Boks back to being useless

and the passengers were exposed for who they are. Only two players came out with any credibility after that test and they were Etzebeth and Vermeulen, for the rest they were either average on the day or should not have been there in the first place.

Willie had a game to forget as did Habana. Surley the ineffective, defensively liable Basson will never play for the Boks again, he is useless. JJ and Jean had little to do, Morne was his usual boring self and its time for Pienaar to go. Pienaar is indecisive and adds no zip at all.

In the forwards we started the scrums well then seemed to lose ground for some unknown reason. The frontrow was at best solid, Steenkamp was yet again exposed, but stupid Meyer will no doubt retain him. Etzebeth is a far better line-out jumper that Kruger will ever be. Kruger was pathetic, as Bob Skinstad said, his lack of physicality in clearing out rucks is a concern. He adds no value to the Bok side at all, he is a liability.

Louw has been ineffective in both tests to date, he is not an openside flankers backside. Alberts is past his best, he too often goes awol. Elstadt or v/d Walt are far better option and I dont get why they are both overlooked by short sighted Meyer.

That was a pathetic Bok performance given the display the week before. Therein lies the difference between this Bok side carrying too many passengers and the AB side. Could you imagine the AB side putting 60 points over a side one week and scraping by the next.

Where was Jean's leadership in that game

See Mike this is where your rugby ignorance is exposed. Go check the try by the 13 again. Jannie is the man marking the 13, JJ is covering wider......JJ does not trust his prop on the inside to make the tackle given its a centre on a prop, he tries to adjust and can only go high and is off balance........the execution was poor, but had everything to do with Jannie not quick enough to make the initial hit.

That is not Jannie's fault as he is a prop.......its just the reality of broken play when a prop ends up in the defensive line. So you choose to ignore the circumstances of the situation, when it was clear that JJ felt exposed on the inside. Had Jean been on his inside then Jean would have made the tackle and JJ would have covered the outside........that is the fact of the matter.

JJ has to go high and is totally unaligned, he hardly gets a hand on the 13...............for the rest of the match, JJ defence was spot on. The day JJ starts missing one on one tackles in structured backline play, is the day we need to start to worry.

In broken play you need to take circumstances into consideration, having a prop on your inside covering a 13 is never a good thing, no wonder JJ was left wanting........test players expose these mismatches.......that is what happened.

Our front row should be Coenie, Strauss and Jannie. Jannie is not ideal, but better than Coenie @ 3.

Meyer should get Bakkies back as a partner for Etzebeth - that is until PSdT is ready.

Flo and Kolisi should be our loosies untill Arno Botha is back.

Fourie du Preez should come back and SARU must just find the funds to let that happen.

Vermeulen is not ideal (a bit slow), but his grunt against Oz and ABs will be needed.

Louw is no open sider and he will be exposed even more against teams that play more up tempo. if the pace of the game is too high you can expect louw to be nothing more than a passenger. louw pienaar and steenkamp are epic failures i am sorry to say.

LOUW MUST GO

as always mike your spot on. seems like you have a higher rugby IQ than old meyer.

To be fair i have no idea mike. louw is only effective when the teams that the boks play against dont generally play towards to ruck. teams like AB and wallies as you do know target that area or the game more than any other side and mark my words old loopy louw will be left on the back burner again. his selection make close to zero sense seeing that you have already 2 massive ball carriers like alberts and vermeulen. the normal approach would have been to pick a ligher smaller faster open sider to counter the others lack of athletic abilty. meyers inablity to indentify this area once again shows his ignorance. a player like brussouw would have filled that gap nicely but the overweight plonker louw still enjoys the time of day. why i dont understand. since his reselection he as had some moments of brillance but beyond that nothing that makes me a firm believer he is the one of the open side role.

pienaar ont he other hand was made to look like a snot nosed school girl with his service. du preez would have given that much needed speed at the ruck. fourie needs to be bought out of this contract asap.we need him badly

Moz, the faster flank you are asking for is Arno Botha, but while he is injured we may consider Kolisi (tend to vanish in tight games, but overall he is reasonably fast). Another option could be Deon Fourie.

edit: Oh I forgot to say - Minnie remains an option for me, but Meyer will never select him because there is this believe that he leaks too many penalties and his discipline is not good.

Minnie again had a blinder this weekend for the Lions against the Blue Bulls.

Until the Boks get an attacking/thinking flyhalf the backline will always be lacking.

JDV is not what he was 4 years ago, time for him to move over.

Bizzie should be captain and Doctor dup is playing out of his league.

My backline would be the following:

15 Lambie

14 Habana

13 JJ

12 Serfontein

11 Willie

10 Goosen when fit /the Guy who played for the Kings in Supert15

9 Fourie

kolisi arno botha and coetzee are in essence more mobile ball carriers but lack the skilset of playing towards the ball come ruck time. playing them might extend the range of your back in terms of speed the ruck will be a bridge to far needless to say. the sad truth is the SA rugby system does not breed the likes of hooper and mccaw/pocock. brussouw was a freak in that respect. fourie play more towards the ball at the ruck but just lacks that edge. coetzee and botha are the same so you can pick them both. kolisi might be the better bet but he is not a true open sider sadly.

in terms of the backline one cant lay to much blame at there feet as the type of ball they got was nothing short of rubbish. the ball they did get steyn somehow through it those ball into the "steyn blackhole" where nothing every seems to happen when he has the ball other than kicking it blindly. if the ruck speed quickens the likes of le roux and co will run amok on the pitch.

i agree mike JJ has a issue on defence but he is learning though but with the likes of nono and co waiting i am sure they will test that weaker outside tackle arm of his.

Our coach is shite, will never get beyond shite and shite he will stay.

Beast played the ball once in 4 tests. Jannie is just there cos he can be there. Does nothing. Hookers are great and let them fight it out who plays, no pronblem. Eben locks by himself. We do not have another lock in the Bok team at the moment but plenty of great players in the CC. Loosies are a selection joke. Flow and Alberts should not be there, we have much better talent in the CC. Lappies is a must now. Duane needs help and should stay but if there was a change Meyer would bring back Spies as first choice. Fool.

Pienaar is a joke and an insult to the 9's we have. At worst we could play Sarel but we have a fit Reinach, van Zyl and Screuder all in front of him. Steyn must go. Again at worst bring in the 'Cat' with Lambie, SP Marais and Zeilinger all possibilities.

Serfontien and JJ ia a must, simple as that. Brian is what he is and is an aoutomatic.

A solution for a winger and fullback should be found between SP Marais, Willie, Jean, Rhule, Lambie, Eberson (to help the loosies with turnovers).

SA Rugby and the national side is an absolute mess and just wait, if it continues like this, lets see what a mess it will be when we are finished our two away games of the Championship.

the thing is the team looks and are chosen the same there is no variety at all. forwards are all the same. louw is for me by far the biggest issue. that is what worrys me to no end. his skillset unbalances everything. alberts and vermeulen are ball carriers and that is there role you dont expect them to force a turnover on the deck its not there skills and not what there are picked for.

the AB and wallies will see this and when they whip up the pace of the game expect the overpaid tourist aka louw to be nothing more than a passenger during the whole game

 I don't know what you guys are going on about but for me I thought our tactics were completely wrong. Two things I hate about Meyers game plan. Channel 1 bash up and a fly half that sits deep in the pocket. Our ball carriers got exposed by not having enough support and getting isolated . I also think that morne and pienaar need to be blamed for this. Their passing to the forwards was terrible. 

The kick chase was my other problem. We caught the ball on our 10 meter line, morne reverts to type and bombs it down the field. The chaser fails to catch it. The Argy backs runs it back, few offloads later are on our 10 meter line with ball in hand. Dagg and co ripped us to shreds last year with the exact same tactics. 

spot on mike and corn.....the meyer rugby template consists of bashing the oppposing team into the ground. that is the only plan and if the other team forwards matches them in terms of the contact point the meyer game plan falls to bits. there is nothing left to attack.....

mike as you said he talks the talk but does not walk the walk in terms of selections. the real test will come against the wallies and mark my words they are in for a rude awakeing. meyers plan of attack is far to rigid and its stuck in the medievil ages of rugby.

 AJ please, Jean was the best back on the field. Morne got high ratings from the various rating agencies yet ou maaaike goes on like this.  Your predicitng Morne would implode goal kicking wise couldnt have been more wrong hahahahahhaa

Please read my post re where are the boks and get back on track or rather on track as the word back is dubious in this context.

It’s not a matter of suddenly becoming useless. Their collapse under pressure was inevitable. It was just a matter of time before the cracks widened to gaping holes. Remember their performance against Scotland?

The Pumas were awful last week and decided to stand up and play a little this week. We were tested and found wanting … as expected.

JJ is trouble with a capital T. He doesn’t have the first inkling on how to play defensively. Not a clue. He’s just a lad with a lot of gas. Should be dropped immediately.  Not a Bok. That much is very clear now. How much longer are we gonna have to suffer his ignorance??

It’s going to be interesting down under. Reckon this is our last win of the championship.

Thing is … we just need a few tweaks and our team will be transformed.

Is it really that difficult to see???

spot on cleancut it does not take a rocket scientist to see that the meyer crew's senseless game plan wont bring nothing to the SA public but tears and anger.

this is not entertainment this torture....watching the boks play is like being forced to listen to a backstreet boys marathon weekend nonstop......

truth be told there is not other options in this squad to pick from......under the game pattern that we are playing and the style of coaches and methods in place its like polishing turd...or as the texas like to say it does not matter how you prefume a pig it still stays a pig. the meyer game plan required 150 % commitment and energy or else the gain dominance pattern falls to bits and ast he result he has picked his team and squad to that. the issues of the breakdown wont be fixed as neither kolisi nor botha has that skillset so what do we have to pick from ? louw is the poor mans brussouw and we are stuck with that. the backline has zero penatration as morne is so deep and lateral that he provides no go forward. slow width and speed of pass that has been a cancer in his rugby for years once again shines its rather ugly head.

the issues are not just selection related to the issues wont be fixed by merely swopping a few players around. meyer has no structures in place in terms of picking players according to roles but his blue bull pattern and after looking at the lions destroy them over the weekend one has to ask is that the model or rugby we want to impose on the world ?

i concur mike...nothing that the pumas on the pitch was mindblowing at all just basic SH rugby and the bok pack was left ragged and out of shape as the pace or the game at times left them in the cold (mind the pun)

the AB and wallies play way more up tempo and i am sure the mckenzie and co watched this game closely and are surely licking there lips

our loosies arrived at the ruck that split second to late. the recycling speed was nowhere near that what it was in soweto. the pumas had more numbers to the rucks than what we had so the ball that we did won as your stats show was such rubbish quality that the likes of pienaar and steyn had backfoot, slow ball. as you can see the game 70 rucks to 49 is not a huge difference but it shows you played more doesnt.

the boks ruck speed was not great only due to louw not doing his job....botha is a faster ball carrier but he is still a ball carrier and not a open sider so he would then need to replace either alberts or vermeulen.....louw's breakdown skills is the reall issue

yes moz at this level just winning your rucks is not enough but without clean quick ruck ball at a high speed defensive lines are to organised to breakdown with slower ball. there was some bad option taking from pienaar and steyn as they wanted to moved bad slow ball and all that does is transfer the pressure from inside to out. steyn laying so deep that the defense lines just shift on does not help running slow ball either. so the worst possible cocktail of attacking rugby realised....

as mike said correctly the pumas shifted quicker and the boks so the ball coming out was light years ahead than that of the boks. that is why you cant read to much into stats moz as stats dont reflect the game...unless you have a average ruck speed stat that we can have a look at but from the eye the boks were clearly second when it came to the ruck.

one can practice turning you ruck speed up but i saw zero adaptablity from the boks in the whole game so it shows meyer and co did not pick up on this which is shocking for me..

 Boks back to being useless  And Saffex back to being an asshole.  But then again I suppose he cannot help it, Nê Pappie.

Mike just as I expected you are too stupid to understand that JJ's miss was not just a miss and that circumstances involving a prop on your inside played a big part.......but context and circumstances are not a strength of yours......your take on rugby has to be simple......just plain black or white.......you dont have the brain capacity to understand the intricacies of what really goes on, on a rugby field.

JJ missed that tackle for he was not fully committed, just like Jean missed his earlier on. Funny how nothing was said of that, but because it was JJ, we have his anti brigade jumping on the wagon and wanting to move him to wing.......what a bloody joke.

JJ has been a revelation at 13 and any coach with half an ounce of credibility would invest in him there. One average game by Willie because he missed a few damn tough high balls, which he made a great attempt at securing and suddenly he is not the answer at 15.

Before we even begin to worry about our class acts like JJ and Willie, the real issue is getting rid of useless passengers like Basson, Pienaar, Kruger, Steenkamp and Alberts and to a lesser extent the likes of Morne, Jean, Jannie and Louw must go. We have far better options in Mvovo, v/d Heever, de Allende, Serfontein, Lambie, v/Zyl, Reinach, Coenie, Nkanyane (who impressed at 3 for the Cheetahs this weekend), Kitshoff, de Jager (who was NOT dominated the Stormers locks and yet again had a great game for the Cheetahs at 5 this weekend), Brussouw, Kolisi, v/d Walt, Elstadt, Coetzee, Labascagne and CJ Stander

I've been reading your lame excuses for the useless HouGat all year long and I see it coming through thick and heavy for the useless JJ now.

Bottom line, Stupid ... you can fabricate as much horseshit as possible re JJ ... in the end you'll just humble yourself before us all ... again ... and confess your stupidity and rugby ignorance.

So why not spare us the many months of drivel and fess up now ... hmm?

How about it?

Moz thanks for the sanity. Again I say watch how few players the Boks committed to the breaddown. Here I believe was part of the issue. The Pumas pack play more NH style rugby. Mallet identified poor cleaning out by both props and Juandre.

Laying the blame on the looses is unbalanced.

Bok backline certainties if avauilable are du preez, Morne, Jean JJ, Jan Habana Wille and Lambie.  how much has Meyer got wrong precious little. 

But I dont think it has sunk in what a ferocious effort the Pumas put in. Its the reason France is beaten so often.  

Dave, you are overrating JJ.....admitedlly he is an athletic type and boy they didn't come more athletic than Spies and look what became of him. Time will tell whether he becomes a decent rugby player, right now I can't say he is.

yes beeno your 100% right but if you have a look at the footage your boy tourist louw seems to get into the breakdowns every 3 or 4 times after he gets played. as you described him as the hybrid that meyer is after...and much like he motoring coutnerpart the toyota prius is all glitz and glamour but zero substance to its performance. the boks defence pattern requires that they commit less players to the ruck to setup there first tier of defence. on attack louw is even more awol than on defence and he does not shut the ruck down as a proper open sider should do

Hey Muncher … just curious … when your finished … well … munching … do you ever have that glazed doughnut look about you??