CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jun 2013, 23:06#8
I have no problem with Louw - he really is a top loosie. However, I do not think Meyer really knows what he is looking for - Coetzee (who had a very average to poor season in 2013 in Super 15 and was really not of any good when he came on on Saturday) and Kolisi (also a relatively poor season in 2013 with knock on of balls , missed tackles and too many penalties given away) are no fetchers and really do not bring enough to the game to be considered.
However, Meyer is consistent in one thing - he is not about to change his mind about players. If he likes them he Is going to keep them in the team - even if their performances are piss-poor. The players he sticks with now were all in the EOYT squad - anybody else is not to be considered in the absence of a host of injuries to his favoured players.
He himself said he made selection errors last year - but he apparently has learnt nothing from those errors - so we are back to a coach that pick people and then refuse to recognise their deficiencies until it is too late. He still stick with poor performing players in key positions.
The best fetcher other than Louw is Brussow - but I have also have reservations about him. He has some problems as to penalties - lets at least e honest about that - he is smallish in built and has some defensive deficiencies as a result (all of thee can be statistically proven), but he is a better loosie than either Cotzee or Kolisi.
Brussow's deficiencies has in Super 15 this year largely been nullified by his co-loosies - Labuchagnne and Philip van der Walt. However, that would not be the case with Spies and Alberts in the team. Spies is useless - Alberts too slow to be in time at breakdowns. Botha would be a good loosie combination with Brussow - but then he has to play at 8. Meyer will never consider the need for that type of thing and even if he brings in Brussow he is not going to function as well as he should - because of he deficiencies of the preferred other loosies of Meyer.
The fact that Louw did well last year has much to do with the Vermeulen - Louw combination at 6 and 8 - but was hampered by Alberts at 7. If Alberts were indeed up to standard - the combination would really have ben better and produce really positive results. On Saturday the combination did not work as well as it should despite the presence of Botha and 7. The real problem remains Spies at 8 - a really poor choice by Meyer.
If you really want to see positive results by the loosies - bring in Botha at 8 and Labuschagne at 7 and add Brussow to the mix. Forget about the under-achievers who have been disappointing over the past year especially.
12 Jun 2013, 23:27#10
I don't care about what has happened in 2009. The interpretation of the laws has changed in 2010. Just to make sure of my gut feeling, I checked the stats before I made the comment. Are you ready for the surprise?
He has managed 4 turnovers in the game against the game against the Waratahs. As far the rest? Zip............. zero................. niks................... fokol.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jun 2013, 23:31#11
Roinek
Ceradyne looks at limited impact only - namely turnovers in possession - not legitimate slowing down of opposition recovery of balls. He also loose sight of the combination impact I referred to previously.
Looking at the stats for Super 15 - the combination of Brussow, Van der Walt and Labuschagne made 25 turnovers of opposition balls - giving away 11 penalties in the process. All the Bulls combination at loosie made 18 turnovers giving away 25 penalties in the process. The Bulls combination used includes Spies, Stegmann, Potgieter and Botha.
In essence the 25 turnovers in fact represents 12 games played - in other words 2 turnovers per game - which is better than any other SA franchise could produce.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Jun 2013, 23:36#12
Ceradyne
Tripe - I looked at the foxsport and test rugby stats and in total Brussow made 11 turnovers in possession out of a total of 25 by the Cheetahs loosie combination.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Jun 2013, 00:17#19
Ceradyne
I gave you the sources which I have consulted. You are talking absolute crap about the issue - combination of loosies working together is a fact of life and if that combination is excluded it shows a serious deficiency in intelligent rugby interpretation. Two of the Bulls loosies involved are in the present Springbok team and two were (like Brussow) previous Springboks - so what is wrong in comparing the two set of loosies to see which is the better indication on the turnover issue.
I also look at ESPN stats - but when they differ markedly - like in this case I also look at other stat sources to find a medium type of situation. Both the Foxsport and Test Rugby sites have similarities - differing markedly from the ESPN SCRUM stats and in view of the similarities - I used the latter sources in this case.. .
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Jun 2013, 00:36#22
Saffex
What is Kolisi "handy" in?
Low and rather ineffective tackle count?
Small success in carrying of balls?
Knocking on of balls?
Giving away of penalties?
He has done all the above and there is clear evidence of that in the Super 15 games he played in. Handy yes - but definitely not an international level candidate.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 Jun 2013, 00:48#24
Look DomMike I know you are as thick as pigshit, but Kolisi is that guy currently in the Bok squad. Need I say anymore?
NTntanga
Club Pro336 posts
13 Jun 2013, 01:05#26
Meyer should look no further, Brussow is available, and he is a tested and proven Fetcher SA have at the moment. But Meyer is just too stubborn to admit that fact.
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
13 Jun 2013, 02:34#28
You mention Brussouw's great play againt the Lions RooiAAAS? Just a pity then that you chose the Lions to thrash the Boks...hey? Nobody gets it more wrong.
The fact is Brussouw was a great player and had a great Lions series and 09 TN. But he has never been as effective since. In RWC 11 he was outplayed by Pocock before leaving hurt and also outplayed by Warburton in the Welsh match. He has been hampered by many injuries, and against the more physical packs like the Bools, he struggles these days.
Louw is a fine player and almost single handedly improved our breakdown last year. So while Heinrich still shows glimpses of his former greatness, Louw is the better solution going forward. To suggest a Bok coach is not going to choose a player who he thinks will help him win, because of personal issues, isn't credible.
Kolisi and Coetzee are probably never going to be competitive against top international talent.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Jun 2013, 02:35#29
Saffex
So Meyer has suddenly been elevated to your favoured coach? He has made some really poor selections and Kolisi is one of those. I hope he doe get an opportunity to play on Saturday just to prove that he is not international material - he is bound to fail, just like Janttjies did in the Soweto test.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 Jun 2013, 03:19#31
Saffex
Since you seem to think your selections are always right - what -
* happened to your mantra that Goosen must be the flyhalf, Lambie must be the full back amd Taute must be the no 13; and
* Jantjies is a real candidate for Springbok selection?
Has Le Roux now replaced Lambie in that mantra and JJ Engelbrecht Taute. And I hope Goosen is available soon - he will make that backline operate properly - provided the crashballing Francois Steyn is not in the backline.
Ponder over that one before you answer please.
13 Jun 2013, 11:15#35
I am with Saff and Rooi here, Brussouw is the answer, should have been there from the start. I think there is a personality issue between him and Meyer. Brussouw works very hard, has a high tackle count and even if he does not turn over a ball on the ground, his efforts will often lead to the ball being slowed down, still advantages for his side. As for stats, they only assist with an overall picture, and can not be looked at in isolation.