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FORUM / RUGBY /  Bring Back Rucking !

Bring Back Rucking !

Started by Wardad19 REPLIES285 VIEWS· 21 Sept 2013, 15:27
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WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 15:27
#1
21 Sept 2013, 15:27#1

 What do you folks think ? I honestly think it would speed up things and make it easier to ref too . I am sure a few of us remember curling up and protecting your head and dangly bits ! 

And with the plethora of cameras and the TMO I am sure dirty play can be kept to a minimum ! Aussie pretty boys might want some sort of helmet to protect their luvverly wee faces !

I still have dinks in my back and me thick skull has its share too ,no decent forward would get away without these " dueling " scars in ye olden days !

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 15:32
#2
21 Sept 2013, 15:32#2

 remember the battle of the bridge Wardad? Was it North Harbour vs Auckland? Was that to do with someone who was deemed to be over-rucking? 

I'm all for it Wardad - it might speed up ABs ball!

IH
IhiClub Pro201 posts
21 Sept 2013, 15:33
#3
21 Sept 2013, 15:33#3

i think the irb really needs to rethink this one. if it keeps players away from that side then do it.  the all blacks would suffer more than anyone else because they are always offside fiddling around at the rucks. I have vivid memories of the boks rucking the english aside in 99. the poor gimp was shredded.

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 15:34
#4
21 Sept 2013, 15:34#4

Wardad , i think it will give you Kiwis something else to cry about. Nobody can Touch your flyhalf without the fibres of the cosmos unravelling , now you want to give the Boks a chance to ruck you guys, bad idea. Face it the All Blacks do love laying about. So by all means bring it back, but i suggest your boys pad up.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 15:39
#5
21 Sept 2013, 15:39#5

Nope its you guys that would have to worry ,your boys are way to slow to slow to take on new rulings ,and this "ABS allways lay about rucks " myth would be shown to be just that ,myth. 

How do you suppose our boys coped before ? pretty good didnt they ! I suppose no bok or aussie or pom blah blah ever lay around rucks eh ?

Hey Hakwa ! yeah I think it was bro ,mayhem to be sure !

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 15:48
#6
21 Sept 2013, 15:48#6

you're overreacting Buzz and buying into this stereotype that the ABs lay about! No, they don't! There are up on their feet re-setting the defense again and again and again! If you find an ABs laying about on the wrong side, by all means, ruck him - it just means he's got an itch on this back that needs to be scratched!

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 15:57
#7
21 Sept 2013, 15:57#7

Im not over reacting , if i was over reacting i would make it apparent to you, probably by using lots of exclamation marks , like this " !!! "

Wardad, talking of taking on new rules quickly, It was very clear who has adapted to the new scrummage laws, you guys got humped by the Pumas, Australia with there drag queens even gave you guys a hard time, and that first scrum against us, PRICELESS. The only time you got any accendancy was when we had a player off, and even then it was a numbers accendancy not a strength one. So bring back the ruck , Richie "door mat" McCaw is what we will call him. :-)

Sterotypes dont just invent themselves Hakwa, a precedent needs to be set.

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:01
#8
21 Sept 2013, 16:01#8

And as I recall all those teams you named got "humped " by the ABS .

As for stereotypes needing precedence ,hmmm.....yes theres the odd bok "sterotype" you may want to toss in there eh ?

We call Richie the RWC and RC lifter upper of ! 

As I recall our boys dis allright under the old laws eh ?

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:08
#9
21 Sept 2013, 16:08#9

Its interesting you say that, we put how much past the Pumas at home in comparison to what you guys did ? Must be we have a far more gratifying version being humped.

And against the Boks , if i were a Kiwi , i wouldnt know where my team was in the grand scheme of things as they have not really been able to have a full 80 mins against a complete side. But lets not meander away from the point you initially wanted to make, rucking , im all for it but know this it will change the landscape of the AB game plan lately.

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:40
#10
21 Sept 2013, 16:40#10

Dont tackle us hard , but ruck me, but dont ruck me hard , only at the level that suits us on the day.

Come on Guys.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:47
#11
21 Sept 2013, 16:47#11

 Richie Mccaw would have retired ages ago if rucking was still around

HA
hakwaPro4,146 posts
21 Sept 2013, 16:50
#12
21 Sept 2013, 16:50#12

are Brussow and Pocock still around?

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
21 Sept 2013, 17:25
#13
21 Sept 2013, 17:25#13

Pocock, like Richie is injured, Brussouw not selected but not injured. so yes both are still around. Brussouw more so.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Sept 2013, 01:31
#14
22 Sept 2013, 01:31#14

 Yeah, I wouldn't mind if ruckking was brough back. It would change the game *retro' Style by may solve the problem of peopl lying all over the ball. This was the way it was played when I  was a kid. We also had to put the ball into the scrum straight. Is the game going back to its roots:?

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
22 Sept 2013, 01:51
#15
22 Sept 2013, 01:51#15

@buzz,

"Im not over reacting , if i was over reacting i would make it apparent to you, probably by using lots of exclamation marks , like this " !!! "
so exclamations marks is a sign of overreacting??? i dont agree but each to their own.

IMO lying is also a sign of overreacting, like u saying that carter isnt allowed to be tackled.

also ignoring the reality of the scrum scenario, Boks first scrum v the All Blacks, All Blacks are penalised for
a head pooping up and rightly so, next scrum, Boks do the exact same thing except two of their frontrow heads pop up, poite lets it go and every scrum after that was pretty much parity.

another overreaction is starting a facebook page cos a ref made one mistake, instead of starting a facebook page about how usless the Boks kicking game was.

wait for ellis park, im very confident the All Blacks will show u exactly why the Boks are No2 and why the All Blacks are the most succesful team in the world, but more importantly, why having bizzy for the 80mins or not means sweet F all.

if bizzy or any Bok player gets a card, All Blacks to win at ellis park by 30.
if no Boks gets a card, All Blacks to win by 30.

what ever happens, chances are SA will start another facebook page.

GO THE MIGHTY MIGHTY ALL BLACKS!!!

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
22 Sept 2013, 10:20
#16
22 Sept 2013, 10:20#16

 

  •  In my world it does
  • you can't interpret very well , what you see as "lying" was actually TIC. 
  • You calling poite biased at second scrum , and parity for you is 8 against 7. Cool
  • i didn't start a Facebook page so take it up with them not me.
  • i look forward to the game, hope it's a fair one , not ruined by poor officiating, I think it was Fitzpatrick who agreed with that logic and most other pundits.
  • your optimistic or you drink a fair amount
  • i think using point form with you might make it easier for you to understand my views instead of confusing you.
  • best of luck.
BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
22 Sept 2013, 10:35
#17
22 Sept 2013, 10:35#17

 Just to enlighten some of you kiwis who think all South Africans are disproportionate . Unlike some of the kiwi articles that have been produced here is a more interesting and clear article. And probably a better reflection of the South African attitude

 

Over the past week I have been chewing on the referee saga going on. I decided not to react. There was enough of that going on. Poite made a horrible mistake, one which, even with only the current systems in place, could have been avoided. I suppose that’s what further irks every South Africa fan, that it seems that pride and entitlement on the part of Poite had to play some sort of role in making the decision he made, the way he did Some fans are suggesting that South Africa be awarded bonus points – the ones we may have missed out on, but who’s to say New Zealand didn’t give us a good thrashing, had the game stayed a fair contest. And a rematch sounds so romantic and “Disney”, but lets face it, it’s not how things are done in the real world. Why would that be fair anyway? It’s over. Nothing can be done and I don’t want any special treatment or favours anyway.

What I do want is for this situation to be taken seriously. This is not an isolated situation. Too many matches have been spoiled by bad officiating and many have been solely decided by one bad mistake by a referee. I think fans are getting tired of this. I know I am.

Poite can be made an example of and, like a few before him, never get close to an international match again, but lets face it, another will take his place and make the same mistakes again. Fact is, if it’s “human error” then the fault lies with the system, not the ref? I’m on board with the call of the IRB that referees are also human. I have viewed them from a far as an entity that I have not always been able to associate myself with, but I have recently come to the realisation that against all my suspicions they are in fact human and not alien. It’s hard for a rugby fan to look at a referee objectively when passion and disappointment clouds all judgement. It doesn’t matter how difficult it is to spot every law and technicality or every slight knock on – that’s his job and we want him to make the right decision every time. I hate it when my team loses, but when they lose because a ref made a wrong call, I’m furious.

I expect a referee to have a perfect game every time – and I don’t think that’s unfair. I realise that it is almost impossible, but I don’t think it’s unfair. Too expect anything less, would make me one of those people who say: “Accept it, let it go, move on.” you know, the “It’s part of the game” type of people (you know who you are). And because that’s just what everyone has been doing, Bismarck got a yellow card last week that he did not deserve and if people continue accepting these errors as – “Part of the game” or “Just human error” things like this will continue to happen.

So no, don’t blame the ref, don’t even punish him, but please, who ever has the power,  do everything you can to ensure that things like this don’t continue to spoil our sport weekend after weekend. I can’t just accept mistakes as part of the game. When mistakes happen, solutions should be found to prevent them or at least keep them to the very minimum.

So many suggestions have been going around on what could solve this problem, because for me it is a big problem. It has been taking the joy out of too many of the games I have watched recently (including games where I am an impartial viewer).

Why can’t the laws be simplified? For example, if you give 10 referees a clip of the exact same scrum, would there be uniformity in their decision? I might be wrong, but I highly doubt it. That’s not just  a complicated rule being interpreted. It’s not fair. You continue hearing – we just want consistency, but if one ref blows a match one way and another blows the next match completely different, where’s the consistency in that? Rugby is a complicated sport and that’s one of the things I love about it, but there certainly is some merit in the argument that simplifying the laws will assist referees in improving their performances and consistency across the board.

There is also a strong argument being made for more power for the TMO. In fact there could be an argument for the TMO having even more authority than the on field ref, as he has the benefit of camera angles and slow motion replays. He has more time and less pressure. Why should a ref be able to go back to his decision? If a TMO disagrees, he should have the authority to overrule or ask the assistant referees to confer. As a viewer, I have always felt that in some instances a ref was unsighted to see an indecent when from my point of view it was a blatant error. A TMO has this same view and could therefore throw out the proverbial flag (as the sideline assistants do), wait for a stop of play and relay the incident to the referee, upon which a decision can be made. Any suggestion that time would be an issue is quite frankly verging on insane for me, as the game has slowed down so much for injuries and other fussy stuff on the field, that time might as well be spent on something important.

I also feel strongly about giving the captains the power to challenge. One challenge per half system should be instated, where the captain can challenge any call (when play has stopped). I say any call, because it should be up to the captain. And the captain can make as many ‘CORRECT’ challenges as he wants to. If he makes 20 correct challenges it just proves the incompetence of the ref, not the system.

Others have suggested that a second referee should be added to the field of play, where the field is divided in length. The counter argument is that a second referee would get in the way of play, which is fair, but surely it could be tested before it is thrown out. And if that does not work, I still feel that the referee on the field should not have the sole authority, or “final say”. Referees should work together. An assistant should never feel intimidated by the referee and his title as the authority on the field. It has surely influence assistants to ignore things the referee has missed in fear of “going over the referees head”. In fact, referees should be rated together. If a bad decision was made by one, it should reflect just as much on the other. They should work together in an effort to bring the best quality out of the game.

Incorporating many of these suggestions could possibly have the effect that rugby loses some of its rhythm, but I think referees should still be urged and rated (positively) on how capable they are of making calls without the assistance of replays. Therefore higher class games would be handled by referees who use technology less, without making too many errors and lesser games would be refereed by refs who needs more assistance. The advantage is, both games will end with fair calls.

There are so many things to be done or at least tried and tested to improve the officiating and therefore the game. All I want is for this really bad incident (just like so many before) to spark some action.

As for the Springboks. They can still redeem this situation. They just have to find some inspiration. Maybe this whole saga will just be the thing to do that. It certainly has sparked something in the supporters and I can almost guarantee that both the last games, but especially the All Black game, will be a huge thriller not to be missed.

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
22 Sept 2013, 11:15
#18
22 Sept 2013, 11:15#18

 Buzz: some interesting ideas. The NFL allows coaches to appeal a certain number of ref decisions in the game itself, I think it is three per game. Once and a while a decision is overturned.

BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
22 Sept 2013, 16:06
#19
22 Sept 2013, 16:06#19

The worry is that it may pervert the game as we love it, creating something that is foreign to the older school. I think that evolution of the game is part of it, but when it becomes to broken down we may lose the soul of the sport.

WG
What's going on?Club Pro237 posts
22 Sept 2013, 23:20
#20
22 Sept 2013, 23:20#20

Anyone see the rucking incident on the weekend where the Wellington player Adam Hill got sent off ?

I think he rucked his own team mates butt. Funny az.

It was reported that Wellington was shorn of personnel but i thought they were Lions not sheep.

— END OF THREAD —

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