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Boks name most experienced side ever

Started by ABasquefan44 REPLIES879 VIEWS· 16 Sept 2015, 11:28
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AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
16 Sept 2015, 11:28
#1
16 Sept 2015, 11:28#1
Boks name most experienced side ever

16th Sep 2015, 11:12

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On the bench: Fourie du Preez


Scrum-half Fourie du Preez will play his first Test for South Africa since June 2014 in Saturday's World Cup clash with Japan in Brighton.


The team is the most experienced Springbok side ever.

More to follow...


South Africa: 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 Lwazi Mvovo, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Schalk Burger, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Lood de Jager, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira


Replacements: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Siya Kolisi, 21 Fourie du Preez, 22 Handré Pollard, 23 JP Pietersen,

AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
16 Sept 2015, 11:29
#2
16 Sept 2015, 11:29#2
 Someone is going to be very happy,..... as we say, clapping with his ears

mmmmmmm,.... Lambie's there,..... I don't know
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
16 Sept 2015, 11:32
#3
16 Sept 2015, 11:32#3
 some doubts,....... if Vermeulen is fit (as they said he's), why isn't he given gametime, at least from the bench?
and what has happened with Etzebeth?
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
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bluebokPro3,977 posts
16 Sept 2015, 11:47
#4
16 Sept 2015, 11:47#4
No Space for De Allende? Even on the bench!! They should have put Kriel at 15 and brought De Allende in at centre, that way they could still have Jean on the field. Stupid!
ABsq, you raise some very valid questions on Etzebeth and Vermeulen. One can understand Etzebeth sitting out, because he has an injury, but has been involved enough in the Boks setup recently to slot right in, but Vermeulen needs game time, and the fact that he is not getting it indicates that he is still injured. Not Good! 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Sept 2015, 11:51
#5
16 Sept 2015, 11:51#5
 bluebok
This is Meyer's idea of the team and I hope they are not in for a rude awakening.  I would have done the team differently - but Meyer is obsessed with reputation - nothing to do with performance.    
AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
16 Sept 2015, 12:03
#6
16 Sept 2015, 12:03#6
   I didn't know Etzebeth was injured,...... I supose it's a minor injury,...... otherwise he wouldn't be in the squad

De Allende's absence is quite significant,...... not even on the bench when he can cover both centers and wing,...... and JP Petersen before de Allende??????????? de Allende smokes him hopping on one leg
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Sept 2015, 12:11
#7
16 Sept 2015, 12:11#7
I'm surprised useless Meyer is not starting Morne at 10!!  
TT
The_Truth
Club Pro471 posts
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The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
16 Sept 2015, 12:12
#8
16 Sept 2015, 12:12#8
 83% vs 45%
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
JE
JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
16 Sept 2015, 12:44
#9
16 Sept 2015, 12:44#9
 Useless team. A real laughing stock.
BL
Blikkies
Pro1,526 posts
BL
BlikkiesPro1,526 posts
16 Sept 2015, 13:18
#10
16 Sept 2015, 13:18#10

Front row is OKish.

Loosies with Louw, Alberts and Burger ... oops, but let see how it goes.

Hopeful for a successful return by Fourie du Preez, but I will not bet on it.

And then Inzane Up-and-under Kirchner ... oh well, Meyer had to maintain the quota requirement. Lets hope he can spring a surprise.


  

CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Sept 2015, 14:13
#11
16 Sept 2015, 14:13#11
Blikkies, in all honesty, I have become a bit  concerned about Le Roux for some time now. We are forever punting his individual brilliance but we seem to ignore the large number of times that he has his fair share of balls-ups. Both on attack and on defence. How often does he not go for those little chip kicks that lead to nothing more than handing the ball back to the opposition, only to leave as defending like mad? He also does not seem to be as fearless under the high ball as he used to be when he first burst onto the scene.
I have another concern, which many may deem as a very fortunate position to be in. We have too many Jacks of all trades and too few masters of none. There are too many players who are 50/50 in two or more positions and too few who are, let's say, 80-90 in one position and 30-40 in another. A few examples - and I know that there are a few of my favourite friends who will start reaching for the toilet roll again:
Lambie - There are reason for some to say that he is as good a fullback as he is a flyhalf but is he really that great at one or the other? I think not. I do not think that many international sides would fall over their feet to accommodate him above their current no 10 or 15.
Kriel - Same as Lambie but for two different positions. I personally think that we should forget about fullback for him and have him specialise at 13 and work on his defence for the future. Reality, though, is that he will probably remain a fullback/outside centre, unless the Bulls buy into the outside centre idea. If not, he would always arrive at the Bok camp as a 13, having played the entire preceding Super Rugby season at 15.
Pollard - I have had my doubts about Pollard for some time but that aside, he is as handy at 10 as at 12. Although everybody and his grandmother - both in SA and internationally - thinks that he is the Messiah at flyhalf, he still has many flaws IMO. His decision making is suspect. He often does silly things at silly times. Many of them very (too) opportunistic. 
De Allende. Need I say more? Is he a 12 or is he a 13..... or even a 14? He needs to specialise as well and his home franchise and union should buy into it. 
Coenie. My main concern. Is he really that good (good enough?) at TH? I don't think so. If we need a TH/LH, we have Nyakane. Coenie is a LH, IMO.
Loodvoet. If he is the future no 5, we would need someone else to call the shots in the line-outs, kick-offs. The first reaction would probably be: "No, PSDT is the future 5". I don't know. I may take a lot of flack for saying this, but I think his place is at no 7. Loodvoet needs some good mentoring and the decision making should be left to Etzebeth. He has done it and I cannot see why he cannot keep on doing it?
Just a few of my opinions, and for those who  don't like them - I have more. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Sept 2015, 14:21
#12
16 Sept 2015, 14:21#12
 And we have a lock who wants to be a center and moonlights in the backline, while not doing his work as a lock. And we have a player slower than our props playing as a loosie.  
Are those not concerns as well?  
 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Sept 2015, 14:28
#13
16 Sept 2015, 14:28#13

So HM's WC final team has F du Preez in for Pienaar. Etzebeth in for Lomp. Vermeulen in for Schalk...who becomes a 30 minute closer. It's all pretty clear.

 

 

Kirchner is one lucky fellow.

 

 

And Lambie will crack under the pressure, but there's always Morne for the big games. I'm afraid this pretty much means Pollard is toast. 

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Sept 2015, 14:38
#14
16 Sept 2015, 14:38#14
 And Mozart is happy the average age of the starting line-up is over 30 years of age.   They better win well or the signs are up - like in 2011 - the way home is early and a disgrace.  In 2011 they battled against Wales and Samoa and then was disgraced in the quarter-final.  Too many of the same faces as was there in 2011 is in Meyer's team - so can we expect any better?????  I fear not.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Sept 2015, 14:45
#15
16 Sept 2015, 14:45#15
That WC side will exit the WC at the QF stage......because it is a crap side  
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Sept 2015, 14:57
#16
16 Sept 2015, 14:57#16
Ah the barking dogs....doom and gloom.......wishing, no praying for destruction. It must be depressing to be a barking dog.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
16 Sept 2015, 15:06
#17
16 Sept 2015, 15:06#17

It is depressing having to back such a pathetic side.....one that contains more players that should not have smelt the squad than those that are actually there on merit.



CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Sept 2015, 15:13
#18
16 Sept 2015, 15:13#18
clevermike
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 19200RE: Boks name most experienced side ever
September 16, 2015, 14:21:26

 And we have a lock who wants to be a center and moonlights in the backline, while not doing his work as a lock. And we have a player slower than our props playing as a loosie.  


Are those not concerns as well?  

Would have been if it was true. 
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Sept 2015, 15:23
#19
16 Sept 2015, 15:23#19
 Ceradunce
Have you never watched a rugby fame involving those two for the past two years?  You must never wants to see the obvious when those two played.   What I asked is very, very true - even iff you so not want to see what really happens.  
I agree with Dave - that side is going to struggle against Japan - because of too many passengers that has not performed for years.    Jones knows perfectly well what he can expect from the geriatrics in that team - they failed in 2011 - what will make it any different this WC?   Any win by a smaller margin will spell disaster for the rest of the teams they have to play.  
Remember what happened in 2011 - in the pool stage the same old crowd struggled in the pool stages and was disgraced in the quarterfinal.   A struggle against Japan is going to kill this team early - and with a struggle I mean a win by 12 points or less. 
       
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Sept 2015, 15:31
#20
16 Sept 2015, 15:31#20
 I have watched the games, ou Tokkie. That is why I am so confident that you are talking k@k.
PA
Pakie
Captain17,321 posts
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
16 Sept 2015, 15:50
#21
16 Sept 2015, 15:50#21
They can win by 1 point for all I care. This is the World Cup, not a muscle-flexing competition. Mission is to win the cup. 1 Point will do it every time.
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
16 Sept 2015, 17:38
#22
16 Sept 2015, 17:38#22
 Bok players reviewing Meyer's game plan
That's just the bench, surely the starters are younger
But seriously, I am surprised Vermulen wasn't selected. He must not be ready yet. There is still time but the clock is ticking.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Sept 2015, 17:53
#23
16 Sept 2015, 17:53#23
 Sure JW 
I agree with your pic above.
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Sept 2015, 17:55
#24
16 Sept 2015, 17:55#24
 Ceradunce
You are the one talking kak.  You have refused to see what is really going on - but you are too rugby ignorant to find the real situation playing out before your eyes.  
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Sept 2015, 18:04
#25
16 Sept 2015, 18:04#25
Isn't it interesting that the average ages of the SA and the NZ squads are exactly the same at 28.2 years. 
The NZ squad is also the most experienced squad in the competition and SA second. NZ average is 48 caps per player while the average for SA is 42. Aus is third with 41 caps per player. The least experienced are Samoa and Tonga, both at 16 caps per player. 
Coincidently both the Tonga and Samoa squads are "older" than that of SA and NZ. The average age of the Samoa squad is 29 while the Tonga squad is the eldest at 29.4 years. 
Now doesn't that stuff up a few theories about age and experience? 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11868804/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-How-do-the-teams-breakdown-for-height-weight-average-age-and-caps.html
CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
16 Sept 2015, 18:20
#26
16 Sept 2015, 18:20#26
 Stooge
I am not interested in age of players - but in performance.   Most of the older players have not performed on international level for up to a year and that is where I believe the line should be drawn.  Fat Fransie is only 27 years old and he was so pathetic in performance Meyer could not bring him to include him in the squad.  Pietersen is 29 years old and for the last two years he was pathetic in games.    Age is not an issue - performance is.
There is no other coach that has selected so many "hospital ward" cases that were injured and has had minimal or no rugby this year and some has not had a decent game of rugby for 15 months.   Can you or anybody else forecast of how they are going to perform - especially since most of them did not cover themselves in glory when they last played.       


CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
16 Sept 2015, 18:48
#27
16 Sept 2015, 18:48#27
 Trust ou Sopdoos to stuff up some interesting facts with stuffed up opinions. 
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
16 Sept 2015, 19:08
#28
16 Sept 2015, 19:08#28
 For sure coaches are going for players with experience, those that have shown they can handle pressure - the current theory being that inexperienced players will crumble in pressure situations. It makes sense but like any approach it has risks. A young team with X-factor players can have a game of their dreams  & blow old farts away. Chances are this won't happen & if the average figures for age of the teams tells the real story there are no team with really young players. Although England 26.2 is one of the youngest.
Also, coaches like Hansen and Meyer are selecting include players with x-factor (young and not so young).  Milner-Scudder, Nahalo, Fekitoa are the young with high x-factor & then you have fantastic players like Nonu, B. Smith with great ability. 
Meyer has selected Kriel, wee willy.
Then there is the question of the packs, ABs have forwards with very good rugby skills (set piece and open play). I am glad they included Famuina (who is very big mobile and explosive & will be excellent off the bench) & players like Victor Vito.
Will the ABs be able to handle big but less mobile packs? We don't have any players listed in the "heaviest" player list provided by Ceradyne but the overall weight of the pack in not bad. The difference compared to other teams is negligible. Another myth exploded.
Anyway, my main point is coaches have to decide on what balance they want, i.e. younger players with x-factor or lean towards older players with experience but with still have enough left to get the job done?  With the packs do you lean (no pun intended) to heavier less mobile player or lighter more mobile skilled players. To me the ABs have the balance right but only time will tell with age and on the weight issue for forwards we have weight and skill.
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
16 Sept 2015, 20:39
#29
16 Sept 2015, 20:39#29
 
Oh well ... it's pointless getting upset with this team ... we all saw the squad and should by rights have expected something like this.

What else could he have done with the squad he decided upon?

A third were selected while still in the ICU and several haven't seen game time this season.

I thought he was afraid of taking risks.

Turns out to be quite the daredevil.






 


BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
16 Sept 2015, 21:33
#30
16 Sept 2015, 21:33#30
We can only hope
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Sept 2015, 03:05
#31
17 Sept 2015, 03:05#31
 
mozart
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 13293RE: Kirchner and Olivier showed
March 04, 2012, 23:34:40

Nonsense Kirchner has been a flop in TN tests. He can't kick and tackle at the standard expected of a Bok fullback. The fact is both Olivier and Kirchner have been given many Bok chances.....they weren't absent in the RWC because they succeeded. Guys who start out as failures.....stay failures.


Edit post
  •  0 Likes

To which Dave said:
"As for Kirchner, the same applies - the lad is a quality runner and has not failed at test level at all, much like Flip, Spies, Watson and the likes never failed at test level"


Fact is Dave and HasBeen were huge Kirchner supporters. Now all of a sudden no memory of that exists...stick with Moz for the real scoop.
MO
MonsterBok
Club Pro442 posts
MO
MonsterBokClub Pro442 posts
17 Sept 2015, 04:17
#32
17 Sept 2015, 04:17#32
Jesus man!!there are 31 in the squad and HM can only select a match day squad of 23. I don't like Meyer as much as the next bloke but F*ck me get a grip. If we cant beat Japan with whatever combinations then we're really toast. He cant putRudy, Pienaar and Fourie in the 23 or Matfield, Louw, PSDT,Alberts, Eben and Burger in the 23  and the list goes on.
I say put your green and gold on or FUCK OFF!!!  
CL
CleanCut
Pro9,905 posts
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
17 Sept 2015, 08:24
#33
17 Sept 2015, 08:24#33
 
We should be too strong for Japan ... even the EP Kings would push them, if not beat them.

Still ... Goooooooooooo Japannnnnnnnnnn!!!

Gooooo Fijiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
17 Sept 2015, 08:56
#34
17 Sept 2015, 08:56#34
MonsterBok, I share your sentiments. They are still the Boks and I will support them 100%. I may not like the team make up or the squad, but I still want them to win. 
Go Bokke!!!
HO
Ho3n3r
Rookie49 posts
HO
Ho3n3rRookie49 posts
17 Sept 2015, 09:45
#35
17 Sept 2015, 09:45#35
It's close to the best side we can pick.
De Villiers is picked because Meyer needs to see whether he can use him as a captain for the world cup. I guess some people here would rather have him try that against Samoa or Scotland rather, and good for you, but Meyer isn't that stupid. This is the perfect game.
Vermeulen hasn't been out all year, so he can miss this one game if he's still 50/50. He'll be raring to go in the next game. De Villiers, on the other hand, needs gametime badly, even if only to assess whether he's still worth something.
Move Kriel to fullback, while he's been shining for the Boks at 13? Ridiculous. De Allende will get plenty of gametime. If he was versatile, he would've been on the bench. He's not fast enough to be wing backup, as some seem to believe.
Matfield is our best 5 lock we have in the country, whether or not people like it. And he'll make sure we get all our ball as well as some of the opposition's. This seems to be undervalued. And he makes a lot of tackles in his favored midfield position.
Kirchner can tackle, Le Roux just can't. Simple as. I know who I'd rather have. I'd even have preferred Lambie over Le Roux at 15 - but he's our in-form flyhalf, so it makes more sense to start him at 10.
Don't blame Meyer for the lack of talent we have, he's tried various options over the last 4 years and most frankly didn't cut it. This is basically what we're stuck with, no team selections would have suddenly made us better than the All Blacks.
We will reach the semi-final most likely, but I don't see us beating the All Blacks, unfortunately.
Would be good if people could rather support the Boks than sound like they are opposed to Heyneke Meyer doing well. He was selected as our coach on merit, unlike his predecessor, and nobody who was available was any better an option.
He can also only select so many players - you will always have unhappy individuals no matter who he picks. But since he's the coach, it's his prerogative to pick whoever he thinks suits his needs. I'd rather trust his opinion than some couch critics.
Hopefully some sanity prevails, if not, have at it.
CE
Ceradyne
Pro9,374 posts
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CeradynePro9,374 posts
17 Sept 2015, 09:53
#36
17 Sept 2015, 09:53#36
 "Don't blame Meyer for the lack of talent we have, he's tried various options over the last 4 years and most frankly didn't cut it."
How many times do some fools have to be told that? FFS, statistically we should not even have had one side in the S15 play-offs, let alone winning the damn competition, yet we want to concur the world? 
HO
Ho3n3r
Rookie49 posts
HO
Ho3n3rRookie49 posts
17 Sept 2015, 10:02
#37
17 Sept 2015, 10:02#37
"How many times do some fools have to be told that? FFS, statistically we should not even have had one side in the S15 play-offs, let alone winning the damn competition, yet we want to concur the world?"
Agreed. Collectively, we can, but through sheer willpower and guts alone. On talent we're probably 15 points behind the All Blacks.
But this was the case in 1995, so I'm not discounting our chickens just yet.
In the last 24 years, we have had 2 teams that have been clearly better than anybody else in the world - 1998, and 2009, and 2004 we were possibly equal best. The rest of the time we have been playing catch-up.
I'm also just happy that the world cup is here - so many games to look forward to, so little time. 
MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Sept 2015, 16:25
#38
17 Sept 2015, 16:25#38
Welcome back Ho. And well said. HM has tried every combination, every flavor of the day. And when the newbies fell apart disastrously against the Bargies. ...he called no mas. He has gone back to a formula which has worked as in the 2013 YE tour. Gone back to players who have proven they can function at test level...in his view.
We simply don't have the wealth of players the barking dogs assume. We have a narrow shot at this WC. We can beat NZ in a one on one knockout game, with a bit of luck. 
Go Bokke.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
17 Sept 2015, 16:36
#39
17 Sept 2015, 16:36#39

What a load of utter crap, Meyer has tried Willie, de Allende, Kriel, Serfontein, Pollard, Lambie, Reinach, Marcel, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Lood and Coetzee who have all proved to be far better than the utterly useless old men in the side.


Hell look no further than the impact de Allende and Kriel made this year compared to useless Jean


Not to mention Pollard over useless Morne


But to top it was Lood over the utterly useless Matfield


How can anyone be stupid enough to conclude that the utterly useless Meyer and his geriatric squad are anything but on the right track after winning only 5 from the last 13 against major sides and slipping to 5th in the rankings in the process.


How profoundly stupid are you lot - geez wake the fuck up man

TT
The_Truth
Club Pro471 posts
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
17 Sept 2015, 22:29
#40
17 Sept 2015, 22:29#40

"Hell look no further than the impact de Allende and Kriel made this year compared to useless Jean


Not to mention Pollard over useless Morne


But to top it was Lood over the utterly useless Matfield"

 
83% vs 45%
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