played lock on that tour . . . because that's what your ignorant and stupid numbering system would have us believe. The one and only idiosyncracy JBG displays is where he lists the #8 before the openside flank . . . otherwise it's #1 to #8.
So yes, I'm accepting your "challenge", Moffie. Don't be a . . . what did you call it . . . a yellow bellied coward now!
ROTFLMAO!
ou rooitwit in full flight!
Rooitwit you sound so desparate - you are now suggesting that a guy with a phd in maths cant count backwards from 15!! What a clown !! Hahahahahhahahahahahahahaha
Can I suggest you address the listing of pplayers and see if you can improve on it -eg putting in Daniles for Louw etc
Mozart
After studying Steyn very carefully last night - I am not at all sue about the no 12 position. Looking at the various issues I listed in the warm-up game - Steyn has been tought a serious lesson and he definitely improved beyond recognition. I think he may - if he keeps it up - get the number 12 jersey.
I am going to watch the Stormers - Boland game carefully - it starts in an hours time and will then see how De Villiers go this match. What is evident though - De Villiers is polaying in the no 13 jersey today - so Meter may want to use him in that position and asked Coetzee to give him game time in that position. Doubt whether that move will work out - and I agree the best candidate for 13 remains Jordaan.
I like Ruan Pienaar as a player - but believe his career as a Springbok has ended. There are way too many options coming through and it is unlikely that he would make the team in future.
As far as your forward picks are concened - I would not bank on it that Burger will come through - he may or may not - we will only be able to see what he can do in the Super 15 series. Kruger departed for Europe - he had acceptable games for the Springboks - but is not reagarded by me as indisplaceable. I think he would not need to be considered in future.
"Springbok Glory".............J.B.G Thomas......published 1961 by Stanley Paul & Co.....178-202 Great Portland Street, London ,W.1
Page 91
South Africa: L. G. Wilson; F.Roux, A. I. Kirkpatrick, J. L.Gainsford, J. P. Engelbrecht; K. Oxlee, P .de W. Uys; S. P. Kuhn, R. A. Hill, P. S. du Toit, G. H. van Zyl, A. S. Malan (capt.), J. T. Claassen, H. J. M. Pelser, D. J. Hopwood.
I reproduce it as printed, with an unusual use of semi colons and commas.
That's the team to play Wales as listed by JBG Thomas. Note, Hugo van Zyl, a flank, is listed between Piet Spiere du Toit (a prop) and Avril Malan (a lock). The standard practice in those days.
I'm glad to have assisted once again in your education.....I trust you will find this useful when scanning older teams. Hell you have probably got all sorts of locks and flanks mixed up in your pea brain.
Yawn....but it's that time again.....game, set and match!
Mofie, when you find a recognised rugby scribe who lists the forwards: 3,2,1,6,4,5,7,8 like you did, then please put it up, Until then , shut your fat face and stop your silly tennis score squeals. . . or else be a man for once in your sad and pathetic life and admit you stuffed up.
Clear? To extend your tennis analogy, the ball remains firmly in your court.
Off you go now, Moffie. There's a good fellow . . .
I admitted I had the tightlead/loosehead switched....but your point was J.B.G would never have a line up.....prop/loosie /lock.
I asked you the following:
"So if I show you teams listed with the flanker splitting the locks and the props, I'm assuming you will admit that you are a petty ignoramus, who knows nothing about the traditional practices in the game."
You accepted the challenge....and I delivered as I always do.
You are a petty ignoramus that knows nothing about the traditions of the game.....stop trying to avoid it. It's all here in black and white on one string.
Game, set and match.
I see, so now you're admitting you screwed up? Sorry, I missed the part where you admitted that you either didn't know what numbers the props wear or else you didn't know what position Jannie and Beast play. I still don't see that . . . and I still don't know why you would use an archaic numbering system that hasn't been seen for decades. Get with the times, old man.
"Get with the times"....is that the best you can do when the challenge was about historical practice? Better just lie down, you had a small edge, but were easily manipulated into another defeat......live with it.
Hahahahaha!
Don't worry Moffie, I know it's very important for you to keep telling your Gimps that you're winning these exchanges. . . but we all know they're the only ones stupid enough to believe you . . . so you keep on talking yourself up and I'll keep on handing you your pale and wrinkled old arse on a plate. The likes of Dense and Baboon-ou won't know any better.
So you can't point out the bit on this thread where you admitted you screwed up, Moffie? Wehe . . . and you suggested I might be the coward? LMAO!
Challenge made....challenge accepted.....challenge proven....game over.
Moffie, it's replies like this that often make me think you're just a little child . . . even though I know you're actually an ancient old coffin-dodger.
Please at least try to argue like an adult and if you're going to run around the room shrieking with delight and punching the air because you think you answered a question or accepted a challenge, then at the very least, try to answer the question or accept the challenge like a man.
You know which the questions are, don't you Moffie? If not, they're the ones with the question marks at the end.
There are no questions left you ancient coot, just the bitter taste in your mouth. Perhaps you should have just stayed Jalapeno, ever since you became RooiAAS again you seem to have spent most of the time on the deck.
Jal good to see you have Moffie flat on his face.
Got to love the team numbering, this from a rugby man!!
Loved the google that brought up some 1961 twit as a precedent!! Ouch
Got to love Moffie's team as well, about as spot on as his numbering!!
Careful now you are insulting JBG Thomas...a RooiAAS hero. If you read the string again you will find RooiAAS asked me to find a Thomas reference, in my team format, which I did, ending the game in my favour.. As usual the whole thing was beyond you.....it went woosh, right over your 5' 10" ceiling....hahahaha.
Actually dumbass I tend to skip most of the shit you post, I tend to skim through it and for me your prowess at the numbering was all I really needed to see. I saw a few pathetic quotes and thought here we go again its 'provincial' all over again. I just pictured your usual boorish manner telling us that the player numbering you used was in fact the correct one and that every other rugby follower was wrong. I dont give a toss who JBG is, what I got a kick out of was how stupid you are. Fuck me you dont even know how to number a rugby side.
This from an idiot who is meant to be a rugby man. Do you know anything about rugby 3,2,1 bwhahaaaaa
What position does the 10 play?
Ah yeah I forgot to post my Bok side by end of 4N:
15. Taute 14. JP 13. Serfontein 12. Frans 11. Jordaan 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Etzebeth 5. Steph du Toit 6. Kolisi 7. Elstadt 8. Coetzee
rooinek the only advice I can give if you are to avoid these white washes is not to pretend to read the persons post. Bwahahahahhaha
Nice young team snapster but not this year. Keep trying time is on your side.
Serfontein is big call so soon. Jordaan taking out Habana? Maybe at 13. Goosen - well he is still under 21 so can he last. Du Toit - has hardly played Super 15. Kolisi - again not this year.
Coenie has yet to prove he can succeed at tighthead. A good bet at loosehead if fit . How will that kneck go. In fact how will beast go hehas not been aan 80 minute player fo rsome years now and has heart palpitations. Bit like spies in that he has not lived up to original hope. If fit and well he is fine.
Remember snapster these guys are not going to be playing NH rugby. We are talking about the real deal.
Easy call for a real talent like Serfontein ahead of past it Jean at 13. Yeah, I'm pre-empting that Habana's best days are done - he proved me wrong last year and might do the same this year.
I dont care how old Goosen is, that has stuff all to do with it. He showed against Oz that he is our answer at 10.
du Toit will be huge, wont take much to be better than Jeandre Kruger.
Kolisi should have played last year.
Agreed Coenie has to prove himself at 3, that will be done this S15
Beast is world class and its bullshit that he is not an 80 min player. I'd be happy to have Kitshoff at 1 or Coenie at 1 with Marcel v/d Merwe at 3
Saffex who do you think makes a better lock Elstadt or Du Toit. I hear actually that Elstadt has shed weight to play more effectively at 7. Its asking a heck of a lot to put young Du Toit in at Bok lock this season.
You are totally wrong about Beast he is a perenial fader. My own hope was that Coenie would take the loosehead spot and Beast would play off the bench for 30 minutes as a big impact player. Beast is fast and could thrive in that role.
With Coenie's kneck situation being suspect and them saying tighthead is better for his neck - loosehead could be out. I did not like what I saw when he injured his back playing tighthead for the Cheetahs but granted its early days. Not everyone can play on both sides. He had the makings of a world class loosehead but needs to prove his worth at tighthead.
Kitshoff will hav e anice tes tagains tthe bulle. h ei sa usefull all round player getting better all the time. malherbe also looke dgood. Marcellis injured buyt= again he will have a goo dshot to impres sat the bulle.
No more nonsese about kolisi - he should have played last year. He opened with a bang and ended with a wimper. Perhaps he might do better this year. deon fourie i sa fa rbette rpalyer than him at 6 and so is Louw if you are playing a powerful pack. If the abs ha dhad our pack when playing England it would have been a different story for them. What gave a lot of cred to the Bok pack wasit loose trio. We have to b ecareful how we proceed. With Bissie back and another mongrel lock to partner Etzebeth there maybe a place for Deon Fourie the best of the small loosies.
It would be difficult to see how Elstadt would shed weight given he was never overweight and did not look particularly muscled up. He just looks like a solid unit.
Yeah would be a big call to put Steph du Toit in the Bok side but that would depend on how he goes in the S15. What I saw of this guy for the Baby Boks reminded me of what Etzebeth did a year earlier for the Baby Boks. While Serfontein was named player of the U20 comp, I thought Steph du Toit was even better.
This kid is big and looks for action. At 2m and 118kg last year, he is already big enough, but will get bigger. He just looks like the perfect partner for Etzebeth. If he has a good S15, I'd pick him for the Boks and start him off the bench if Bekker is fit to start. I was not impressed with Jeandre Kruger at test level, he lacks clout - Steph du Toit will make a far bigger impression.
No way in hell is Fourie better than Kolisi. Louw is too big for a true 6, he is better suited to 7. I like Fourie but more as an allrounder who can play 6 or 2. Kolisi has that rare quality of being able to slip tackles much like Bismark does. Kolisi is the real deal
To me the more informative part of de Flatus' post, is who is left out. He has this sneaky way of dropping his prior picks.....without acknowledging that he blew it again. So let me interpret.
1) Taute has quietly been moved to fullback. We hear no more about his main pick for the last 12 months....Taute at centre.
2) Mvovo had been deep sixed. And Jordaan who is a centre is preferred.
3) Lambie our only proven young back, doesn't even make the starting team.
4) Coenie a player with a serious neck question is preferred to Jannie a previous Sapp favourite.
5) Brussouw disappears from the Sapp scene.....but there is no fetcher in the team.
6) The blind side flank Elstadt he wanted for Stormers lock to replace the injured Etzebeth.
This is a naive team , chosen by a guy who has never understood the needs of test rugby.....and an attempt to slip away from his previous picks.
Moffie, Moffie, Moffie - nothing is set in stone when it comes to players. No-one is being dropped but as per usual let me counter your pathetic attempt......not difficult given you know stuff all about rugby.
Taute I have said all along is equally good at 15 and 13 - FACT
I have not selected Mvovo recently I went for Habana but am making the bold call that he might be past it - your facts are wrong again, surprise, surprise!
Yeah well I am a Lambie fan, but Goosen is better at 10 and Taute better than Lambie at 15 - tough call on Lambie, but I would be more than happy with Lambie at 10 or 15 as he is a class act. I just prefer these other two in those positions - get it?
Yeah I going for the young man Coenie if fit, time to find a replacement for Jannie, he is getting on but is still worthy - that was an age call
Wrong Kolisi has made my side for the last year and is a fetcher you dumb arse
The only reason I want Elsatdt at lock for the Stormers is because Etzebeth is injured and the Stormers have no depth at lock - how stupid are you. What the hell has Elstadt needed at lock for the Stormers got to do with him playing 7 for the Boks huh?
This is a forward thinking side that beats the crap out of your conservative shit, the same kind of poor selections that won us all of 57% last year.
The only player I have dropped is Habana and Jannie on grounds of age and Lambie on the grounds of Serfontein who cannot be ignored. Get this into your head - nothing is set in stone
So you admit Serfontein is better than Taute at 13.....and any effort put into Taute at 13 was a waste.
Nope have not seen enough of Serfontein, but he is a special talent so its a bold call I back and Taute moves to 15 to accomodate Serfontein as Taute is equally good at 13 and 15 as I have always said.
The loser is Lambie, I see the inclusion of Serfontein over Lambie as a positive. Serfontein showed amazing promise last year and his performance in the warm up game announced his arrival this year at the senior level.
Of the young guns, Taute, Lambie and Goosen - Lambie is the weakest and therefore dispensable. Dont get me wrong though, Lambie is pure class, I just rate these other two above him, but only just and most of that has to do with physicality at 15 and Goosen is just the real deal at 10.
So moving Taute to 15 is just my way of making sure I had Taute and Serfontein in the starting 15. But nothing is set in stone. I'd be more than happy with Taute at 13 and Lambie at 15.
Nice try Moffie but as per usual weak as ever - try a little harder next time. These counters are getting a little tedious
No no Saffie you lie.
Just the other day you said that "Lambie should be at 15, and Taute should be at 13- It is that easy". FACT.
To get all the best players on the field and that Taute would be waisted at 15 and he is the best number 13 in South Africa.
The whole of South Africa and NewZealand said that Taute is better at fullback than center, except you and Tautes dog, goldfish and blind grandmother.
Now you are rearranging the whole team positions to get your favourite players on the pitch.
A spot needs to be found for Serfontein(even out of his preferred position) , so now Taute must make way at 13, and Lambie now drops out of the starting team, as a spot needs to be made for Taute.
Talk about musical chairs or what!
Wee Saffies team-
15. Taute 14. JP 13. Serfontein 12. Frans 11. Jordaan 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Coenie 4. Etzebeth 5. Steph du Toit 6. Kolisi 7. Elstadt 8. Coetzee
Look here you stupid GuyLover, dont accuse me of lying when you clearly have no sharp tools in your box.
Read my response to Moffie and try catch a wake up you halfwit
Dinna worry Kiwi, Taute will go the way of Mvovo. Sapp knows he is never going to be a centre....this is all about saving face.
Nope, I have always said that Taute was equally good at 13 and 15 - FACT
I have also said that Lambie is equally good at 10 and 15 - FACT
I prefer Taute to Lambie, so sadly Lambie loses out to Serfontein, its that simple - but obviously beyond your grasp
The old two step on crepe rubber soles. A week ago Taute was non negotiable at 13 and not a fullback, now he is a fullback. It's soooo funny and predictable.
Moffie I wondered how long it would take you to resort to lies. Taute has never been non negotiable at 13 and I have never said he is not a fullback - why lie to try make a point, are you fucking stupid?
Here are the facts, a week ago I did not consider Serfontein as a starter as I wanted to see how he went in the S15 - well he has arrived early thanks to his warm up performance where the name Danie Gerber was being branded about regarding his performance.
My call on Taute at 13 was based on Goosen and Lambie being in the Bok equation. From this logic dictates that Goosen play 10, Taute 13 and Lambie 15. Get it thick old man?
Now Serfontein comes into the equation and it has to be at centre. Goosen is our best 10, so he remains at 10 - so now the choice is between Lambie and Taute at 15 - I'd go with the more physical Taute.
Now if there is any of this logic that does not penetrate your thick skull - feel free to ask, I have plenty of time on my hands!
We area really argueing about rubbish here and then make selections on a basis best described as a joke. Lets look at the different players:-
Francois Steyn
Mozart thinks that Francois Steyn would end up being a ful back, - Saffex says his selectio at 12 is a no brainer.
think he may have potential at full back (where he started his career) - but is unlikely to happen if he continues like he did last Friday - he will exclusively be used as a no 12 center by the Sharks and his inclusion at full back is not remoely possible.
Taute
Disregarding the fact that Taute never played center for two years - and then was moved by the lions to center because of non-availability of their estbblished centers - Meyer selected him at center. He had minimal recent experience as a center and that showed when he actually did not perform to expectations in that position.
Mozart condemned him outright and Saffex went on rearguard campaign. Meyer and Coetzee saw what happened and felt that Taute should in future play in the position of full back - the position in which he himself prefer to play.
Frankly Saffex finally admitted that Taute is more suited to full back.
Over the past two years Taute was a very good full back for the Lions. He as so good he was the top full back top scorer of points in the Test Rugby points table on Super 15 perforers. I saw some encouraging signs as to Taute;s performances at 15 in the two warm up games, He for instances joint the backline a couple of times and showed real progress - scoring a try and having a critical role in scoring of another one.
I tend to agree with Saffex in this case - I think he will end up at full back and will be a damn good full back as well.
Habana
The top perfromance years in general of professiona rugby players is normally between 25 and 30 years of age. I agree thre are exceptions - which meets requirements at a younger age - but would limit those to between 15 and 20% of the total participants in international sport. Some really great players can go on to play until they are 32-33 years of age - but even in those cases there us a inclinethat sets in and gradually becomes more noticeable as the years go by.
Habana this year will be 30 years of age - ie in the age category that most players om gemeral showing top performances. At 29 years of age he was still the SA Player of the Year in 2012. Saffex did soften his stance slightly - but in essence kept to his mantra - Habana is too old to qualify for selection.
Habana was a top mperformer in 2012 and in the warmj up matches was really tops - so Saffex goes balltic snd anf krrp on shouting Hanaba must go - he is too old. Considering it independently as a neutal - Saffex's stance is real hogwash
De Villiers
De Villiers .this year is 32 years of age and as far as I am concerned - there is a minute chance that he may yet succeed to play for the Springboks - but the chaance of success is remote. In 2012 De Villiers was statisically our best inside center - but that to my mind meant very little. He was an essentai; part of the dead backline of the Stormers inasmuch as he showed very little and taking into account the vry poor performances of the Springbok backline in 2012 - him as the bst center in SA means something like having to gavor him bcause he was best amongst a totally under-performin group of centers
Mozart - despite all your comments I think that De Villiers will have to be replaced this year.
Serfontein
There can be no doubt that Sefoentin gas real star potential - he was not the Man of the Series for Under 20 WC at the age of 18 for nothing. Since then he played Under 21 rugby for the Bulls. A rare xception wa when he was selectede unexpectedly to play for the Bulls CC tam against WP. The whole Bulls team display that match can only be described as bullshit.
Serfontein is back in the UNder 20 WC squad and his latest performance in the Bulls recent Super 15 warm- up game was spectacular and really exciting. Hwever, I believe Serfontein should get further experoience on Super 15 this year - but we all now that the Bulls are the worst judges of centers imaginable and there is a chance that he may never gets game time as a center,
If he does get game time - it is likelyt that he would continue hsi playing career at 12 ad be a real future chalenger for selection in that position. It si obvious that Francois Steyn is feeling the heat and has upped his game considerablly on his return from injuty. I really believe that in another years time Serfotntein would challene strongly to play for the Springboks. The jury is out whether that should be at 13 - where his suitavlity can only be a wild guess. We all by now knows that Saffex is the high priest of the change playes positions at all costs belief.
I sincerely believe this player is going to be the best no `12 center within the next few years. The other countries may cotton on and try to lure him away - so my advice would be to select Serfonein to be on the bench for the Springboks in one of the June tests and give him a few minutes playing time - so as to ward off the wolves from using big moneyto lure him away.
Lambie and Goosen
I just love it - we really have two exceptional talents here challenhing for the Springbok selection at 10. Compettion in both and I am exited by theprospect of seeing them both at work, My guess is that boh woud be in the Sprongbok squad and most likely to be playing for the Springboks on a rotation basis
Hougaard
Was iffy in 2012 - sincerely hope he gets his act together in 2013 Will have to show a lot of improvment in performances and I sincerely hope he does.
Du Toit
An extrenekt wxciting prospct - but can only be evaluated properly after playing a full season of Super 15 rugby. I am verty optimistic about his chances of success - but the proof od the pudding is in the eating. So leir wach him with interest.
Elstadt
Exceptionally good player - Meyer should do with him what I sugested is to be done in the Serfontein case - otherwise he would be lost completely for Springbok rugby.
