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Boks Name starting Team vs France - 1st test

Started by sharkbok28 REPLIES1,385 VIEWS· 08 Jun 2017, 14:07
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,259 posts
08 Jun 2017, 14:07
#1
08 Jun 2017, 14:07#1
Four debutants in Springbok starting XVuncapped quartet of Andries Coetzee, Raymond Rhule, Courtnall Skosan and Ross Cronje in h is starting team for Saturday’s first Test in the incoming series against France at Loftus Versfeld in Pretoria, while a fifth uncapped player, Dillyn Leyds, is on the bench. No 8 Warren Whiteley will become the 58th Springbok captain when he leads the Boks onto the field on Saturday and Cronje will become South Africa’s 50th Test scrumhalf on Saturday. Also in the match-day squad is the experienced and versatile Frans Steyn, the 2007 Rugby World Cup winning centre, who is back in the Springbok squad for what will be his first Test for South Africa since September 2012, when he played against the All Blacks in Dunedin. He last played a match for the Boks in 2014, against the World XV in Cape Town. The new-look Springbok match-23 has only seven survivors from the team that played against Wales at the end of last November – four of those players are starting on Saturday, namely Whiteley, Elton Jantjies, Franco Mostert and Tendai Mtawarira, while Pieter-Steph du Toit, Bongi Mbonambi and Steven Kitshoff also played in Cardiff. Coetzee has opted for combinations in key positions, with Jantjies playing alongside his Emirates Lions team-mate Cronje, the Vodacom Bulls’ Jan Serfontein and Jesse Kriel in the midfield and the Johannesburg-duo of Andries Coetzee and Skosan in the back trio, where they will be joined by Rhule, who will earn his first start although he was previously a member of the Springbok touring squad. “We have gone for settled combinations and selected players for the starting fifteen who have trained well with us,” explained Allister Coetzee.  “They are in good form so far this season and they will be battle-ready. It is a great opportunity for our uncapped players to cement their places in the team.” Coetzee also pointed to this week’s good preparations in Pretoria, despite the injury setbacks which ruled out the trio of Duane Vermeulen, Damian De Allende and Lionel Mapoe, who is in his final phase of rehabilitation. “Duane is a world-class player and it’s a real pity he is out injured. However, I believe he needs rest after a long and very hard season in Europe. He has a few niggles and I am sure the time off will do him the world of good,” said Coetzee. “I am excited about our loose trio combination. Siya Kolisi has played at openside for the Springboks and the DHL Stormers and I know he will be able to do the job for us. Oupa Mohoje has good ball carrying abilities, he is an excellent lineout option and I think the combination will complement each other. On the bench we have a young and exciting player in Jean-Luc du Preez whom I sure will make a big impact.” Coetzee predicts a massive forward battle: “The set-piece will always be very important against any European side. However, our set piece was one of the positives in 2016 and I believe we will build on that. We prepared well and are looking forward to Saturday.” Mtawarira will extend his record as the most-capped Springbok prop to 87 appearances. He is the third-most experienced Springbok forward with only Victor Matfield and John Smit having played more Test matches for the Boks. It will be his 25th successive Test for the Boks, which equals the record held by Ollie le Roux between 1998 and 1999. Apart from Vermeulen (shoulder injury), De Allende (quad contusion) and Mapoe, several other candidates such as Pat Lambie, Handré Pollard, Francois Louw, Roelof Smit, Marcell Coetzee and Rohan Janse van Rensburg were all not considered due to various injuries.  The total number of Test caps for the Springbok starting line-up is 265. There are 54 caps in the backline and 211 amongst the forwards, while the total on the bench is 151 caps.Teams:
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2017, 14:36
#2
08 Jun 2017, 14:36#2
 The match as far as I could make out is as follows:-
15  Andries Coetzee, 14  Courtnall Skosan, 13  Jesse Kriel, 12  Jan Serfontein, 11  Raymond Rhule, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9  Ross Cronje, 9 Warren Whiteley, 7  Oupa Mohoje, 6 Siya Kolisi, 5  Franco Mostert, 4  Eben Etzebeth, 3  Frans Malherbe, 2  Malcolm Marx, 1  Te ndai Mtawarira
16  Bongi Mbonambi, 17  Stephen Kitshoff, 18  Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20  Jean-Luc du Preez, 21  Francois Hougaard,  22  Francois Steyn, 23  Dylin Leyds
This team could never beat the French.  I have reservations about too many players -  but at least Fat Fransie is not in the starting ;ine-up - that would have been worse.  The centers ns loosies are very very questionable.   -,
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,259 posts
08 Jun 2017, 14:47
#3
08 Jun 2017, 14:47#3
Quopa Mohoje is a total liability. He makes little to no contribution at the ruck and lacks the physicality to carry the ball up. One or two line-out jumps, varied by some head but tackles and he is done.
The loss of Duane Vermeulen at the rucks will be noticed. Jean-Luc would, of course, be a much better option than Quopa.
Kolisi has had a good season this year- so he is not the worst of choices. However, it would have preferred a specialist fetcher. Although Kolisi has contributed at the rucks this season, unlike in previous seasons
The backline is basically a brand new backline with minimal known combinations- other than the now disbanded Kriel/Serfontein axis- that went even further South than JJ "What's his name" Engelbrecght a few seasons ago. 
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
08 Jun 2017, 15:09
#4
08 Jun 2017, 15:09#4
 I missed the announcement.
Is Jaco Kriel still injured?

Also, all this fuss was made about frans steyn by Coetzee, yet he finds himself on the bench?
A bit confusing
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2017, 15:36
#5
08 Jun 2017, 15:36#5
 Fat Fransie was selected by Coetzee on the advice of Jake  White.   I hope he does not get onto the field - it would be a disaster.
Picamoles will have a field day with that loosie combination.   I am afraid that is where the Springboks will lose the match.   Whiteley is the  only reasonable loosie in that lot - Mohoje is no good and Kolisi did well on Super Rugby level - but has serious deficiencies especially insofar as ball protection and recovery is concerned,    

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
08 Jun 2017, 15:46
#6
08 Jun 2017, 15:46#6
 
It's a very poor selection of players ... but that was always going to be the case.

Two useless starting props with an awful hooker on the bench as cover and a sub standard loosehead covering the tighthead ... the best lock in the country can only make the bench ... two quotas at flank both blindside flanks ... no fetcher ... Kriel doesn't even make the match 23 ... a useless 10 who cracks easily under pressure ... a very poor midfield, especially Kriel at 13 who's tackle technique is head hunting ... a completely new back three in Skosan, Rhule and Coetzee ... with not a single test match amongst them

To make things worse ... our bench is even weaker than the starti ng 15.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaa!!!

I love it.






PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
08 Jun 2017, 16:45
#7
08 Jun 2017, 16:45#7
 Lol x 1000
So if you were appraising Coetzee right now and the subject of what he has built since last year came up, what do you think his answer would be?
My guess is that he'd blame a) his late appointment and b) his support staff for having built literally fck all in 2016. Are those valid excuses? 
A) Late appointment should make zero difference in the them you select. Any top tier coach with his finger on the pulse should be able to pick a national team at any given moment, whether he he the job or not.
B) Support staff don't pick teams. If your knowledge is so deficient that your support staff cause you to get it so badly wrong, then you suck big donkey nuts.
So, because we live in a racist politico buddy buddy banana republic, the ANC boetjie kept his job. Our politics is a farce, no reason our sport shouldn't be.
CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
08 Jun 2017, 16:57
#8
08 Jun 2017, 16:57#8
@clevermike
 "Fat Fransie was selected by Coetzee on the advice of Jake  White"

Fact or opinion?
If fact, where can i read up on it?
If opinion, LOLOLOL
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
08 Jun 2017, 17:05
#9
08 Jun 2017, 17:05#9
Good old Coetzee starts where he left off - as fucking clueless as ever......evidenced in Cronje now winning a test cap............my 19 year old son who plays 10 but is a pretty handy 9 is a better 9 than Cronje and I am not kidding 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2017, 17:28
#10
08 Jun 2017, 17:28#10
 Chippo
Itt was in the newspaper that White advised Coetww to pick Fat Fransie,   He is absolutely useless - so why was he picked otherwise.  
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,259 posts
08 Jun 2017, 18:53
#11
08 Jun 2017, 18:53#11
@CM
ex Sport24
Jake: No-one asked me for advice on France2017-06-06 14:30 SHARE THIS  Cape Town - Former national team coach Jake White has questioned the Springboks' preparation ahead of their three-Test home series against France.
White, who coached the Springboks to the World Cup title in 2007 and recently completed a three-year coaching stint at French club Montpellier, shared his views via a column for the All Out Rugby website.
In the column, White says it’s a myth that the French are unpredictable.
“There’s no such thing as unpredictable with today’s analysis systems. You can identify and examine weaknesses in every team and player, so how can they be unpredictable? They’re only unpredictable if you haven’t done your homework on them,” White wrote.
White said he knows which players France will pick for the first Test and expects them to be more potent in the second encounter when they will call on players that participated in last Sunday’s Top 14 final between Clermont and Toulon.
“Why do we say we don’t know what to expect? The only reason is because we haven’t asked anybody,” White continued. “That’s what top sides do. Australia played France in France last year, and they used every resource they could to find out what they could about the French, including convening with several of the Australian coaches in France for a three-day workshop to get insight.
“I know that Canal+, France’s equivalent of SuperSport, have spent the past six weeks trying to find out which France-based SA players were going to be chosen for the Boks. The French clubs will also have reported which SA players have been requested, all of which helps the national coach, Guy Noves, get an understanding about the makeup of the Springbok team. And yet, in South Africa, we don’t do the same.”
According to White, South Africa could call on the services of several experts familiar with the French game.
“We’ve got Pieter de Villiers who played 68 Tests for France, Nick Mallett who coached Stade Francais for three seasons, and I’ve just come back from coaching Montpellier in the Top 14. Absolutely no-one has asked me any questions about the French and I’m pretty sure Pieter and Nick haven’t been contacted either.
“If that’s the case, then the Springboks probably won’t know all the French players’ names and they should expect France to be unpredictable. And if you’re only relying on Duane Vermeulen and Frans Steyn for your feedback, then you haven’t used all your resources.”
White’s next venture will be in Japan where he will coach Japanese Top League side Toyota Verblitz next season.
South Africa's first Test against France is scheduled for Loftus Versfeld in Pretoria on Saturday (June 10), the second for Kings Park in Durban (June 17) and final one for Ellis Park in Johannesburg (June 24).
CLICK HERE to read Jake White's full column on All Out Rugby

Read more on:    springboks  |  jake white  |  rugby
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2017, 20:29
#12
08 Jun 2017, 20:29#12
 White is still besotted of Fat Fransie and he still cannot see the player is useless as a center as well as a flyhalf. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jun 2017, 20:29
#13
08 Jun 2017, 20:29#13
 White is still besotted of Fat Fransie and he still cannot see the player is useless as a center as well as a flyhalf. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
08 Jun 2017, 20:38
#14
08 Jun 2017, 20:38#14
 Poor side...some dark and light quotas.  We need someone to build a team from scratch...rock bottom.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
08 Jun 2017, 22:11
#15
08 Jun 2017, 22:11#15
Game is in Pretoria - elevation will matter.
7 Lions in the starting team which should help the cohesiveness and is probably an indication of the type of game Coetzee will want to play. Too bad about RJVR who would definitely have made it 8, and if Kriel was healthy maybe 9?
From all accounts the French are very unsettled with players arriving late, some involved in club playoffs etc.
If Jantjies has even half a decent game I think Boks will take it if the wings don't get exposed too much on defense. Kriel/Stepfontein combo is a question mark, but at least they both have international experience and will be playing at home.


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
09 Jun 2017, 08:12
#16
09 Jun 2017, 08:12#16
 
The usual rubbish from Matey!!

Exactly how does international experience help the team? Kriel is useless no matter where he plays ... no matter who he plays for. He should not be in the mix.

It's not a matter of how many Lions are in the team but rather which Lions are selected.

Mostert should not have started ahead of Pieter Steff Du Toit.

Skosan should not have been selected over Combrinck.

Jantjies should not have been given his umpteenth shot, having failed in every other test he was selected in. 

The wrong Lions have been selected. Jaco Kriel should have started at 6 ... Harold Vorster should have started at 12 and Ruan Combrinck should have been included at 14. Just those three players would have strengthen the team significantly.

Two of them aren't even in the squad and the other can't even make the match 23.

Try to wake up, Matey.



BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
09 Jun 2017, 08:58
#17
09 Jun 2017, 08:58#17
The French are just as disorganized as us, so I predict a poor and messy game decided by a moment or two of brilliance from individuals. Watch, we're going to win this test. We have enough attacking firepower and unpredictability to score individual tries out of nothing. I am not saying our backline is anything special, but they will try unexpected things which may well work against the French. Which, I must add, is exactly what I don't want. I want us to lose so that we can sack our useless coach and still have enough time for someone new to take over and prepare for the next world cup.    
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jun 2017, 11:02
#18
09 Jun 2017, 11:02#18
 Quota coach and quota players and poor selections.  France will have to be weak to lose to this lot.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jun 2017, 13:52
#19
09 Jun 2017, 13:52#19

The team sells us short in a big way.


I'm happy to see Andries Coetzee get a shot at 15, he deserves it, but is he a better option than Willie - I doubt it as Willie is the one Bok who can create something from nothing.


Rhule and Skosan have been good this season, but are they the best two wings in the country? No, Rhule is certainly not up there.......v/Wyk, Ulengo, Nkosi and Combrink are all better options. Rhule and Skosan lack physicality. Skosan deserves a shot but then we should have had a more physical wing to bring in something different.


With de Allende, Am and Janse v/Rensburg injured, I'm happy to see Serfontein and Kriel as our centre pair as both are class acts and been in good form in a poor performing Bulls side. However, saying that, Vorster deserved a shot, at least from the bench......useless Coetzee missed a trick here. Have been really impressed with this kid, physical and a good rugby brain. Runs great lines and looks for the offload. Lleyds on the bench is a complete waste.


Jantjies regardless of who was fit is the obvious choice at 10, those that don't see how he sparks the Lions in general just don't know their rugby. Unfortunately Coetzee has no faith in Jantjies and therefore will never prosper under his conservatism.


Cronje at 9 is one of the worst selections I have ever seen. The guy should not be playing CC rugby. Devoid of any talent, brings absolutely nothing to the party, is slow, robotic and about as creative as a dead fish. His selection ahead of Hougaard, Faf, Reinach, Groom, v/Zyl and Schrauder is insulting. He will be sorely exposed at test level - huge liability.


Time to move on from Beast for goodness sake, solid at best - Kitshoff, Nyakane, Thomas du Toit, Kebble and Nqoboko are all better options.


Marx was the obvious choice at 2, but Mbonambi is not close to being our next best


Am a fan of Malherbe, but Wilco Louw has had more game time than him at the Stormers and looks the real deal. Would have been my choice to start at 3.


Etzebeth walks it at 4, always will.


Mostert is a good player at Super level but will never be physical enough as a lock at test level. I would only consider him at 7. Is industrious and puts his body on the line and an integral part of the Lions success. Lood, PSDT, Snyman, Jenkins, Willemse and Ruan Botha are all better lock options.


Kolisi has been very good this season, am a big fan but Jaco Kriel is our best 6 and should be starting


Oupa is a nice Super rugby player but just does not cut it at test level for he lacks the physical edge. Coetzee has failed dismally here for Oupa was exposed last year and useless Coetzee has failed to acknowledge this.


JL du Preez has been our form 7 along with Ackerman of the Lions. Jacques du Plessis, Kirsten and Dan du Preez are all better options as well.


Whiteley like Oupa is a nice Super rugby player but simply not physical enough to impose himself at test level......he is no Picamole, CJ, Billy or Read.


In the absence of Marcel Coetzee, I would play JL du Preez at 8 with a bruiser at 7


So if I was selecting my Bok side, only Kriel, Jantjies, Marx and Etzebeth would definitely have started, with a possibility of Serfontein, Skosan and Mostert (7) as well.


Coetzee sells us more than 50% short........Malherbe, Kitshoff, PSDT, JL du Preez and Hougaard in the mix are worthy


So we have a 50% team with a coach who cant direct and given last seasons results must command zero respect from the players


 

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Jun 2017, 14:29
#20
09 Jun 2017, 14:29#20
Saffex, willie also can create nothing from something, lol neve been a big fan.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
09 Jun 2017, 15:25
#21
09 Jun 2017, 15:25#21
CC,
I was not endorsing the specific selections - agree PSDT over Mostert at 5, never been a fan of Jantjies although have always hoped he would step up as there was potential there but after almost 100 Super rugby games we know what we have, Combrinck is better than Skosan but Coetzee does not have the luxury of picking whoever he wants and has to consider the quota. Besides, Combrinck only just came back and Skosan has been one of the top two wings in SA this year in a good side. Jaco Kriel is still hurt from what I know, and not available or he would be in the mix for sure. Vorster would be a good pick.
The point remains that there is a core of Lions players and it will help the cohesiveness - enough that I think the Boks win Saturday against a French team out of sorts, at altitude.
International experience is valuable. The big stage is tough to handle. 
Boks have a real leader in Whiteley. It will make a difference - as will the improved coaching staff as flawed as it is, still better than last year.
French are serial under performers, don't expect them to step up.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
09 Jun 2017, 15:28
#22
09 Jun 2017, 15:28#22
Wardad,
We desperately need the Willie of old. No one else like him in Bok rugby - he brought a spark, energy, creativity and unpredictability -  but his effectiveness waned in the last couple years. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2017, 16:21
#23
09 Jun 2017, 16:21#23
 oimatey
The problem is that opposing teams learned to try and contain Le Roux - easy because the rest of the backline produced zero to worry about,     
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2017, 16:21
#24
09 Jun 2017, 16:21#24
 oimatey
The problem is that opposing teams learned to try and contain Le Roux - easy because the rest of the backline produced zero to worry about,     
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jun 2017, 16:40
#25
09 Jun 2017, 16:40#25

Oimatey saying Jantjies has not made it at test level tells me you are missing the obvious point......who the hell looked good at test level under Coetzee?


Its just such an obvious picture - I'm surprised you missed it


Had a merit coach like Ackerman for instance been our national coach......the likes of Combrink, Kriel, de Allende, Jantjies, Faf, Jaco Kriel etc would be far better placed as test players than they are now and that is a fact.


Team culture and direction plays such an important role - evidenced by the Lions, who's players are no better than those of the Sharks, Stormers or Bulls but seem to be on another level at Super rugby by virtue of the winning culture they play under.


We see the same with the Kiwi sides - players play with the freedom to express themselves and the confidence that they can win every game they play.   

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jun 2017, 17:46
#26
09 Jun 2017, 17:46#26
 The French side is as follows:-

15  Brice Dulin; 14  Yoann Huget‚ 13  Henry Chavancy‚ 12  Gael Fickou‚ 11  Virimi Vakatawa; 10   Jules Plisson‚ 9   Maxime Machenaud; 8  Louis Picamoles‚ 7  Kevin Gourdon‚ 6  Yacouba Camara; 5  Yoann Maestri (c)‚ 4  Julien Le Devedec; 3  Uini Atonio‚ 2  Clement Maynadier‚ 1  Jefferson Poirot


Replacements  :   16  Camille Chat‚ 17  Eddy Ben Arous‚ 18  Mohamed Boughanmi‚ 19   Bernard le Roux; 20  Kevin  Gourden,  21  Baptiste Serin‚ 22  Jean Marc Doussain‚ 23    Vincent Rattez
Louis Picamoles alone will beat the three loosies of the Springboks
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Jun 2017, 18:34
#27
09 Jun 2017, 18:34#27
 Same as least year. 
He picks Jantjies but gives him a 12 that he has never played with. Then puts a 13 next to that 12 who play in the same SR team but never in that combination. Expect a chaotic and thwarted backline tomorrow. Voster should have played 12 and Serfontein 13, with Skosan and Combrink. 
Why not have Combrink on the other wing? Is Rhule really better? 
He says he picked Oupa because he wants strong lineout options. And Kolisi for some other BS reasons which don't match up with his SR performances. Clearly Du Preez wasn't worth a start. 
Jantjies will no doubt have been asked to pretend he is Morne Steyn tomorrow. Because that worked so well last year.
Love the Boks but I hope they get hammered against the French so that Toetie can fck off into oblivion where he belongs.
Really can't wait to hear his excuses this time. 
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
09 Jun 2017, 18:35
#28
09 Jun 2017, 18:35#28
 PS Mike, are you suggesting that Whitely shouldn't start at 8 for the Boks?
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
10 Jun 2017, 08:03
#29
10 Jun 2017, 08:03#29

Sending a chump abroad to gather some experience doesn't transform him from chumphood to a great.

All that happens in that he returns as an experienced ... chump. In fact some return sporting an even larger chumphood title than what they left with.

How is that going to benefit the Boks??

Jantjies will never be Carter ... no matter how much experience he amasses.

Plum ... Comrade is as ignorant as they come. He lives in a world of make belief ... and seems to be a sour puss there too ... go figure!!

Yes I agree, Dave. Team culture comes from the coach. The players tend to lift their standard of play a tad ... but it still doesn't transform them into superstars.

It's more playing as a unit and for each other that's made the difference at the Lions. Coetzee will never be-able to install that in any team.





— END OF THREAD —

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