Bok team vs France Frogs

15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 80 caps, 65 pts (13t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulon) – 21 caps, 53 pts (10t, 1p)
13 – Jesse Kriel (Canon Eagles) – 57 caps, 60 pts (12t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Wild Knights) – 67 caps, 45 pts (9t)
11 – Kurt-Lee Arendse (Vodacom Bulls) – 4 caps, 15 pts (3t)
10 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 24 caps, 22 pts (1t, 4c, 3p)
9 – Faf de Klerk (Canon Eagles) – 43 caps, 25 pts (5t)
8 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 19 caps, 5 pts (1t)
7 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz) – 65 caps, 15 pts (3t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 72 caps, 40 pts (8t)
5 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 60 caps, 15 pts (3t)
4 – Eben Etzebeth (Cell C Sharks) – 107 caps, 15 pts (3t)
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 55 caps, 5 pts (1t)
2 – Bongi Mbonambi (Cell C Sharks) – 53 caps, 55 pts (11t)
1 – Ox Nche (Cell C Sharks) – 16 caps, 0 pts

Replacements:

16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 56 caps, 65 pts (13t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 68 caps, 5 pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (unattached) – 39 caps, 0 pts
19 – Marvin Orie (DHL Stormers) – 8 caps, 0 pts
20 – Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs) – 28 caps, 15 pts (3t)
21 – Cobus Reinach (Montpellier) – 22 caps, 40 pts (8t)
22 – Manie Libbok (DHL Stormers) – uncapped
23 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 34 caps, 110 pts (22t)

Really bad selection if you ask me. Glad to see Willie is back at 15 but some really poor choices. 

Faf, Frans, Mostert. 

We should had Jenkins in the team and Koch to start.

Going into a test again without a 10 who can control the game with the boot (territory or poles).
At least their is a specialist flyhalf on the bench.

The one dimensional jessica kriel has been retained.

I am starting to lose faith in Rasnaber. They dont seem to be willing to experiment and evolve their game.

With the world cup like 10 months away, winning tests is less relevant on this EOYT. 
What is more important is to be testing players where there is limited depth. 

Damien Delande is cemented into the team. 

The complete absence of Hendrikse is interesting… to me he was  part of the issue last week. I would prefer Willemse at 12 vs Dud…but could one really start Libbok for the first time against France.

The howls about Mostert are amazing…he was our best forward last week and the de facto lock on the field for much of the WC final, which was probably the best Bok forward show in living memory. Although unfortunately this means we are stuck with DudToit at 7….a joke, but one of Harrassmiss’ ‘slim’ ideas.

Ox for Kitshoff again can be traced to disappointing performance. Bongi for Marx probably has more to do with balance, but it’s disappointing how little change we are getting out of the talent that is Marx.

Arendse for Mapimpi is inexplicable.Wiese and Malherbe are both lucky to be there. What a pity Harrassmiss couldn’t take a small risk and play Roos.

I look at a guy like Jake White, who is always willing to adapt….and happy to be the coach even if it was for a high school team…..100% skin in the game. And then I look  at Harrassmiss….snake oil artist and totally inflexible. But like a clock he was right once….restoring our forward dominance and defence. Now the time has come to broaden the skill set.

Look, Rassie did a fantastic job to make the boks competitive, but we got exposed this entire year. Just watched Mallet and Swys lose their heads and the boks kick at all cost when their are overlaps on. 

Even the all blacks just defended narrow and put players deep. Yet, we have some of the best steppers in the game and we can’t buy them space. 

Pleased to see that Libbok is at least on the bench as I have no confidence in Willemse at #10.

This French side is a watered down squad and many of the top players have been rested for this tour.

So the Bokke are in with a chance of pulling off a win.

Slim but a chance.

The only difference between 2018 and now is perception and weakening of opposition. That's it. Erasmus is as good now as he has ever been. The data doesn't lie. He is very good at currying favour and politicking, as well as slipping the heavy punches of culpability ahead of time. The Boks have sadly played well below their potential throughout his tenure. At least Coetzee had some ambition, even if it was reckless. I will say, that it doesn't help that we have so many players coasting a fine line. Many of our better players have regressed the past two seasons. Therefore, there are fewer obvious calls. Maybe 5 positions are set in stone, give or take a couple. We need someone with a strong personality and leadership to steady the ship. My call was for Ackermann, though I haven't been following domestic rugby for some time now. Jake would be another obvious call. 

Orie is a pretender. It time on the field as a Bok has been an unmitigated disaster

This whole setup stinks. A bok coach finally get the support from Saru and the the dream time on the job when our previous coaches only lasted anywhere from 2 months to 4 years which was the longest since readmission. Rassie would be the only coach that has done 6 years. 

He came in and went on about players will know their ranking and where they stand against other players. Then we keep hearing about player road maps etc. Yet, this entire year have been a disaster in selection and bringing in players. 

The threw the Welsh test by selecting an entire team of novices to test rugby. Almost to shut the fans up. 

Then, they rely on injured players or those like Dweeb just got thrown to the wolves. He had one great game for the stormers, didn't feature and in his last game bombed completely. Now he is I the A team. 

The we have the issue on Flyhalf, Pollard would always be a question given his injury situation, but if you had a ranking System, training camps and you have exceptional URC teams that had 2 SA teams in the final and beating the very same Irish teams who's best players we played against on Saturday. 

Yet, the whole year there were chances to give the next in line a crack. Why pick Vermeulen or Steyn?!! 

Now they go on about that these guys need managing and will be there next year. 

Yet we have so many great players putting there hands up. 

Coetzee got booted but he is very similar to Loue we had in the squad, can cover all 3 back row positions. Kwagga is great but bit of a lightweight. 

They were flirting with Goosen and Jantjies, both players had hardly played. 

This reminds me of Meyer that did exactly the same thing and hung to players too long. Some even were injured heading into the World Cup. 

Now, the only focus is the world cup. 

What I also don't get is why Gelant is not in the team? 

It just looks like a team that is full of hype and no substances. The world cup victory feels hollow. 

We got lucky, lost to NZ, played Japan that beat Scotland and Ireland who went as far as they could. 

Then Wales was a tight game before we got to play against a flat England. 

Yes, the guys showed up, played with intensity and didn't drop their standards once. 

Yet, these same old players are being used no matter if they are injured or out of form. 

Their has been no succession or the same old players being dropped. 

Kolosi had one good game and the he is the best. Yet Ardi Savea just plays heart out. Josh Van Der Vlier just add so much value, yet, we stuck with Kolosi and never know when he'll show up. 

What did Mostert do against Ireland. He scored a try that required strength. Took all his lineouts. Made the second most tackles. Was always on the ball. And our scrums were better after he was on…probably due to prop changes on both sides, but it’s hard to say our scrums were worse…..and this has been true all the way back to the WC.

 Dave all you have in response is a claim he is a string bean and gets dominated in contact….perceptions. My perception is he is no weaker in contact than Dud Toit, who was totally cleaned out by the Irish 6… one real example.

I see it takes no physicality to bust through tackles and a goal line defense. Got it….but it takes physicality to swan on the wing.

Being heavy and being strong are two different things. We South Africans seem to have difficulty accepting this. It seems to me that weight is tied to masculinity. Yet our heavies are often bettered by lighter and more athletic opponents, or they at least gain parity. I have never seen Mostert be physically dominated or struggled to track attackers. If you can reference such a thing that can be observed frequently then do bring it to my attention. 

He did run a good line yes, but had to brake atleast 2 tackles to score....I didn't see Pieter or DA, contribute that much on Sat.

Dud Toit never breaks tackles…he is the most feeble forward ball carrier we have ever relied on….for so damn long!

Indeed, this kicking business is as ridiculous as ever.

As Swys pointed out during his rant, overlaps are gold at any level of rugby. If you're not taking your chance when you have one, then what are you actually trying to do?

The grubber business just drives home exactly what is going on at the Boks.

They want to kick to turn teams around at all costs...5 point opportunities included.

To me, it's absolute madness to have such embarrassing riches in forward talent and to then waste the opportunities it creates. I feel like that's probably our issue, the fact that our forwards are as dominant as they are and that it creates a distorted view of how we should be playing.

Surely, the less dominant your forwards are the more conservative your backs should be. And the opposite must then also be true...with more dominance creating more opportunities for calculated risk/creativity.

It's not like one is suggesting that the Boks backs should have a license to outdo the Harlem Globetrotters. But damn, can we at least match a team like Argentina for attacking play? Despite not having a great team, they at least understand the concept of capitalizing on momentum by upping the intensity on the attack at times.

The Boks want to be the Arsenal of world rugby and only take tries that they can "pass into the net". It's not working, it's not entertaining and it's far from extracting anything near maximum value from team/talent available.

Well said plum, perfectly summed up what is wrong with our attack. It also doesn’t help that Swys who is our best attacking coach in SA got booted out for a quota coach who only experience is one year as EP u 21 coach. Rassie was going on about Stick in shit knowledge of the sevens game but why not go to source and bring Neill Powel who is the mastermind behind our sevens success. 

I would love to see Swys and Powel involved. 

Also, they now have made Kolbe the official kicker. 

Rassie ran his race and should have been fired after the lions series. Both for chickening out of the previous year and also for his water boy antics. Using Kolisi race as a ploy when we all know Kolisi is a token captain. Probably why they are so desperate to hold on to aging Duane as he is the real captain. 

Excellent Post Plum.

Forward dominance does not necessarily lend itself to more expansive rugby. Our 2 pod system is very predictable and too deep. When shallow, it all comes down to a hero pass to 13 with no real structure. Our base patterns are a relic of the past. And when I say past, I mean of the amateur era - Australia were already utilizing/inventing the structure we have seen emerge over the past eight years. But that's the Erasmus blueprint. So, you can have any attack coach you want, but he is hamstrung by the overall model. Look at Coetzee for instance. He was seen as dour, until he himself took the reigns. Whether you like him or not, the Boks were certainly able to cut teams apart. It was a time where it was clearly observable that the players were the weak link, not the gameplan, with costly turnovers (4 for tries against New Zealand in one test!) and handling errors. 

It was a time where it was clearly observable that the players were the weak link, not the gameplan, with costly turnovers (4 for tries against New Zealand in one test!) and handling errors.

It wont be a popular statement on here.

That said, coaches must do with the players they have. Coaches who implement game plans they do not have the players for are the problem.

It would take at least two generations of players to bring the players SA rugby would need to execute something else than their current absence of rugby.

It wont happen. It is too late.

Game is about to start, where is everybody?

France up by 3 after 2 mins.

That will be red

Has to be red!

Yup. Pieter-Steph off. Really stupid mistake.

Probably game over unless we can get a Frog to lose his temper.

Good back play by the Frogs

The Kriel is a good defender myth is blown up by Penaud and Kolisi makes it a try,