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FORUM / RUGBY /  Brainy players are better than duds

Brainy players are better than duds

Started by clevermike44 REPLIES568 VIEWS· 12 Apr 2017, 07:56
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 07:56
#1
12 Apr 2017, 07:56#1
The following from timeslive:-
"Du Plessis is the most common surname of the 881 players that have represented the Springboks at Test level, with 14 of that name having played in the green and gold.

The Stormers' 22-year-old inside centre Daniel du Plessis could add to that list in years to come after a superb start to the 2017 season, playing in tandem with another callow youngster, EW Viljoen.


The pair have struck up a partnership that is both wonderfully skilful and athletic, but also technically and tactically sound with or without the ball.


Daniel is the son of former Springbok centre Michael and the nephew of Springboks Carel and Willie du Plessis, who played wing and centre respectively.


Because of the family he comes from it was almost inevitable that his path would involve high-level sport - and rugby in particular.


He has the genes to go far in the game but with the Stormers coaching set-up driving a culture of excellence, Du Plessis is more than cashing in on the advantage nature and nurture gave him.


He is proving a wall in defence with an impressive tackle success rate of 100% - 28 tackles.


Despite playing only 252 minutes of a possible 480, he is in the top 10 for line breaks as well, with four this season.


An All Black midfield of Stephen Donald and Anton Leinert-Brown last weekend didn't faze Du Plessis as he gave a superb performance to help the Stormers beat the Chiefs 34-26.


"For both of us [he and Viljoen] it was our first time playing against a New Zealand team," Du Plessis said.


"It was a bit of a change for us. They played a really high-tempo game, which is what we expected.


"They tested us quite a lot. To have pulled it through and come out with the win was really good for our confidence.


"We'll take a lot of learning out of that, especially me and EW and the young guys.

"We're playing a really good brand of rugby this year and I think the challenge for us against the Chiefs was to keep playing that brand of rugby and not go back into our shells.


"That's what we did really well at the weekend and hopefully we can take it on to the next games."


The playing in backlines require brains and skill.   The Springboks through the years and especially in the last decade had too much brawn and too little brain

The two outstanding players in backline positions have been De Villier and Habana - the rest though at times playing well - was not consistent and in the main pedestrian.


The brothers Willie, Michael and Carel du Plessis was top class.  Michael was a bit of a dirty player - Carel a real dynamo wing - scoring some of the best ries I can remember. 


Aside from Dan playing at center for the Stormers now - there is also his cousin Jean-Luc playing at flyhalf with the same characteristics.   He is at preset injured and will have a battle to get back as flyhalf with Robert Du Preez doing very well in that position.


However, the Stormers center pairing of Du Plessis and Viljoen is rapidly making a name for themselves.   They are class acts and is very effective.   I think together with De Allende the three are the ideal center combination for the Stormers. 


The two youngsters made massive progress thus far this year playing for the Stormers.   I have always admired Viljoen as a potential top class player from school days.  He played at full back previously and was moved by the Stormers to center.   The backline of the Stormers have shown that they can score tries and that represents a huge difference to the backline that used to play in the last 5 previous years.   In this the centers play a major role.


For instance - I have not checked but from memory Viljoen scored more tries and was credited with more try assists then was the case with De Jongh did in the period since 2012.      Viljoen is also a top off-loader of balls and very effective in that component of the game.    

   


 


BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
12 Apr 2017, 08:10
#2
12 Apr 2017, 08:10#2
Mike, are you still convinced that De Allende has what it takes? At first I though he was the answer we had been looking for, but it has been a long time since he last did anything convincing at 12. For me the jury is still out, but as far as I am concerned, he has still got a lot to prove before he is to be considered to represent the Boks again. His defense has always been an issue, and in over a year his attack has not had the penetration it had when he burst onto the scene.  
Regarding Du Plessis and Viljoen, they really do look like solid prospects, but these days I am inclined to give these young guys a couple of seasons to prove themselves before hopping on the they must become Boks bandwagon. Reason being, a lot of young players burst onto the scene and make an instant impact, but then teams figure them out and then they then just become ordinary players. The truly special ones continue to perform even when the opposition has seen them and tried to figure out their weaknesses. 

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
12 Apr 2017, 08:13
#3
12 Apr 2017, 08:13#3

 ...not so clevermike, ...the real test will be when those centres face NZ franchises with the likes of Tamanivalu, Laumape , Fekitoa and Moala ...those are line breaking centres.....

Donald and Leinert Brown are both 12s ...there's no specialist 13 in the Chiefs touring squad so to draw any conclusions based on last weekends game might be slightly premature..

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 08:30
#4
12 Apr 2017, 08:30#4
 Bluebok
De Allende was outstanding previously - but he fell into the clutches of Meyer.  In 2015 in especially the WC the ball went in the main from the scrummie to a loosie and the latter made hospital passes to De Allende - no chance to show anything under such circumstances.   last year he had to contend with a dysfunctional flyhalf and the coach was clueless as well. 
He only played one Super Rugby game this year and was outstanding in that game.  Apparently the Meyer impact has worn off.   Unfortunately he was injured and  has not played since.   I think that he will be back in the same vein as he was in that one game he did play in:-
Try Assist   -   1Carries       -   9Meter gain  -   63Clean Breaks -  1Defenders beaten  -  2Tackles made  -   7Missed tackles  -   1
Very impressive and more in line with De Allende of old.


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 08:38
#5
12 Apr 2017, 08:38#5
 Brycy
I would not be so loud about those centers after what happened to the Chiefs on Saturday
Granted those are top class centers with brawn - so we would like to see what happens when they play the Stormers.   Unfortunately the Stormers have to travel to New Zealand to play the Hurricanes, Highlander and  Crusaders away.  
That may be a problem with poor reffing thrown in - but I am pretty sure they will win all three games.   If memory serve me correctly the Chiefs beat all three teams mentioned already and it will be fun and games when the three has to play the Stormers.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 08:44
#6
12 Apr 2017, 08:44#6
In 2015 in especially the WC the ball went in the main from the scrummie to a loosie and the latter made hospital passes to De Allende - no chance to show anything under such circumstances. 
What utter nonsense. There is plenty of footage of De Allende for the Boks out there. Find me just one instance where he received a hospital pass from a loosie. Just one.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 08:44
#7
12 Apr 2017, 08:44#7
In 2015 in especially the WC the ball went in the main from the scrummie to a loosie and the latter made hospital passes to De Allende - no chance to show anything under such circumstances. 
What utter nonsense. There is plenty of footage of De Allende for the Boks out there. Find me just one instance where he received a hospital pass from a loosie. Just one.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 08:53
#8
12 Apr 2017, 08:53#8
 Listen Mong - just go and watch the games.  I did an analysis of the stats and found that Du Preez passed 50% less balls to the flyhalf than to a loosie in the WC games played.  The loosie concerned (mainly Burger) then passed the balls to De Allende when the defenders were already on top of him - FACT  The number of times it happened was constant and had a detrimental affect on the performances of Pollard as well.
De Allende in the game against the Bulls showed signs of having got rid of the Meyer game plan sickness  - but Pollard is still suffering from it.    Maybe he can also get over it and become a useful flyhalf again. 
      
BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
12 Apr 2017, 09:00
#9
12 Apr 2017, 09:00#9

 ...not so clevermike, ...no the Chiefs haven't beaten the Crusaders yet...

and I'm sure the refereeing in NZ will be as impartial as it was on the weekend...SO GOOD LUCK WITH THAT...

PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 09:12
#10
12 Apr 2017, 09:12#10
The number of times it happened was constant 
So I'll be able to pick any WC game and find at least 5 or 6 instances of that happening, will I? Sure, I'll have a look. Just the fact that you felt it necessary to use the word FACT in capital letters already tells me not only that you're making stuff up, but that you know you're making stuff up.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 09:28
#11
12 Apr 2017, 09:28#11
 Start with the Japan game and see what happened there - and then go to the Semi as well.   You can also throw in the Wales game as well.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 09:40
#12
12 Apr 2017, 09:40#12
LOL. I think I'll skip the Japan game since, you know, uh, De Allende didn't play in that game...
Not a good start Mike.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 09:47
#13
12 Apr 2017, 09:47#13
I know he did not - but the same game plan was applied in that game and De Villiers suffered the same fate.  He was useless as a result as well.   
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 09:51
#14
12 Apr 2017, 09:51#14
Don't start diverting from the issue already. 
Your claim is that De Allende didn't perform due to constantly being subjected to a scrummie - loosie - hospital pass axis. That's what we're working on here. Nothing else.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 09:52
#15
12 Apr 2017, 09:52#15
 Brycy
Not so sure about that - some refs this year was appallingly poor.  Some of th e NZ refs were same - but so were refs from other countries.  
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 10:52
#16
12 Apr 2017, 10:52#16
Boks vs Wales WC 2015 - Passes to De Allende
02:02 Pollard to De Allende in normal backline move06:42 Du Preez to De Allende
07:12 Pollard to De Allende backline move from ruck24:18 Du Preez to De Allende as first receiver from scrum26:28 Burger to De Allende on crash ball, beats first tackle48:12 Pollard to De Allende48:54 Louw offload in tackle to De Allende55:52 Pollard puts De Allende into a gap64:43 Du Preez to De Allende in space from a ruck66:28 Burger at scrumhalf pops to De Allende from ruck72:00 Du Preez to De Allende from ruck
Only one ball from Burger at first receiver to De Allende in what was a clearly planned crash ball move to set up another phase. No evidence whatsoever of a constant scrummie - loosie - De Allende axis. No hospital passes in sight.
Boks vs NZ later, when I have time.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
12 Apr 2017, 13:08
#17
12 Apr 2017, 13:08#17
 there's no specialist 13 in the Chiefs touring squad so to draw any conclusions based on last weekends game might be slightly premature.

That is the one game syndrome: people are craving for that one win, and once they get it, get carried away.

It tells about the SA rugby state of affairs as one win is enough for SA to draw long term plans based on nothing.

It is going beyond facing this or that player. If the stormers rise to potential contenders, other teams are going to study, break into pieces their game. At this moment, the hard part starts.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Apr 2017, 13:49
#18
12 Apr 2017, 13:49#18
 @The Trad. You have been talking a lot of kak on this forum and have been getting loads of flack from all of us  but once in a while you decide to cut the crap and say something very true. This is one of those cases:
"That is the one game syndrome: people are craving for that one win, and once they get it, get carried away.
It tells about the SA rugby state of affairs as one win is enough for SA to draw long term plans based on nothing."


RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
12 Apr 2017, 13:50
#19
12 Apr 2017, 13:50#19
"Du Plessis is the most common surname of the 881 players that have represented the Springboks at Test level, with 14 of that name having played in the green and gold."

Ou Maaik, I only count 11 Du Plessis Springboks, not 14.

I have Bismarck, Carel, Daan, Felix, Jannie, Michael, Morne, Nick, Piet, Tommy and Willie.  That's 11. Who am I missi ng?
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 14:33
#20
12 Apr 2017, 14:33#20
Boks vs Scotland WC 2015 - Passes to De Allende
04:00 Le Roux at flyhalf to De Allende08:20 Du Preez to De Allende10:21 Du Preez to De Allende23:20 Pollard to De Allende25:00 Du Preez to De Allende30:49 Pollard to De Allende47:08 Pollard to De Allende50:20 Pollard to De Allende57:00 Le Roux at flyhalf to De Allende65:32 Le Roux at flyhalf to De Allende
Not a single pass to De Allende from a loosie.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2017, 14:48
#21
12 Apr 2017, 14:48#21
Not even one?
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 14:49
#22
12 Apr 2017, 14:49#22
Not even one.  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 14:53
#23
12 Apr 2017, 14:53#23
 Mong
How many passes were made to forwards compared the number passed to the flyhalf in the first instance and secondly when a pass is made to the inside center directly and not to the flyhalf it essentially means the inside center must crashball.  Do you know what crashball means?    
Secondly - was those the only passes made in those games liar?   Where did the rest of the possession gains go.
Anyway according to you handled the ball in the test against Wales 16 times - you listed 10 ball handles by him - missing the plot again?
There are also ball handling by De Allende in the case of the Scottish test - where did they come from? 
Your story is so full of holes you must really be ashamed of yourself.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 15:10
#24
12 Apr 2017, 15:10#24
Haha, not surprising to see you getting a bit hot there ou Maaik as another of your fables go down in flames. More to come. 
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 15:17
#25
12 Apr 2017, 15:17#25
Reminder Mike, here is the point we're debating:
In 2015 in especially the WC the ball went in the main from the scrummie to a loosie and the latter made hospital passes to De Allende - no chance to show anything under such circumstances. 

So this...
How many passes were made to forwards compared the number passed to the flyhalf in the first instance and secondly when a pass is made to the inside center directly and not to the flyhalf it essentially means the inside center must crashball. 

...is beside the point. You could have brought that up as a perfectly reasonable explanation for De Allende lukewarm showings, but instead you chose to make up a fairy tale about hospital passes from loosies occurring "constantly".
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2017, 15:24
#26
12 Apr 2017, 15:24#26
One might of course make the same point about Kriel. Allende had 8 runs and poor Kriel had 1 run in the semi.....by contrast Nonu had 11 runs and Smith had 5 runs. Good luck waiting for the ball if you are outside the Tractor Allende.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 16:07
#27
12 Apr 2017, 16:07#27
 Mozart
S top talking KAK - and stop being a village idiot.   However, I am afraid this nonsense is normal with you with your totally deficient lack of knowledge about the game.
By the way this thread is about Dan du Plessis and the No2 Mong started off about De Allende because I criticized Meyer sh!t game plan and coaching in the  WC and other tests and nearly destroyed the careers of Pollard and De Allende.   The game stats I quoted above is  clear - De Allende is getting back to the player he was before Meyer got hold off him - Pollard is still struggling to do so.  
However, with your support Meyer and the kick and chase game with nothing expected from center bar defense, I suppose this goes straight over your head.      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2017, 16:16
#28
12 Apr 2017, 16:16#28
Tell us Tokkie what position did you play....assuming you actually played the game.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 16:20
#29
12 Apr 2017, 16:20#29
 At hooker - and that was many years ago - but unlike you I kept up to date with rugby - did not get stuck in the past.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2017, 16:30
#30
12 Apr 2017, 16:30#30
So what makes you think you understand flyhalf play?
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
12 Apr 2017, 16:40
#31
12 Apr 2017, 16:40#31
Boks vs NZ, WC 2015 - Passes to De Allende
00:23 Le Roux to De Allende00:44 Pollard to De Allende12:42 Pollard to De Allende21:20 Louw feeds turnover to De Allende at ruck47:49 Burger to De Allende with oodles of space - DA makes 20m54:13 Du Preez to De Allende65:57 Lambie to De Allende71:10 Du Preez to De Allende
Not only did De Allende not get any hospital passes, but ironically the only pass he received from a loosie (Burger) freed him up for his best run of the game.
And regarding this, Mike:
Anyway according to you handled the ball in the test against Wales 16 times - you listed 10 ball handles by him - missing the plot again?

I am counting passes he received, not total possessions. He received 11 passes, fielded three kicks and a Welsh knock-on for 15 total possessions by my count, which is the same number as the NZ Herald stats has him at.
You have been smashed again you silly little liar. In 240 minutes of WC rugby I couldn't find one instance of the so-called "hospital passes from loosies" which, according to you, occurred "constantly".
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2017, 16:49
#32
12 Apr 2017, 16:49#32
Mike totally discredited again.....stop making up rubbish to support your pathetically biased points. We should be able to rely on the facts reported by our fellow posters. Your disinformation lowers the discourse on this Board. Clean up your act.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
12 Apr 2017, 16:52
#33
12 Apr 2017, 16:52#33
 "Mike totally discredited again....."
It was Morne Steyn's fault......
BO
BokBFClub Pro421 posts
12 Apr 2017, 17:26
#34
12 Apr 2017, 17:26#34
 I think you guys are being a little harsh on Mike, English is obviously not his first language. He does well enough getting his point across as a one off post. The  big issue is his comprehension when it boils down to a debate. so we end up with Jump-gateKick-gateand now Pass-gate
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 17:34
#35
12 Apr 2017, 17:34#35
 This is the biggest BS ever from the Mongs.   This thread is about the Stormers center pair  and the only difference is that I mentioned something about De Allende.  From there the whole thing turns into a farce the Mongs are carrying on about.   The inconsistencies and lies are as per normal endless.
Heaven help anybody mentioning Meyer in a negative light - the Mongs cannot believe there is anything wrong with him.   Then they start with their normal display of ignorance trying to make up stories and not being accurate at all.     Pakie pick instances from the match and leave out critical info in the process.  
  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Apr 2017, 17:42
#36
12 Apr 2017, 17:42#36
So you never said: . 'In 2015 in especially the WC the ball went in the main from the scrummie to a loosie and the latter made hospital passes to De Allende - no chance to show anything under such circumstances' . ....right here on this string, are you so bent that you are dening that Lyingstein?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
12 Apr 2017, 17:52
#37
12 Apr 2017, 17:52#37
 Mozart
How many balls went to the flyhalf from the scrummie and how many went to Burger or another forward who became the first receiver?   In one survey based on evaluation of games Pollard received 19 balls - but Du Preez passed the ball 41 times to somebody else .   So where did it go to?  
Mong no 2 story about passing to De Allende is full of holes and in some cases  the Mong missed a  third of the balls handled by De Allende.   Her accuracy is about as questionable as ever and more or less in line with your standard  misrepresentations of facts.
The only liar about rugby on this site remains you and your faithful fellow Mongs. 
XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
12 Apr 2017, 18:31
#38
12 Apr 2017, 18:31#38
 Vark
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Apr 2017, 19:23
#39
12 Apr 2017, 19:23#39
 Brycie, correct, the NZ sides will get the rub of the green from the ref just like the Ceefs did last Saturday. I'm hoping the Stormers can win a match or 2 regardless.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
13 Apr 2017, 08:28
#40
13 Apr 2017, 08:28#40
Mong no 2 story about passing to De Allende is full of holes and in some cases  the Mong missed a  third of the balls handled by De Allende.   Her accuracy is about as questionable as ever and more or less in line with your standard  misrepresentations of facts.

No, I did not miss a third of the balls. I counted passes (because the issue here is only passes), not all possessions. Against Wales DA fielded 11 passes, as I laid them out above. He had 4 other possessions:
09:05 fields a kick-off21:08 fields a kick from Roberts40:24 picks up a Wales knock-on and kicks it forward65:14 fields a kick from Biggar
That is 15 possessions, which leaves just one unaccounted for which I can't find. It could be a pass he fielded from Pietersen where Pietersen just stepped into touch that slipped into the stats. 
Please, keep trying to discredit me. You're just showing everyone what a cowardly old fool you are.
This thread is about the Stormers center pair  and the only difference is that I mentioned something about De Allende.

This isn't about De Allende. It's about you. Bluebok asked you a question clearly because he wanted your opinion, and you proceeded to answer him with a bald faced lie. You are a senior poster on this board. For whatever unfathomable reason, some people respect your opinions. To then go on and lie to someone who in good faith engaged you, making up events that never happened, is just f8cking despicable and it drags this entire board as well as the game of rugby into the gutter. Grow a spine and clean up your act.
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