Bosch's Kicking Game

Bosch must surely be the second choice flyhalf for the Boks after Pollard. Elton Jantjies is good, but Bosch has more all-round skills.  He is also a good option for the bench - especially if Rassie continues with only 2 backline players and 6 forwards. 

This works well for the Boks as SA have lots of depth in the forwards, and can outmuscle most teams- and then squeeze the life out of them with excellent defence. 

Bosch can play XV - and perhaps even cover on the wing as he has pace. 

Although he would be a disaster if he had to cover centre on defence - so the other bench backline player would need to be a centre. 

In the rugby analysis of the Sharks game plan, their up and under kicks are pinpoint. Mostly done by Bosch. 

I have serious reservations about Bosch featuring at 10. I think he could do it in a pinch, but he'll struggle physically. He is the natural successor to Willie where he can link up further out in space.

Interesting vid by the way, enjoyed that. 

You have reservations about Bosch and adored Steyn - who was the worst flyhalf in the history of Springbok rugby - but an effective kicking dummy at goal,   That really show what a ridiculous site member you are . LOL 

Bosch's kicking coach is Lambe and that helps him a lot as well.

The odds of Bosch ever surpasssing Morné at any level of the game are literally close to zero. Morné isn't the most successful South African 10 of all time for nothing. Bosch is unlikely to succeed at 10. If you think super rugby is a barometer for test capability, you are kidding yourself. Yet, even in the substandard super rugby, where defence is quite weak, he still has issues. A talented player, but where would he fit in the dour Rassie model? The trade off isn't worth it and moves away from our core identity. Something that was Coetzee's undoing in 2016. At 15? We may have a spot for him. 

He was around too long and if a real flyhalf was around he would have been more successful than Steyn who never was a flyhalf - but as I stated a kicking at goal dummy,   

Traditional rugby in SA was always a 15 man game until it turned in circa 1987 to a 10 man game.  It was changed only by Du Plessis in 1997 after which Mallett took over his trained squad and had  a 15 test winning run, before he had to start making changes and could not find the rugby players to continue,  Thereafter the Springbok rugby took a dive into the 10 man game again.  It worked for White in 2004 and 2005 - collapsed in 2006 and 2007 and White was saved by Eddie Jones in the 2007 WC when he was brought on board to teach the Springboks the basics of the 15 man game..  

The impact of Jones lasted for about 2 years and then went down the drain and kept being so for  the next decade even getting worse under Meyer nd Coetzee,   Erasmus got the team back to playing 15 man rugby and we are now at least back to playing traditional Springbok rugby after a reverse into the 10 man game for most of the last 30 years.              

Eddie Jones did squat. 

Rassie is Skop 'N Pop. Territory backed by defence. You are embarrassing yourself again, as you use yet another thread to raise the same worn-out argument. 

Pollard is still coming into his own. Will he surpass Morne? Only time will tell. Of the 10s we have, he is the only one with the potential to reach that level. Bosch is not cut from the same cloth. It's patently clear that moving in that direction will fail. The Rassie model does not support that kind of 10, and his weaknesses will only be highlighted. We really should know better by this point, after all the things that have happened with Lambie, Goosen, Jantjies, Pretorius, or even Earl Rose (Who made Peter's training squad). Bosch is a small man, not built for physical contact. Put him in Willie's role and we gain more of his strengths, it's pretty obvious. 

Pollard w as nearly destroyed as a flyhalf by Meyer and that he was one of the glorious WC winners last year was due to the top coach in the world at present  - Erasmus,    Steyn is not a flyhalfs  backside - never was so lets accept that even playing one test makes any player better than the kicking dummy Steyn.      

Morne is, to date, better than all South African tens of the last twenty years, all but Butch. You have no argument to counter that. Right up until 2015. 2013 was one of his best seasons. The bitterness that is directed towards him has only grown since the failures of the plastic fan's idols. Lambie, Goosen, Boshoff, Swiel, Grant et al, all tumbling to rubble. It amuses me. 

Morne was an outstanding 10, and ended his career with a better tackle percentage than Dan Carter. Who must be a reaaaally terrible defender if we take the casual plastic's perspective seriously? 

As per Bosch? He is a better open-field runner. He likes, wants and needs space. Put him at 10 and he becomes another crabber who plays in front of the gainline once he realizes how small and frail he really is, and loses confidence. At 5'9 and 82kg, he isn't going to get much bigger. More weight on a small frame will only lead to injuries. He is no 10. He is a fullback. He has yet to prove he has mastered the art of the long dart; Morne's pass was absolutely on point. Great distributor off both hands, he could get the attack outside the edge of the defence with one bullet pass without having to crab. He amplified the power of the screen and decoys because of this. Something we have yet to see again post-2015. 

Put Bosch at 15? Then he has the time and space to be a link man. He may well compensate a little for the clunky and slow developing, deep-lying attacking structures that Jose Erasmus favours. Gott knows we need some more wing participation beyond 0.7%. 

Damian Willemse's future may lie at inside centre or fullback - and not flyhalf.

That is the view of Swys de Bruin, a former Lions head coach and Springbok assistant coach, who shared his sentiments in an interview with Netwerk24.

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Willemse has featured predominantly at flyhalf for the Stormers this season, and their coach John Dobson indicated he wanted to give the Springbok an extended run in the No 10 jersey.

"I am not entirely convinced that Damian Willemse is a flyhalf. He is a brilliant player and I enjoyed coaching him so much. I just wonder if he isn't a 12 (inside centre) or 15 (fullback) because he plays firstly for himself. He looks at what is on for him, before he passes and supports," De Bruin said.

In six Tests for his country, the 21-year-old Willemse has played centre, fullback and wing.

De Bruin added that the Sharks' Curwin Bosch had been the standout flyhalf of the South African teams this year before Super Rugby was halted due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

"The kicking game has stood out for me, particularly because teams shoot up so quickly on defence. To kick for space or tactical kicking - the player who is best at it is Curwin Bosch."

Bosch started his career at the Sharks at flyhalf, but was used mostly as a fullback under former coach Robert du Preez, who preferred his son Robert Jnr at flyhalf

Not so regarding Morné. Best passer of all SA 10s of this century.

There's more to 10 than just kicking our running fast. Both Willemse and Bosch are incomplete prospects. Willemse at 12? He is not better than Andre. Not even remotely close. You can't have passive players in those positions. Willemse is a fullback, but so too Bosch. 

The worst passer ever is according  to  AO  "the best passer ever,   This about the guy who was the  wort flyhalf ever - the only guy who could not read games - near to never attacked the gain line himself and he did not know when to pass and when to kick,   The Great flyhalf who even Meyer - his braai pal - fired once in 2012 and twice in 2014 from the Springbok team and the best he did after that was to be the bench flyhalf for Stade Francais,   

Esterhuizen is a joke as well,   Given opportunities to prove that he was competitive on test level and failed.  Was not even fourth in line for the WC squad selection and never made the squ ad for very good reasons,   

If our friend AO ever select a Springbok side they will lose by 30 points.  He does not know the game of rugby and cannot identify  test level players,   He really is a hopeless case.   LMAO.          .    

The worst passer? Show me some examples? I love how it eats the plastics up, I love watching you strain your parted tongues to belittle the man. Even more, I love the anguish as the idols fall to the wayside. Your pleasure is my bucket fill of laughter! 

"Esterhuizen is a joke as well,   Given opportunities to prove that he was competitive on test level and failed.  Was not even fourth in line for the WC squad selection and never made the squad for very good reasons"

A truly clever man would avoid raising Andre in any conversation with me; I covered his and Dud1's entire 2018 season as well as a dozen of their most important super rugby games last season, with many test games covered. No, Andre emphatically outplayed Damian throughout the Jose Erasmus years. This wasn't even close, and for Dud1 to have flubbed so badly in the final of a World Cup only emphasizes the embarrassment. It really does show that the coach was a forward, not the sharpest flint when it comes to analytics. Just as Lambie failed to achieve that decisive breakout performance in seven years, Dud1 soldiers on, from one disaster to the next, heading into his seventh season, still searching for that moment to establish himself at this level of the game. 

Agree with your take on Boks and running rugby Mike. 

Pollard is a better flyhalf than Morne, no doubt about that. Morne was a competent player. Org exaggerates his abilities but you demean his too much. 

Curwin is developing and the question really is can he like Naas overcome his small size. That applies both at flyhalf and fullback. Kolbe did but few can. 

Org's take on Allende is way off and his take on Du Toit boggles the mind.

Herr Orgelpfeife needs to admit he got it wrong regarding these two players and Rassie and move on. 

Time for Herr Orgelpfeife to also admit the Boks played great attacking rugby under Rassie. Apart from the periods mentioned by Mike Bok rugby has always had a nice blend of forward power and attacking flair. Rassie got the balance spot on. 

If only some oaks had stuck with Beeno on Rassie, Allende and Du Toit they would not be in tbeir curr ent pickle/predicament.

Shezza if he is good enough to play test rugby he can prove it in the Super Rugby comp. 

Play well and he will get his chance. Then as with the majority of players he will have prove himself at this higher level. 

He is definitely growing as a pkayer. The Sharks style and team suit him. 

Great running rugby? Lets put it this way, Meyer's 2015 campaign notched up over 1000m more than Rassie's 2019 campaign, and that was supposedly conservative! Willie's production, as well as that of Pollard, were much, much higher. This was before attack figures bloated across the board after 2015. How can a coach encourage so much kicking and so few carries yet be a step forward ball in hand? You really have to explain that one to me. To be bottom of the pile in attacking figures but still be "great"? It seems not only has Josè Erasmus transfered the dour Stompies game that annually ranks bottom 2 for attacking output, but also expectations as well! Quite an achievement. It's probably a good thing that Josè Erasmus is so conservative, as even with so few carries, so few balls to hand, they already ranked quite high for handling errors, fumbles. So much for that clinical attack! 

Bosch is not going to get much bigger, or stronger. He isn't built for power. 17 year old Frans was strong enough to tackle any opponent from 1 to 15. Young Bismarck was already a freak of nature. Eben was 20 when he made his debut and took to it with ease. The assumption is to wait, to just slap on some more muscle. It doesn't work like that. Once he does that he'll suffer injuries, he'll lose the only attributes that brought him this far and be discarded. Sad. Don't force him into a role he can never succeed in. He is our best candidate to replace Willie. 

Actually, it's very comparable. We can discern where the team placed its emphasis. If a team is well below the average for carries and metres, they are not running with the ball. It really is that simple. When wings have 0.7%, or in one instance 0.2%, of team possession, the ball is not going wide. As for opposition? Australia and New Zealand were stronger in 2015, so too Argentina and we faced a fitter and better prepared Welsh side. Interesting that we achieved a better tackle percentage in 2015 against Australia when we had far less possession that in 2019, yet the team's total attack figures were in many cases more than double. This assessment is consistent with my frame-by-frame annotated screenshots of each phase. 

Back to Bosch. So, we now want him at 10. So, we have a defensive vulnerability? How do we accommodate this? Move him around like previous Wallaroo coaches moved Cooper around? It didn't really work out. We have him for his boot, now what? How does he upgrade the team? Where will we see his attacking ability? Is he going to be a running 10? How is that going to figure into Jose's attacking structures? What about his passing? Does he possess a long dart - something that has been really missing at half-back? I don't see where he will improve on Pollard, I don't see where he will be better than at fullback. 

Willemse was given freedom to be the Willie playmaker, he failed. Not very good reading play, a bit passive and makes mistakes. He isn't skilled enough to play 10. These freelance running types never work. If you really wanted to go that route, you'd need an Esterhuizen at 12 to work in tandem with his running. Taking it to the line, short passing game needs to be on point, and Esterhuizen is the best distributing back South Africa has. This would, potentially, open up 13. There's a lot we could do. But, Willemse is a poor decision-maker who cannot read play. What Will Jose Erasmus do though? The slow, clunky game is too deep for a runner to truly excel. Our screens and decoys don't fool anyone, they never did. They just break upon the exterior units and catch them deep. Lots to consider.

Bosch is the better runner by far. If we review the 2019 Super rugby season, Bosch was the highest-rated carrier of all South African players, with 8.5m per carry, he ended the season with 898m run in 106 carries. Willemse was 9th with 5.0m per carry, ending with 719m in 143 carries. (Do note that Steph was second from bottom of all top 30 carriers). Of course, we could take gameplan into the equation, but considering how poor the pack was for the Sharks, how often the backs played on the backfoot, it levels out - the Sharks were disadvantaged. The sterile phase play was dour and ineffective, but they could direct their possession more securely and had vastly superior set pieces. 

In the end, Bosch is the better of the fullbacks. I'd only ever consider either one at 10 in a pinch, the same way I considered Butch at 12. 

"Elton Jantjies is good" ... ??

Really?

Good at what?

Panic ... chaos ... ??

Good at what?

A chance does not mean an extended run, that's a handout. In professional sports, you cannot be assured of extended runs, you have got to take the chances you get and make the most of them. He had multiple chances last year and was found wanting. It's as simple as that. Great Boks don't take dozens of tests spanning multiple years before proving themselves. He is no 10, he is a fullback. I'm still skeptical of him ever being a good 12. 

Maybe, we'll see. Rassie went from Willemse to Gelant. Obviously he isn't as sold on Willemse as you think. 

Not very clever of AO - he argues about everything he knows nothing about.   If I have to make a list of the best flyhalfs from SA Super Rugby since 2012 Morne would never make the top ten pf the flyhalfs.   

I'm sure Josè Erasmus is smart enough to consider the intercept, the hospital pass, the capitulation against New Zealand and the painfully inept and ineffective front foot fail against England. Let me guess, those never happened. Willemse was a class act . Truth be told, Gelant was much better than Willemse at both super rugby level and test level. Significantly. 

Nicely put Augie.

Fully agree. A mere look at Jantjies says it all.

He was given many undeserved shots at the Goats 10 jersey ... and failed every time. Dumb Fuck Dave insists that his opportunities be extended indefinitely.

Willemse hasn't proven his worth at the Stormers yet. He's all hype and nothing else. Aren't their enough wannabes playing for South Africa?

Whatever AO spouts about rugby is always grossly inaccurate - so believe the exact opposite.as per normal.  LOL   

"wait for it - Morne Steyn being our best covering defender" ...-ing flyhalf

You see, it's that attention to detail that you lack. 

Back to Willemse, where are his great contributions? Two wins in six tests, he contributed to the All Black loss, and the England loss. He threw an intercept for a try against Argentina. I recall you blaming van Staden for that, as the ball sailed well over his head and into the arms of Moroni. He was impotent against England. He did score a try against Canada though, but surely we should be holding him to higher standards. An incomplete 10, who is really a fullback, and not even second or third in line to the throne.