FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Boks NOT Shaks come first

Boks NOT Shaks come first

Started by Beeno118 REPLIES489 VIEWS· 10 Jun 2014, 22:32
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jun 2014, 22:32
#1
10 Jun 2014, 22:32#1

Ex Supersport

Here we all thought that, for the good of South African rugby, Springbok rugby needs to come first?

After all, that is what counts in most Sanzar countries – the national team, a year before a World Cup, should always take priority.

Not in South Africa.

Any self-respecting rugby fan has to stop and shake his head when hearing Jake White now blames the Springbok training camp for his team’s loss to the Stormers this past weekend?

Last week the Bok management were asked to put certain players on ice – including Frans Steyn – because they were medically unfit to play.

The Boks complied and what did White do? He continued to play these players into the ground.

It is true that the Sharks players are “exhausted” with eight games on the trot and an overseas tour to boot.

In most sides there is a squad system, where players are rotated so that the coach gets the best out of them.

The Bok camp had been planned for months, to coincide with all five franchises being in South Africa. It wasn’t something that was sprung on teams by surprise

The Bulls also had a number of players out this past week and also suffered a shock loss to the Lions, but you never heard them complaining about the Bok camp.

They simply got on with the job, accepted they were not good enough and then moved on.

It is one thing to want the Sharks to do well, and it is increasingly certain that they will be South Africa’s only representatives in the final weeks of Vodacom Super Rugby.

It cannot be at the expense of Springbok rugby.

The irony that White misses is that he used to bemoan Super Rugby coaches overplaying players, and not keeping them fresh for Springbok rugby.

He was the same coach who sent Victor Matfield home from a Tri-Nations tour because he was unfit, only to see Matfield play the next Saturday for the Bulls.

He was also the same coach who chose Chiliboy Ralepelle against overwhelming advice that he was not ready for test rugby, but played him anyway.

In both cases the coach he was at loggerheads with was Heyneke Meyer.

Now Meyer is Springbok coach and, whether you are a Sharks fan or not, the bottom line is that the Springboks remain this country’s first rugby priority.

While I hate to say it, this would never happen in New Zealand.

There the franchises channel up to the All Blacks, and the black jersey is the No 1 priority, even if it harms Super Rugby aspirations.

With their centralised contracting system players are placed on sabbaticals to increase their longevity, their conditioning is done so that they are at their peak when the international season rolls around.

If a player has too much game time, you’d be sure Steve Hansen would be on the line asking for said player to be rested.

In South Africa the tail wags the dog. Jake tells the Bok coach not to train Steyn, then plays him himself.

It is a situation that is alarming in itself, one that will never contribute to the Springbok success, and one which highlights the problems that Saru CEO Jurie Roux is desperately trying to fix.

The bottom line is that Bok rugby matters little to White, except when it is a stepping stone to getting back into the international game.

His history speaks for itself.

In this case the Boks deserve as many fresh players as they can get, and Super Rugby coaches who work with, and not against them ahead of a tough international season.

One has to be careful re this article. Its very true the lack of a central contracting system is a huge problem. However to go and blame Jake for doing what he thiunks is best for the Sharks is absurd.  All coaches do what is best for their team and not the Boks. THAT IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM - NOT JAKE ALONE.

The problem is that we have the incorrect structures for the modern professional era. Also too many provinces as well. Add in the player drain and one can see we fight our battles with one hand tied behind our backs. There is no common will to solve these issues. We still do too well.


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
10 Jun 2014, 22:35
#2
10 Jun 2014, 22:35#2
 SARU appointed Pdivvy the clown of world rugby, so expecting them to run a highly effectve centralised organisation is far beyond their capability. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jun 2014, 22:44
#3
10 Jun 2014, 22:44#3

So Jake should be loyal to a system that made it as hard as possible for him to succeed. And when he did succeed and win the RWC they turfed him out without any thanks.

 

 

Screw 'em might be an appropriate response.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
10 Jun 2014, 23:04
#4
10 Jun 2014, 23:04#4
 White went off his trolley a number of times.  He did not allow Francois Steyn to train with the rest of the team on Mondays and Tuesdays because of hi knee problem and selected him for the team to play the succeeding weekends anyway.    The latter played for ten minute and then start buggering up - but White is in many ways like Meyer.  Meyer picks his pals for the Springbok team - White picks his protegees for the Sharks team.
The article hints at it - there is no love lost between Meyer and White - this had a long history in any event.
The other issue relates to Matfield mentioned in the above article.  Matfield wanted to be the Springbok captain and he undermined John Smit.  That was the real reason why he was sent back by White.    It really had nothing to do with fitness at all as alluded to in the above article.  
Problem is not only with the coaches - some players think they are bigger than the game - irrespective of how they perform.
In the attack on White - the article writer forgot one thing.  That is that like at present White was forced into selecting Black players by the system.  Rallepele's selections were one of those. 
I do not think that the attack on White was a new "insight: by the writer - one wonders where it originated from?   The world is a wonderful place - such articles does not come to the fore in a vacuum - somebody obviously wanted it aired. 
The heading of the article i correct - but the aim at White is not 100% correct.  Steyn for instance walked out oin the Springboks and aid he will be playing for the Sharks in July.   Meyer stocks up the team with ex-Blue bull players from foreign clubs and would not give provincial players a chance to prove their worth in the Springbok environment.  By him ignoring local players - he undermined the provinces and encourage players to leave for Europe and other destinations.   
Meyer picked Willie le Roux because his favourite - Kirchner - after buggering up in Super 15 was injured and he for that reason delayed the announcement of the Springbok team so as t see whether Kirchner would not play well in th game immediately before the next test.  Kirchner was as per normal buggering up and Meyer could not do otherwise but to select Le Roux.  Yet Kirchner is back in Meyer's squad in any event.   
What I am saying - the whole problem is a two - way street and there are problems between Meyer and some of the provincial coaches in any event - Whi te is just one of those.                  
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 23:15
#5
10 Jun 2014, 23:15#5
 Bloody hell. That piece makes Dan Brown look  like a rank amateur.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
10 Jun 2014, 23:20
#6
10 Jun 2014, 23:20#6
  Wind POM you are sounding very English these days with your bloody hell bit!Please windpomp don't give yourself airs and graces. Bwahahhahahahahaha
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
10 Jun 2014, 23:52
#7
10 Jun 2014, 23:52#7
 Fokof? That sound South African enough to your liking?
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
10 Jun 2014, 23:54
#8
10 Jun 2014, 23:54#8
Given that the Sharks are the only remaining SA team with a chance of winning the SuperXV, our players need to be managed. 
The Sharks need to become the 2nd SA team to win a SuperXV.
White should be rotating them a bit more, but surely if a Sharks player player is tired from competing every week in the SuperXV- and their are other suitable candidates at bok level, the Boks can rotate their players. 
Frans Steyn could be rotated Jan Serfontein. Jannie Duplessis with anyone, Alberts with Schalk, 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
11 Jun 2014, 00:10
#9
11 Jun 2014, 00:10#9
 Sharkbok, you are kidding right?
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
11 Jun 2014, 00:14
#10
11 Jun 2014, 00:14#10
no Draad. 
For the other SA teams in SuperXV their tournament is over. 
Surely if the Boks could choose between a Sharks player that is tired, or a player of equal ability from say the Stormers or Bulls- then go with that player. 
It is only Wales at home after all, not the 4 nations or end of the year tour. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
11 Jun 2014, 00:29
#11
11 Jun 2014, 00:29#11
 No, it should ALWAYS be the Boks first, not the other way around. One should always pick the best possible team. Players should be rested at their provincial/franchise teams. New players and players returning from injury or struggling with niggles should play from the bench. The AB's nearly lost against a second rate Pom team, so we should not take Wales lightly. They also had a warmup game which the poms did not have.The Boks also have a center crisis ATM, so Fransie should at least have played this week untill De Jongh recovered and someone else was called into the squad. I smell a rat.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jun 2014, 00:31
#12
11 Jun 2014, 00:31#12
 @Sharkbok. You cannot be serious. Since when can a S15 title be  more important than the national team?

That is pure bullshit. It is disrespectful to any nation to say: "It is just this, that or the other, nation and not the RC, or whatever".

It is because competitions like the RC have become more important than traditional tests between nations that the rugby set-up has become such a balls-up.

We are forever calling for the return of traditional test series between nations and then when a traditional rugby nation like Wales go to SA for a tour, we want to snub them like this? If that becomes the norm we should not be surprised if rugby nations tell us to piss off in future.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jun 2014, 06:35
#13
11 Jun 2014, 06:35#13
 So the English team could b denuded because the Aviva final is to be played - while in SA the Super 14 is not important?   What a farce we have here by Dof Doos.  
The Springbok team is important - that is why the foreign cllub players should only in extremely rare cases be considered for the Springbok team.  I can see reasons to play Habana and Louw - the rest are not needed.  

   
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jun 2014, 12:33
#14
11 Jun 2014, 12:33#14
 clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 11113RE: Boks NOT Shaks come first
June 11, 2014, 04:35:32 So the English team could b denuded because the Aviva final is to be played - while in SA the Super 14 is not important?   What a farce we have here by Dof Doos.  
The Springbok team is important - that is why the foreign cllub players should only in extremely rare cases be considered for the Springbok team.  I can see reasons to play Habana and Louw - the rest are not needed.  

   





Ag jou onnosel fokken kont. You are the one who always claim to be on top of IRB Regulation 9. Now piss off and go read it. Then come back and try again. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
11 Jun 2014, 13:57
#15
11 Jun 2014, 13:57#15
 Dof Doos
The section you love to quote  was ignored by the English clubs on a technicality - that is a fact.  When the team should be in New Zealand to train for the upcoming matches - the Saracens and Northumberland players were missing because of the Aviva Final and that impacted drastically on the team selection for the first test against the All Blacks.
Are you just a simpleton with idiotic tendencies or just fuckin dumb?     
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jun 2014, 14:03
#16
11 Jun 2014, 14:03#16
What technicality. You have no clue what you are talking about. You are so fucking stupid and you believe all the bullshit you dream up. You are so fucking stupid it is even funny. There is also no team called Northumberland in the Premiership. In addition, the last Super 14 was played in 2010. We are in the fourth season of Super 15 already ou Rip van Winkel. 
Please explain the technicality that you are talking about and quote the release rules for IRB Regulation 9, or STU. 
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
11 Jun 2014, 14:12
#17
11 Jun 2014, 14:12#17
I've just changed County, have I ? I actually live in NORTHAMPTONSHIRE, Mike. You mean the NORTHAMPTON players, not NORTHUMBERLAND. 

It wasn't a technicality. It was the culmination of the Season. Our Season wasn't over and we were all still contracted to play for our Clubs during that window. Clubs play wages, simple as that. They wanted the best players for the Final. The reason they weren't available for the First Test was two-fold....they hadn't been free to train with England so were not part of the Squad at that point and they had player protocols when they got to NZ that should prevent them playing in the First Test. Lee Dickson had a waiver to sit on the Bench when Danny Care was injured and Ben Youngs had to play. He then had to take a Bench spot and took to the field for a few mins, which was not really what anyone wanted. The RFU have strict player protocols regarding safety. 
I would also like to add that we have many injured players too, not just the lot playing in the Final that impacted on selection.And finally.....we almost damned well won !! So stop going on about my " weakened " team !!!!!! 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
11 Jun 2014, 14:14
#18
11 Jun 2014, 14:14#18
 
Tell me Doffie ... when last were you laid?

You sound like someone who hasn't had any for quite some time .. and now it's everyone's elses fault.

Chill bru!!

There must be some honey willing to help you out with a bit of pelvic movements.

Then you can come back all cheerful like and be nice ... what ya think??





CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
11 Jun 2014, 14:25
#19
11 Jun 2014, 14:25#19
 Becs, there is no long explanation needed. Mike is either busy winding up again or just plain ignorant. I suspect the latter. The rules are plain and simple. England were scheduled for four games on tour in June. The first test, the second test,  a game  against the Crusaders and third test. The June International Window provide for the release of players for three games. Neither the RFU or the NZRU were going to be able to force Saracens and Saints to release their players for the first test. Simple as that. Straight forward. No technicality BS, nothing.
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news