Boks need to move on

Meyer has improved the gameplan, he now just needs to select the right players to execute that plan.

At fullback we had Kirchner........he must go. The obvious answers here are Willie moving back to 15 where he has played most of his rugby. Frans Steyn, Lambie and Taute are the other obvious choices. All four of these players need to be involved in the Bok set-up. Outsiders for the fullback spot are Visser, SP Marais and Andries Coetzee.

On the wing JP, Habana and Willie remain the standouts. We need JP back. Its a pity v/d Heever is leaving as he is a quality youngster who struggles with investment from coaches......but Meyer should keep an eye on him. I like Rhule with ball in hand but he needs to sort out his defence. Its pointless investing in Mvovo now, he will be 28 next year and has always been marginal. Paul Jordaan could be a real option on the wing as centre was a physical stretch too far. Volmink looks useful and the two little guys in Sergel Peterson and Kolbe are exciting but maybe too small for the big league. Mapoe has had his moments. Basson is a no, no. I'd look at de Jongh on the wing as well, he is too small for 13. What the hell has happened to Sithole and Mjekevu, how did we let these youngsters slip? Baby Bok wings Sinatla and Obi looked very good.

At centre, JJ and Jean are the incumbents. JJ has cemented his spot and by far our best 13. I questioned Jean age and still have reservations about his age by the time we get to the WC. But Jean proved me wrong on the field and remains an option. Serfontein is the star of the future, who needs to be given more game time at 12. Against the weaker sides he should be given a whole half at 12 if Meyer insists on retaining Jean. A fit Frans Steyn is a real option at 12......its his best position, but given Jean and Serfontein, 15 is probably the better bet for Frans. Same can be said of Taute as a 13, I like Taute at 13, but he is no match for JJ, so his best bet is 15 as well. However he can always be used as a back-up at 13. Jean, JJ, Serfontein, Taute and Frans are our best options at centre. Of the youngsters, de Allende looks equipped to play test rugby and he'd be the one I'd add to the Bok mix. Frans Venter has come of age at 12 for the Bulls this year. Stokkies Hanekom, our new Jacque Fourie, was very impressive at 13 for the Lions before his injury and Howard Mnisi looks the real deal at 12 for Griquas. Pat Howard looked good in his two CC outings for WP at 13 only to get injured. Sadie looks solid, but not special. Williams has been pretty impressive for the Sharks at 12, with Whitehead solid and much noise has been made of their U21 centre pair Tyler Fisher and Andre Esterhuizen. Lets hope Bulls Baby Boks Dries Swanepoel and Rohan Janse v/Rensburg break into Super rugby next season.

At 10, Morne has to go, no questions asked. We need a fit Goosen taking the Boks to the next level. Lambie should have been used far more at 10 this year. Meyer did him a disservice. Jantjies has rediscovered his mojo at the Lions and one cannot ignore his fabulous touches. Catrakellis looks a useful steady ship and Pollard looks to have the makings of a good 10. Zielanga of the Sharks looks handy but its too early to tell and its time we had a good look at Tim Swiel. The real options at 10 are Goosen, Lambie and Jantjies.

At 9 du Preez showed he still had it but is bound by his Jap contract. Pienaar has been very disappointing and has added nothing of substance, we need to move on. Hougaard showed good form prior to his injury, his service was spot on. He just needs to rediscover his attacking mojo, the S15 should give him ample opportunity to do that. We have some useful youngsters in v/Zyl, Reinach, Schrauder and Groom. du Preez, Hougaard, v/Zyl and Reinach are our main contenders.

At prop Beast is still going strong and Jannie is hanging in there. His primary role as a scrummager is still strong, its in general play that he is letting the side down......by that I mean his inability to get into position to make the tackles. We need to see how next year pans out with Jannie. Coenie is a great player to have on board, but he needs to invest in one position only. He has been solid at 3 and I dont buy into all this crap that he is not a 3. Bullshit he has been good. These 3 props will stay in the equation and rightly so. Steenkamp has to go, he should not have been there in the first place....he is past it. Not sure why Adriaanse is in the squad, but he is solid enough, but there are better options at 3. Malherbe came of age in the scrums this year and will be a real contender for the tighthead spot. Frik Kirsten has been damn good for the Bulls at 3 and is a definite outsider. Marcel v/d Merwe is back from injury and he destroyed Herbst the other day. But like Coenie, he needs to concentrate on one position as he plays both 1 and 3 and is a real prospect. Kitshoff has had an outstanding year and has to come into Bok contention next year, failing which, Meyer should be shot. Nkanyane has also had a great year and really impressed me at 3, the man is immovable in the scrums. I also like Mellett at loosehead for the Bulls. We certainly have depth at prop. Malherbe, Kitshoff, v/d Merwe and Nkanyane all look test material.

At hooker Bismark and Strauss stand tall and Chiliboy is our third best. Of the youngsters Kyle Cooper and Callie Visagie look useful. I also like Scara Ntumbeni. The older boys dominate the hooker spot.

At lock we have a world beating pair in the making with Etzebeth and Steph du Toit. We have to get rid of Jandre Kruger and Franco v/d Merwe, why they were ever selected or retained is beyond me. Both not physically up to test rugby. Flip might still have a role to play, but I suspect me have better youthful options. Lood de Jager has been one of the finds of the season and should have already been rewarded with a Bok squad call up. Paul Willemse has been good for the Bulls and looks a good back-up prospect for Etzebeth. We have a good few youngsters coming through.....no more so than Baby Bok Jacques du Plessis being played at 7 for the Bulls. He is not a 7 and needs to be restored to lock. At 2.01m and 120kg he is too big for flank. The young Sharks pair of Peet Marais and Lewies look good and hopefully we will see more of Ruan Botha with the Stormers next season having missed much of this one injured. Bullbring and Bresler are good young locks and Meyer should keep an eye on the 3 young locks playing overseas in Quinn Roux, Jandre Marais and Carl Wegner.

We have loosies to burn. The incumbents in Vermeulen, Louw and Alberts offer much grunt but little finesse. Alberts blows hot and cold and I am convinced Louw is no opensider much like Schalk never was. Vermeulen has had a good year. Of the youngsters, Kolisi has taken his chances well and Arno Botha looks set for a long Bok career. Coetzee and Labascagne are both test material and should always make the extended squad. Same can be said of Elstadt who for some unknown reason has never found even a training squad favour with Meyer. v/d Walt of the Cheetahs is another damn fine loosie who needs investment. A place for Brussouw is a must, Meyers treatment of this guy is pathetic. Fourie is a real candidate at 6 and Kriel of the Lions looks really good. I really like Nizaam Carr at WP and Mtembu of the Sharks looks good as did du Preez of the Kings. Daniel has found his form again but is a linking 6, not an 8. Rhodes and Hattingh are good players. The one call Meyer should make is one to CJ Stander........Meyer needs to wake up to this option. He is our best young loosie of the lot.

So to sum up, we have Willie, Taute, Lambie and Frans as current options at 15

We have Habana, Willie and JP as current options on the wing.

We have Jean, JJ, Serfontein, Frans, Taute and de Allende as current options at centre

We have Goosen, Lambie and Jantjies as current options at 10

We have du Preez, Hougaard, v/Zyl and Reinach as current options at 9

At prop we have Jannie, Beast, Coenie, Malherbe, Nkanyane, Marcel v/d Merwe and Kitshoff as current options.

At hooker we have Bismark, Strauss and Chiliboy as current options

At lock we have Etzebth, Steph du Toit, de Jager and Willemse as current options

We have Vermeulen, Louw, Arno Botha, Brussouw, Elstadt, Labascagne, Coetzee, Kolisi, v/d Walt and CJ Stander as current loosie options

And behind these 40 players we have some serious depth......Meyer has no excuse moving forward

 Not willing to give up on Jantjies yet are you Saf? What is the purpose of getting rid of Morne but including Jantjies. I would rather have Morne for these reasons:

passing ability: They can both get the ball wide. Morne's pass is probably consistently more accurate than Jantjies

tackling ability: Both are as bad as each other and for this reason, none should move forward with the Boks new game plan

Kicking ability: Morne Steyn is a lot more reliable as a points machine.

Flair and skill: Neither has much. Jantjies likes to think he is a Carlos Spencer but he really is not. His bullshit never pays off and thats why his team hogs the wooden spoon. He also came in and tried his best to wreck the Stormers year. Morne Steyn is a much safer player at least and doesn't try fool the defence whilst only fooling himself like Jantjies.

Flyhalf's like Cooper and Jantjies are no good anymore. Their "trickery" is not confusing anyone. Take Dan Carter and the touches of Butch James when he burst onto the scene. Now that is class. Their little chip kicks almost always getting a result. Quick hands used when its on. Jantjies does not know when to use these kicks and quick hands to create space. He just tries them all the time and 1 in 10 times it comes off which is not good enough. Every team he plays in results will prove that.

Full backs: Lets look past Frans Steyn as he is not quick enough and he is not going to ever be. For much hype about him, he hardly scored any tries. SP Marais is the future but nowhere near ready now. He makes way too many mistakes. Still kicking out on the full a lot and running supporting players out of space. He needs a great fullback to pull him aside and work on that. Its a pity Aplon is getting on in the years and is smaller built because he is playing some great rugby. Hits the line as hard as he can for a small man and often making line breaks or putting others in space. Would not have minded having him over Kirchner these past few weeks. Willie is not a great full back and he is way more comfortable on the wing. Big, strong with ability to beat defenders (total opposite to Kirchner) is what we need and thats what JP offers. Aplon on the bench to open shit up later in the game and run rings around tired legs.

Wings: Habana and Willie. Simple! JP to play back up but specialise as a fullback. Aplon and JJ also options.

Centres: Jean, Hanekom, JJ and Serfontein now. Massive pressure on them to come from Tyler Fisher, Small-Smith and Howard once they develop.

Flyhalfs: Zeilinga, Goosen, Catrakilis or Lambie (only if he is allowed to play the game that got him to the top. Right now, I have not seen enough of him to know how good he is. What I last saw was sh!t!)

Scrumhalfs: Du Preez, McCleod and Reinach

boklogic

I do agree with some changes in the team and Saffex has a point about some of the alternatives.   His insistence in respect of Jantjies makes his suggestion looks silly and opens himself up for criticism.   Problem is that Saffex has a fixation about Jantjies and he refuses to see what is wrong with him.

I have maybe an hang up about Morne Steyn dating perhaps back to the final in the Under 21 WC - when Morne was a serious flop nearly costing us the title.   He always remained he same through the years - but for the improvement of his goal  kicking ability.    Morne never was a complete flyhalf.   Last week only Meyer said he instructed Morne to stand flatter and past the ball more effectively  to the backline.   Problem is it had a contra as well.   Morne passed the ball - when he had to kick - eg in the case of the play which resulted in Messam's second try.   

I do believe Saffex got it wrong about Francois Steyn too.   I believe that Steyn will have to climb a mountain to make the Sharks Super 15 line-up next year.   He is unlikely to make the starting spot next year in either the 12 or 15 positions.   Unless he can prove that he is more speedy and his positional play is better at full back than it was when he played in that position this year, he is unlikely to make the starting line up.  

I do not know how much you have seen of the CC matches this year - but I do believe that Marais is better than you seems to think.   He is anyway better than Kirchner in virtually all aspects of play - so I am perfectly happy if he is brought in to replace Kirchner.

I would add Shreuder to the list of scrummies.  He really developed well recently and is probably a mile ahead of McCleod - who still make inaccurate passes often enough and is at times not really good enough.  He is a poor version of Sarel Pretorius at best.   I have a few problems with Du Preez as well - he was excellent in the game against Argentina - but made a few errors in the last two tests - maybe the result of  him not knowing the real capabilities of his teammates  he has to play with in tests.

Incidentally I like Zeilinga - he looks a lot like the younger version of Johnnie Wilkinson - physically as well.   However, it is unlikely that he will start in the remainder of the CC games and may not get  the starting position in Super 15 next year with Lambie around.  May not get enough starting games to really show what he is capable of.

In the final analysis - Meyer should really look objectively at all top performers from SA in Super 15 next year and do not do what he did this year - pick sone players who is way down the list in that competition.   That is how we ended up with players like Kirchner,  Kruger, Alberts and co.                  

Mozart

How test ready was Kirchner, Kruger, Alberts and co to play for the Springboks?   Proven failures in Super 15 - why were they in the team at all? 

Serfontein had some playing time in the last to tests - but in the Habana case on the wing - where he was clearly out of position.   He should have been at outside center at the utmost - with Engelbrecht on the wing - but that was not the case.   I would still play him from he bench for the time being - while we have a better option in Jean at no 12.

But for the rest - the newcomers cannot be worse than some of the existing Springboks have been.   It is whilst keeping those under-performers that we cannot make progress as a team - they are all in their later 20's and if they have shown no growth over the last few years - what will make them show improvement in future? 

Kirchner and Kruger were poor, but Kruger would never have played but for Flip Flop's poor move. The Wooly Booly had a fine test against Oz, but has been awful so often. His defence in this test was embarrasingly bad. Probably our strongest moves here would be Bekker at 5 and Willie back to 15 with JP on the wing.

As far as the forwards are concerned, we dominated the AB scrum while Bismarck and Jannie were playing. I'm not sure there is a better scrumming tighthead...maybe Malherbe but he needs to prove it. The loosies will be terrific up north in wet conditions....but on the highveld it would be nice to have Arno back in the mix. Stephanie can understudy Bekker if he can be made available. There is no need for Coetzee or Nyakane, or Adriaanzen or Lood or Labuschagne...they would simply weaken the team.

I wish Serfontein had shown more while on the park, I have little faith in JJ, but Serfontein really looked out of his depth. Sure he was on the wing....but that's where the young Jean had to ply his trade and he was always a factor.

For all the discussions of the "exciting" new talent in the S15, the only player that came through was Willie, a consensus choice.  Just like last year the only player to really make it was Etzebeth. Rugby rewards experience, and youngsters have to learn their trade.

Mozart

You are absolutely wrong about players like Labuschagne and I suppose your hatred of him  got the better of you in his case.   How can a player who was rated as the best loosie in all teams with the highest rating in Super 15 in the loosie position in respect of the following weaken the team:-

*  Highest number of tackles made

*  Highest number of line out takes

*  Highest number of overturns in possession at breakdowns for any blindside flank

*  Top number of ball carries for blind side flank -  proven ball carrier both in traffic and in open play - resulting in scoring of tries or try assists

*  Excellent performance in ball protection at breakdown points. 

The above is why he was rated so highly as a loosie.  If he was in any other country he would have been an automatic selection as blind side flank.   In our case he is not even near selection.   The question is why are players selected with deficiencies in virtually all the above facets of play and when they played in Super 15 - when they showed preciously little of the above.  

Take a player like Alberts - he is average to poor in line out play - his tackle ratio is low and limited - he never has recovered balls in tackle situations or cause turnovers in possession - he cannot carry balls in open play and his carrying in traffic is limited with minimal territory gain and dangerous in isolating himself - his ball handling is also problematic - so why is he an automatic selection?   I fail to understand that one - so pleas enlighten me.

OOm the S15 regularly throws up highly rated loosies that bomb at test level. Watson and Coetzee (last years Labuschagne) are two good examples. Watson benefited time and again from hunting behind Schalk's tackling. He was near the top in statistical performance. But when he faced an AB pack, he turned out to be just  a small, slow loosie. Dave rated him,  another product of Dave's school....but in truth, he was pretty useless against big packs.

Alberts is the opposite. He is never going to win any beauty contests. But he has the physical power to impose himself and in his way has good rugby instincts. His try against the Poms at Twickenham showed his quick reactions and instant grasp of the rules

Let's be clear I don't hate Labuschagne or Lood or any other player, although I had a strong dislike for Watson. But you have to watch these guys in tightly contested matches against the better teams. And in those matches I haven't been impressed by Labuschagne...I think the ABs will eat him up. But that's just my view, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Mozart

I have a friend called Mozart - he has a problem similar to mine in some ways.  What he does not want to see, he does not see - what I do not want to hear, I do not hear.

A typical example is the statement made by Mozart after a Cheetahs - Stormers game that he saw nothing that Labuschagne did of any value during the game.   This was after Labuschagne had a major role in a Cheetahs attack that ended up in a try and carried the ball for about 30 meters in another move.

He also made a general statement about the games he saw where Labuschagne did not impress him.  So I looked up the Labuschagne stats of three games lost by the Cheetahs (the Bulls, the Stormers and the Brumbies) and the and found that those were as follows:-

  *   Ball carries     -     8

  *   Turnovers      -     3

  *   Tackles          -    29

  *   Line outs       -      8

Mozart cannot ever see anything wrong or below par done by Alberts for the Sharks so I picked the games played against the Bulls and Blues and because the Sharks did not play another of the stronger teams - I added the Force to the list:

  *   Ball carries    -      7

  *  Turnovers      -      0

  *  Tackles          -     17

  *  Line outs       -       0

Stistically Labuscgane's stats were good in the relevant games and was in fact better than those of the opposing loosies, but Mozart obviously saw nothing of what he has done.   What is interesting to me - what did he see about what Alberts did in the three games whose stats is reflected above, since the games the Sharks played was against much weaker opposition than the Cheetahs played against?        

Serfontein has looked as ready as any player I have seen.......kindly point out why exactly he looked out of depth according to you, given he hardly got the ball and was playing out of position on the wing.

Moz you really do make things up at times for argument sake........but for the record kindly talk us through what leads you to believe he is out of his depth

Um Boklogic, where did I say I was selecting Jantjies as my Bok 10, he is my 3rd choice behind Goosen and Lambie.

One certainty is that he is far better than useless Morne.......in every department, especially on attack and his defence has been good for some time now. My guess is that you have not watched a single game he has played for the Lions this CC - for if you had, you would not be speaking so much nonsense  

Mozart

Just one further question on Alberts.   According to you Alberts " has the physical power to impose himself".

How does he impose himself if it is not reflected in his ball carries and tackles?   What does he impose himself on - because he does not play any role in breakdown ball recovery and there is no rolling mails in evidence anymore?  

The reference to the try scored at Twixkenham was a fluke - he was standing in what would normally be an off side position when a ball bounced off an English player and he scored a try - a real fluke.   If his rugby instincts was reasonable - he could have done more to prevent the first Messam try.   Firstly - he fell over his own feet and did nothing to recover the ball after the tackle on Aaron Smith - he was the nearest player to where Smith landed - and in the second analysis ended up in the maul needlessly with no cover to try and stop the Messam  Read push over the line.   If he had any rugby instincts whatsoever - he would have acted differently.   Thinking rugby and instincts are definite missing traits in his case.  So try again.