Boks - Squad ...

The Springbok squad for the Barbarians match is:

Lourens Adriaanse, Prop, Sharks, 4 Test caps

Nizaam Carr, Flank / No 8, Western Province, 2 Test caps

Uzair Cassiem, Flank, Free State Cheetahs, 0 Test caps

Ruan Combrinck, Wing, Golden Lions, 4 Test caps

Damian de Allende, Centre, Western Province, 20 Test caps

Lood de Jager, Lock, Free State Cheetahs, 25 Test caps

Faf de Klerk, Scrumhalf, Golden Lions, 8 Test caps

Jean-Luc du Preez, Flank, Sharks, 0 Test caps

Thomas du Toit, Prop, Sharks, 0 Test caps

Pieter-Steph du Toit, Lock, Western Province, 17 Test caps

Eben Etzebeth, Lock, Western Province, 53 Test caps

Lizo Gqoboka, Prop, Blue Bulls, 0 Test caps

Rohan Janse van Rensburg, Centre, Golden Lions, 0 Test caps

Cheslin Kolbe, Fullback / Wing, Western Province, 0 Test caps

Jesse Kriel, Centre / Fullback, Blue Bulls, 17 Test caps

Pat Lambie, Flyhalf / Fullback, Sharks, 53 Test caps

Malcolm Marx, Hooker, Golden Lions, 1 Test cap

Bongi Mbonambi, Hooker, Western Province, 3 Test caps

Oupa Mohoje, Flank, Free State Cheetahs, 14 Test caps

Tendai Mtawarira, Prop, Sharks, 84 Test caps

Trevor Nyakane, Prop, Blue Bulls, 26 Test caps

Rudy Paige, Scrumhalf, Blue Bulls, 5 Test caps

Sergeal Petersen, Wing, Free State Cheetahs, 0 Test caps

Tian Schoeman, Flyhalf, Blue Bulls, 0 Test caps

RG Snyman, Lock, Blue Bulls, 0 Test caps

Roelof Smit, Flank, Blue Bulls, 0 Test caps

Adriaan Strauss (captain), Hooker, Blue Bulls, 63 Test caps

Jamba Ulengo, Wing, Blue Bulls, 0 Test caps

Piet van Zyl, Scrumhalf, Blue Bulls, 2 Test caps

Francois Venter, Centre, Free State Cheetahs, 0 Test caps

The Springbok squad for the 2016 Outgoing Tour Tests against England, Italy and Wales):

Willem Alberts, Flank, Stade Français, France, 41 Test caps

Ruan Combrinck, Wing, Golden Lions, 4 Test caps

Damian de Allende, Centre, Western Province, 20 Test caps

Lood de Jager, Lock, Free State Cheetahs, 25 Test caps

Faf de Klerk, Scrumhalf, Golden Lions, 8 Test caps

Jannie du Plessis, Prop, Montpellier, France, 70 Test caps

Jean-Luc du Preez, Flank, Sharks, 0 Test caps

Pieter-Steph du Toit, Lock, Western Province, 17 Test caps

Eben Etzebeth, Lock, Western Province, 53 Test caps

Johan Goosen, Fullback / Flyhalf / Centre, Racing 92, France, 10 Test caps

Bryan Habana, Wing, Toulon, France, 123 Test caps

Jaco Kriel, Flank, Golden Lions / Kubota Spears, 7 Test caps

Elton Jantjies, Flyhalf, Golden Lions / NTT Communications, 9 Test caps

Steven Kitshoff, Prop, Bordeaux-Bègles, France, 7 Test caps

Vincent Koch, Prop, Saracens, England, 7 Test caps

Jesse Kriel, Fullback / Centre, Blue Bulls, 17 Test caps

Pat Lambie, Fullback / Flyhalf, Sharks, 53 Test caps

Willie le Roux, Fullback, Canon Eagles, Japan, 39 Test caps

Lionel Mapoe, Centre, Golden Lions / Kubota Spears, 9 Test caps

Malcolm Marx, Hooker, Golden Lions, 1 Test cap

Bongi Mbonambi, Hooker, Western Province, 3 Test caps

Franco Mostert, Lock, Golden Lions / Ricoh Black Rams, 4 Test caps

Tendai Mtawarira, Prop, Sharks, 84 Test caps

Trevor Nyakane, Prop, Blue Bulls, 26 Test caps

Oupa Mohoje, Flank, Free State Cheetahs, 14 Test caps

Rudy Paige, Scrumhalf, Blue Bulls, 5 Test caps

Sergeal Petersen, Wing, Free State Cheetahs, 0 Test caps

JP Pietersen, Wing / Centre, Leicester Tigers, 69 Test caps

Roelof Smit, Flank, Blue Bulls, 0 Test caps

Adriaan Strauss (captain), Hooker, Blue Bulls, 63 Test caps

Francois Venter Centre Free State Cheetahs 0 

Piet van Zyl, Scrumhalf, Blue Bulls, 2 Test caps

Warren Whiteley, No 8, Golden Lions / NTT Docomo Red Hurricanes, 12 Test caps

 Squad against Barbarians ... 
Cheetahs - (5)
Cassiem, De Jager, Mohoje, Sergeal Petersen, Venter

Bulls - (10)
Gqoboka, Jesse Kriel, Nyakane, Paige, Schoeman, Snyman, Roelof Smit, Strauss, Ulengo, Piet van Zyl

Lions - (4)
Combrinck, Faff, Janse van Rensburg, Malcom Marx

Province - (6)
Carr, De Allende, PSDT, Etzebeth, Kolbe, Mbonambi

Sharks - (5)
Jean-Luc Du Plessis, Thomas Du Toit, Lambie, Beast, Adriaanse

No one selected from any of the smaller franchises ...
Total = 30
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Squad against England, Italy and Wales ... 
Cheetahs - (4)
Lood, Mohoje, Sergeal, Venter 
Bulls - (6)
Kriel, Nyakane, Paige, Roelof Smit, Strauss, van Zyl   
Lions - (3)
Combrinck, Faff, Malcolm Marx

Province - (4)
De Alende, PSDT, Etzebeth, Mbonambi

Sharks - (3)
Du Preez, Lambie, Beast

Overseas based - (13)
Alberts, Goosen, Jannie Du Plessis, Habana, Jaco Kriel, Kitshoff, Elton Jantjies, Koch, Willie Le Roux, Mapoe, Franco Mostert, JP Pietersen, Whiteley 
No-one selected from any of the smaller franchises.
Total = 33

 No Shaun Venter? Probably the best back in the Vrystaat team and the brains in their attack! Piet van Zyl made the squad, but no Venter?

 Not only that ... the Cheetahs are the 2016 CC champs ... they are undefeated this season ... they just slaughtered the Bulls ... and they can't even get a single prop into either squad.
Why was Rhule over looked? Instead we have the carthorse JP Pitersen in the mix. 

CC
What reasonable team can one get from that squad for the EOYT:-
I would say the following should be considered:-
15 Willie le Roux, 14 Ruan Combrinck, 13 Francois Venter, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Sereal Petersen, 10 Johann Goosen, 9  Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Jean Luc du Preez. 6 Jesse Kriel. 5 Lood de Jager, 4  Eben Etzebeth, 3  Vincent Koch, 2 Adriaan Strauss (c), 1 Tendai Matawarira
16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Stephen Kitshoff, 18 Jannie du Plessis, 19 Pieter-Steh du Toit. 20 Roelof Smit, 21 L van Zyl, 22 Pat Lambie, 23 Jesse Kriel
The above will not be acceptable in view of the BEE requirement.   I think the folloqibng players should not have been anywhere near the squad:-
Willem Alberts,  Louwrens Adriaanse, Jannie du Plessis, Elton Jantjies, Oupa Mohoje, Trevor Nyakane, Rudy Paige and JP Pietersen. 

 Pretty good team Mike!!!

And CleanCut, yes it's unnnaceptable how there aren't more Cheetahs players...instead we have players there that traded their country for the money!
Ridiculous...

Why doesn't SA compensate playersa that stay in their country? It does not send a good message, no no.

 Unfortunately that is the nature of professional sport......money first.
We really cannot blame players for chasing the real money as opposed to the RAND and who knows if these players will ever return to SA shores to play in out local competitions.
As to compensating players to stay here just look at the exchange rate and the coffers of the local rugby unions.....where are they going to get the money to compete.
The ANC can print more Rands but the real money is beyond RSA borders.
Attendance for local games is in decline as is support for the National side this in turn adds to the problem of compensating players.
Sad state of affairs.
I for one never missed a game at Kings Park when we lived in RSA and the ground was always packed. Last year I attended a Currie Cup game at Kings Park and the main stand was well supported but the rest of the spectator area was perhaps 30% full.
My point is that if u cannot fill the stands u cannot get the cash to build and retain top players plus we have the additional transformation issue to add to the fire.
Two things that drive professional sport are Money and Money......
Further I do agree that the Cheetahs have been shafted once again in selection.

Pretty good team....you cant be serious. England would put 20 points over that team.

 Mozart
Easy to criticize others - who do you think should be in the team taking into account the squad as selected.
Please take into account the recent test performances as well.  

 I would only put Le Roux at fullback with Van Rensburg at inside centre...the rest is pretty good actually...

 Quacky
I made a mistake and changed my proposed  side by putting Le Roux at full back and Jesse Kriel on the bench.   After Habana's recent performances he is way past his sell-by date.  

The team is a joke....let me help Kriel....he's a fullback, no he's a centre.....nah flopped there, better try fullback again Combrink ....a solid place holder Venter....sure lets pick a guy slower than Meisiekind at outside centre Allende....the worst tackler ever at Bok centre Sergeal.....oops here comes the high ball Goosen .....lost the most balls in the RC, so lets put him at 10 to get more balls Faf.....just the scrummie to settle Goosen's nervous breakdown Koch....yep lets assure the opposition get their fair share of penalties Strauss....can he do it on his own Beast....oh good the Beast provides one more adult Etzebeth....no problem there Lomp....the dumber the better and another great defender Kleintjie Kriel....a Vunipola road bump Jean Luc du Preez.....just in case Goosen doesn't spill enough balls, du Preez will oblige Whitelock ...the final piece in the the feeblest loosie trio in Test rugby. This side would lose by 30 points to the Poms, beaten in the set pieces, ground to dust in the mauls, shredded for pace and technique in the centres and blown away by high kicks onto Sergeal.

 Mozart at it again.   I could have seen that list of players he has criticized endlessly in the past - often and normally based on total misconceptions and a disastrous tendency to lie about situations. 
The liar is repeating some of his lies above and who in the bname of everybody is Whitelock?  I thought he was a New Zealander.
The slowest SA center ever was Fat Fransie and he together with De Jongh are the worst defenders ever at center.  
One mst accept that the fool does not mention a few of his favourites above.   Lets add Alberts who in two recent tests played for about 65 minute and in the two tests combined made 7 tackles and missed 2.   In one test in 35 minute he did not make a single tackle.   That I what we get when Mozart supports a player.   he preach only about defense and has no idea about rugby at all.        

 Well Mike ... from that lot I'd prefer
1. Kitshoff
2. Marx
3. Koch
4. Etzebeth
5. Snyman
6. Kriel
7. Du Toit
8. Whiteley
9. Faff
10. Lambie
11. Ulengo
12. Janse van Rensburg
13. Venter
14. Combrinck
15. Kolbe
16. Strauss (no other options available)
17. Thomas Du Toit
18. Nyakane (no other options available)
19. Mostert
20. Paige
21. Goosen
22. Mapoe
23. Willie Le Roux (no other options available)

The slowest SA center ever was Fat Fransie and he together with De Jongh are the worst defenders ever at center.  
Actually, no. When I calculated the tackle success of De Allende and De Jongh before the last few rugby champs tests De Jongh's tackle success over his test career was in the high 80s. De Allende's was 65%. Let the numbers speak Mike, not the voices in your head.

 He spoke of Fats Fransie. How's you career tackle "calculations" regarding him?
Also, how did you come up with their (De Jongh and De Allende) overall "test career" tackle stats?
Show me where you got the "numbers"?

Pakie,De Jongh's tackling success rate would be better than De Allende's, however he doesn't command the attacker and he offers nothing in attack. He is a decent player but NOT anywhere close to Test standard. And I am NOT saying Allende is !

 Exactly, Monster!! 
Nicely put!!
He's too damn small to be effective at test level. No way a midget can "command" anyone ...
Even the retired Nonu would eat him alive.

ESPN stats. Added their tackles made/missed counts across their test careers and calculated the average. 
Frans Steyn - unfortunately ESPN does not supply detailed stats before 2007, or if they do I don't know how to get to it so I cannot factor in those figures. In all the tests Steyn played at #12 or #13 (or came on as a replacement at center) between 2008 and 2012 he attempted 96 tackles and made 86 for a success of 89.5%. 

 Give me the link please.
Thanks.

Well Monster, the question wasn't about De Jongh's credentials as a test player. I agree he is a placeholder at best. The claim was that he and Fransie are the worst defenders ever as Bok centers. The figures don't support the claim. Not sure if De Allende is the worst ever either, but certainly 65% is unacceptable for an international midfielder and way below De Jongh and Steyn's test success rates.

Just Google <player name> espn stats. 
Here's the link to Steyn's match list. You have to go into Details for each game to see the stats.

http://en.espn.co.uk/statsguru/rugby/player/15421.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

 Thanks man.
Will check it out.

 I based my comments on De Jongh and Fat Fransie on their Super Rugby performances since 2012.   Since Fat Fransie had no tests since 2012 and De Jongh only had two (in which his defense was putrid as well) - that was the basis for the statement.   In his last 6  tests he had a 15,4% miss tackle ratio - which is not at all as bad as was his subsequent record in Super Rugby.    
However, there is also one other aspect to be borne in mind iro Fat Fransie, namely his ball carries.  In six tests played he carried the ball 49 times for a total meter gain of 97 meters.   That is totally ineffective as well.    

Since Fat Fransie had no tests since 2012 and De Jongh only had two (in which his defense was putrid as well)

De Jongh has started 4 tests in 2016 with a tackle success of 79%. Not great, but not a disaster either.
De Allende's 2016 tackle success is 69%. 
So if De Jongh's 79% is "putrid", what do you call De Allende's 69%?

 Pakie
De Allende had one poor tackling game.  In the AB test he made 14 tackles missing 2 in the same game De Jongh made 7 tackles missing 3 - work that one out for yourself.  
De Jongh had the same record in the Aussie test - where according to Mozart he was organizing the defense.   
I looked at the AB and Aussie tests as a norm.   In the tests played De Jong made 14 tackles missing 6 and Allende made 14 tackles missing 2.
However, the argument is really unnecessary - since De Jongh is not in the squad anymore and like Fat Fransie will hopefully never return.       

 Bottom line ... we don't want either in the squad.
We have better talent in the mid field and it's time they're selected. 

 I just don't understand why some of you guys still pick Paige as a srumhalf/bench option...
WHAT DID HE DO THIS WHOLE TIME? I must have missed his best games, cause he's nearly non-existent during his matches. (for both the Bulls and Springboks)

The only thing he does well is ckecking himself out on the big screen!

I guess quotas really force some players...

 In the AB test he made 14 tackles missing 2 in the same game De Jongh made 7 tackles missing 3 - work that one out for yourself. 
No, De Jongh made 12 missing 3. Come on Mike, it's embarrassing that I keep having to correct you. You are one of the top posters here (well, in post count if nothing else). Show some respect to the people readin g your posts by at least getting your facts straight. 
I looked at the AB and Aussie tests as a norm.

No, you have to look at all tests because we don't only play test rugby against Australia and New Zealand. You will, of course, want to ignore the others because De Allende's worst defensive displays this year were against Argentina in Salta (missed 4 made 1 for 20% success) and Ireland (missed 4 made 9 for 69% success).

 The National Treasure is back? Jannie du Plessis, an all time favorite of Mozart's is back & barely a comment from his detractor(s)

De Jongh actually has fine tackling technique. He goes in low and makes a decisive tackle, stopping forward progress. You dont see him clinging onto the runner like Allende, JJ and Kriel. Sure he is not a big chap, so he isnt going to knock guys back. But if we had a stat for metres made in the tackle....de Jongh would be among the best, because he makes clean low tackles. He also makes a lot of tackles beyond the advantage line. Early in the AB game there was a classic example on Leinert-Brown. He also missed LB deep in the AB quarter which led to a break out try. Its sometimes a dangerous tactic, But that deep it can yield great attacking ball and Hougaard and others should have provided protection, I don't believe de Jongh is a permanent solution for the Boks, size matters at centre. But technically he is streets ahead of Allende, Mapoe, Kriel and JJ defensively.....and has to be considered in that light.

 Mozart
De Jongh is pushed back with ease and his tackling technique is not as sound as  you professes.  How many of his low tackles are effective?   At least 30% is missed and the rest can at best be described as weak - allowing the tackled player to off-load the ball with ease.
But that is not all that counts - what about the non-existent attacking ability of De Jongh?   Is tackling the only function of a backline player?   Your harping on tackling gives the impression that it is.      

At least 30% is missed
Only 20% in 2016 at test level and even less during De Jongh's test career prior to this year according to the statistics. Up your game Mike, this is embarrassing.
and the rest can at best be described as weak - allowing the tackled player to off-load the ball with ease
Weren't you supposed to provide evidence for this claim...since about 5 or 6 weeks ago already? I'm still waiting. Until you do, this is just another fabrication. More of your nonsense. 

 Pakie
It is clear that yo u lied previously about De Allende and then said on rechecking you found you missed some tackles.   Let me remind you - you claimed he missed 7 tackles and made 12 while the stats indicated he made 15 tackles and missed 6.   So Pakie knows better than ESPN.
I cannot even remember what your famous challenge or required evidence was - but knowing you I assume it was your standard BS.  So let me know what the so-called evidence was about and I will deal with it on the basis that you normally makes only contributions on the site aimed at certain other members comments and you are so deep up Mozart's backside he cannot have a tonsils operation because it will affect your head.  

I am the bionic man Tokkie....no tonsils, no gall bladder, no appendix......a trifecta. But do us a favour stop trying to ape Rooilochte.....it really doesnt work and it's quite disgusting.

When did I lie Mike? In the post where I admitted on posting the numbers that I skimmed through the video and may have made some errors and that I will accept ESPN's numbers? Is that the one "lie" from more than a year ago that you're still clinging to all this time? While just in this thread I've caught you lying at least 3 times?
And yes, you can remember the challenge, you're just pretending you don't because you were caught out yet again running fabrications out of your mouth with no facts to back it up. You are a dishonest, spineless weakling and everyone here can see it.

 Constantly and consistently and always about the same players Mozart denigrates and supporting his crazy preferences.  
You and Mozart has one thing in common - you quote the stats when it fits you and do your own estimate otherwise.   And that estimate is then excused when your problems are pointed out.  
You at least admit you made a mistake - Mozart just keep on lying.   However, one thing you have in common - you are indeed low life.      

you are indeed low life. 
Why? Because I keep exposing your bullsh!t? Because I tarnish the image of the big rugby expert you are trying to promote for yourself on this forum, when all you're really doing is fabricating and lying? 
Three times in this thread alone I've caught you fabricating numbers - numbers that are documented in the public domain that you have no excuse for getting wrong other than deliberately lying.
You should be ashamed of yourself and start cleaning up your act instead of calling others "low life". 

So by the way, all this blaming of others you do for being dishonest? There's a psychological term for that. You are a classic case.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

 Lets not call you a liar - just a person making crooked interpretations of what happened on the field of play - on the same basis as your disreputable friend Mozart.   Then you call it all kinds of opinion expression.  
As to the De Allende issue entioned above - why did you not check the stats before you provided your version of "Factual" information - because it was not factual and you tried to cover up your BS afterwards when caught out.
It happened in other cases too and that makes your interpretations  so inaccurate.   That  is often enough as false as Mozart's interpretations are - total hogwash
Both you and Mozart have made such fools of yourself on this site and caused me to call you two low  life.   That is the only reasonable thing to call you.