Bryce Lawrence is the best ref in the world and you know it.

 I think so!

I second that !

 It is an opinion, one that is debatable and also greatly influenced from where you stand.  A subjective opinion on a man who seems incompetent to do what he should be doing.

if that indeed is so - then why has Lawrence ben removed from the test rugby referee panel - and he had to get councilling to get his confidence back after disastrous performances.   I watched carefully the last few refereeing efforts in Super 15 and he made an utter fool of himself in  being totally incomptent and biased.  

how many refs have you seen admit that they are human and may have made mistakes and but courageous enough to voice the doubts that they may have. Getting counselling is not a sign of guilt or weakness, it is a sign of self doubt and questioning and totally human - Compare that to Wayne Barnes who was miming to friends in a pub how he got rid of the ABs, how he was fist pumping in the stands as a spectator when the French scored a try against the ABs.

Lawrence has been removed from the test referee panel because SARU wanted to punish? him for their failure to score tries in 80minutes in one particular game?

Hakwa - we are all human I agree - and councelling is really an effort to correct shortcomings.   However, you must realise you are talking tripe as to SARU getting Lawrence off the test panel - they just do not have that kind of power.

Bryce Larence buggered up the game in the WC - after flopping in the Ireland game as well.   The evidence of both games were studied over and over again yo determine what he did during the games and based on clear evidence he was removed from the test panel.    He got Councelling afterwards - and buggered up badly in subsequent Super 15 games as well.   Did not help at all.

You know there is a factual statement - people get promoted beyond their level of competence and BL is one of those. 

Everyone looks for a scapegoat when their team fails as miserably as the boks in the WC and Bryce Lawrence was convenient at the time. Truth be known both the Welsh team and the Samoan team were better teams in their pool and more deserved than the boks of a place in the semifinals so your final placing in the WC is actually quite flattering all things considered.

Hell no! Don't get me startered...BL clearly had a job to do in the WC, get rid of the biggest threat of the ABs erstwhile campaign, the mighty Bokke. A job he did with merit and got the just reward, Ref of the year in the land of the one-eye. Shame on you Kiwis here for defending that appellation!

When I read the header I thought it was a send up or someone's sense of humour, now I note them Kiwis are quite serious. Perhaps it's time to remind them of how they carried on about Suzie after the '95 WC....then also throw in the blatant forward pass missed by an incompetent Ref and Linesman leading to a try in their semi against the French which justifiably led to much sqawking and squealing. Thing is SAFFAS are quite forthright in their condemnation of incompetents regardless of the nationality including our own so I cannot help but be disgusted with the way Kiwis defend their own in the midst of overwhelming evidence which proves Lawrence is plain incompetent. The fact that he's been removed from the Test panel makes no impression on them. If bad refereeing was an indictable offence then Bryce Lawerence would be up for first degree homicide, found guilty in an open court, and  excecuted in front of a firing squad.

Naturally enough South Africans just like Kiwis would go into mourning....for different reasons of course....we'd mourn the loss of the odd bullet that missed it's target.

Denny the kiwis have glass jaws so go easy. Will sitting bull ever recover!!

Sensitivity is key at times like this!  Allow them time to recover from black Saturday 

Wonder where Moz is?

probably bored shitless with some of the crap that's spewed on here....

Is this some type of a joke, BL is a what's wrong with rugby...he is a little officious man that has a Napoleon complex...but unlike Bonaparte has got there because of curried friends...I do not know if he has any character or integrity at all...more concerned with his peers than giving the right results. Unlike Napoleon he has no sense of fair play...has no skill or direction to direct a game but lets loose his frustrations to those who have greater attributes than he.

Come on the kiwis are not serious they are just reving you guys up!

Take it from a master! Hehehehehe

Wow! Talk about getting trolled hard!! Some of you took the easy bait as well. Tisk tisk......

 Folks...remember when dealing with New Zealanders you always have to make major consessions.

Unfortunte bunch.

 Bit like your spelling ability then eh Arse King ?

Yep and the Quaalude is the best NZ born rugby player ....both statements were undoubtedly proven at the RWC.

 This is a joke. Noone can think licey is a good ref.

It is time to blow the whistle on Bryce    

Mark Reason

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jonathan buddington

7 days ago

Its the reffing of the scrum which is a mess. Lets get this sorted. Rugby union fans want a fair contest between the 2 hookers, between the 2 front rows, between the 2 front 5`s. The coaching of forward packs is the best its ever been, why not help the players IRB?

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Don Compton

7 days ago

There will never be a fair contest between the hookers, as long as the scrum half is allowed to put the ball in skewed. I get the impression the powers that be are trying to kill the scrum. its such a farce at the moment, how long before we go to Rugby League styled scrums??? The future is pretty bleak.

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James Marshall

7 days ago

Yes Lawrence is a shocking ref. Yes it’s crazy the Super 15 doesn’t have neutral refs – but it’s getting really boring reading articles from Reason slagging off Kiwi refs when he is the same guy happy to turn a blind eye to the career of Wayne Barnes. His reward for unduly influencing World Cup matches and getting kicked off the elite panel was the chance to ruin a Heineken Cup semi-final. There is no basis for his claim either that the SH has unduly influenced the IRB in regards to the laws.

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Rugbyfish

7 days ago

I agree that the IRB-referee-selection process is at times hard to understand but that is no excuse for the sort of disrespect shown by the players, fans and the media. Bryce Lawrence has received death threats and has said he isn’t sure if it’s safe for him to ref in SA. That is outrageous! There will always be bad refs but it’s part of rugby to respect them anyway. Mark Reason should be ashamed of himself for putting what is partly deserved criticism into the hate-column above.

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John Comyn

7 days ago

It’s refreshing to see a journo from the other hemisphere pinging Mr Lawrence. As SAfricans we can’t say a word without being seen as sour grapes. To be honest he was poor pre RWC and on occasion his blunders won us games. I don’t think he’s bias – he’s just incompetent. Yes the scrums are a mess and difficult to manage but as captains keep saying; “all we want is consistency”. It’s become a cliché.

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Philip Bailey

7 days ago

@Rugby Fish. I couldn’t agree with you more.

This article vitriolic in its abuse. Where is the dignity? A few days ago there was a blog post on this site about the values of rugby and all that it entails. It appears that one of your writers doesn’t adhere to those same rules.

Yes Lawrence may make some mistakes…and some of them have been quite high profile. Lambasting him and death threats are not warranted though. Anyone who thinks it is shouldn’t be involved in the game.

The IRB simply need to sort the scrum out/ breakdown out. Then the officiating would be so difficult. Either that or add coping mechanisms for the refs. It’s a very tough job and they don’t get the praise they deserve when they make the right calls.

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Keith WIlkins

7 days ago

As for the scrum the irb are driving good hookers out of the game,as all that pro teams want now is hookers who are as big as the props to just add wieght to the scrum with no need to hook the ball as it gets put into the scrum illegally.Why is this allowed to happen,young boys learn this specialist position,only to be told later on that they are no longer needed.

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Graeme Uden

6 days ago

Mr Reason has made a fair point about the quality of Bryce Lawrence’s reffing, but it’s not exactly inspired journalism. The ‘some one who was an international prop told me….’ is a bloody weak way to cite a source. Who was it and what did they say? I’m honestly interested to hear who he was and what he said – getting input like, that from a former international, would be great! But for all we know you might have over heard him grumbling in the urinals. You need to work on your whinging skills.

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Rugby Sense

6 days ago

Bit harsh Mark Reason – not sure why it’s so personal for you, take some emotion out of it. And when quoting – give us names and why they actually said, we all know rugby internationals

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ronald adendorf

6 days ago

Ask yourself that question what where sanzar doing when they appointed Wayne barnes cost us the world cup with blatantly forward past!and he is still reffing!There will always b bad refs.deal with it and move on!

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gareth streeter

6 days ago

I’m amazed as a welsh man who loathed mark reason’s dad that an englishman can make such good sense. Bryce Lawrence ruined the SA Australia game at the world cup, Australia should have been pinged off the park for not releasing,, off feet at the breakdown., He was biased and inconsistent, but I believe that the law makers have the laws its the referee makers who are screwing up. Wayne Barnes is a good ref. He is consistent and fair. He made a mistake in NZ game(why call them the Blacks!) but NZ had already benefitted in a number of games from forward passes. He is trying to make a hard game to ref as fair as possible. I never feel that about BL. He is trying to please his masters. He is as other correspondents say guessing.at the scrums and doesn’t understand what is or not allowed at the breakdown maybe caused by the interpretations statements that are put out by the organisers of refs. I know Paddy has now got the chop but he ruined the game for millions and its great to see him go!

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william bishop

6 days ago

@james marshall. There certainly is a basis for the notion that the Aussies and Kiwis have influenced the lawmakers in their favour. Just look at what happened to South Africa after they won the 2007 world cup. They were clearly the best side in the world at NT level, their super rugby teams were dominant and there’d just been the first all south african final between the Bulls and the Sharks.. So what happens? Some clever revisions to the touch-kicking laws that took away their advantage over NZ and Aussie teams at a stroke! All apparently in the interests of a faster more entertaining game of course – and just incidentally giving the AB’s and Wallabies a big leg up.

Refereeing was a huge issue at the World Cup. The interesting thing about Lawrence is that his stats showed he refereed earlier games at the group stage far more stringently, particularly at the breakdown. Then, in the Aus-SA quarter-final he allowed a free-for-all that suited David Pocock very nicely, thank you very much!

Most crucial games at the World Cup were decided by less than one score. If NZ had been reffed by virtually any NH ref in the final, they would probably have lost it. But they got Craig Joubert, and good luck to them.

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Ross Tuck

6 days ago

Yes, one cannot personally attack Lawrence but being a true blue Kiwi I shudder when he has the whistle. Sadly he has always been out of his depth and if I for one get sick of Reason blasting the Kiwis but on the issue at hand Lyndon Bray should just put his hand up and put Lawrence out to pasture. Bring on a young guy who is not afraid to let the game run and no be the centre of attention as Lawrence wants to be. On Sunday I cringed when really the Reds were the better team on the day but alas we have been on the wrong end of the whistle especially the English refs and Wayne Barnes is not up to the Southern game. Anyway that is another issue but something has to be done about Lawrence and his performances. If this was business you would be damned well sacked!!!!

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Ross Tuck

6 days ago

While I am at it let’s get real about the game. The IRB really have no idea about getting the scrum right. Why can’t any prop put his hand on the ground (except to hinder the ball being put in) to stabalize the scrum? Lets get the ball in and make it a fair contest for both packs. Who the hell cares if all props ground their hand to steady the scrum? I am one of millions I presume who think like me. What a game it would be and what a relishing thought to see both packs doing their level best as the scrum would be stabalized ensuring a much fairer contest. I would like to get thoughts from the top scrummagers in the world as I know full well there would be one put in and one rake and no bloody penalties. Let us push for stabilizing the scrum and let us get the game flowing.

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Nick Millard

6 days ago

I have a Deja vu feeling reading this article….without jumping on the bandwagon anyone who has watched a game ref’d by Bryce has to agree consistency is lacking. If he was a professional rugby player he’d spend his time on the bench making cameo appearance. Refs are human and make mistakes, like most players, I’d be in favour of seeing a transparent approach to deciding on who is ref’ing games putting form ahead of experience. That and sharpening up the rule book so interpretation doesn’t have the same vagueness as a religious text.

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Ross Tuck

6 days ago

Thanks for the comment Nick. It has been long overdue that the decision makers in the Ref circles of the IRB do not want to see the game flow. Too many games are decided on the penalty and when You see Joubert with the whistle it is a joy to at least be able to watch the game flow if the players want it. That is why in my last blog about the hands on the ground. That would take the whistle out of the equation and when you come to think about it a wee bit, Lawrence would have had a much better game; would he not?!!!!!!! When it all comes down to it, the boys at the top never listen to the ex players who are indeed wonderful fans!!

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Arne Zielinski

6 days ago

It´s not a personal issues at all. As some others have pointed out above: The ruling of certain areas is a big mess. The breakdown has become a lottery at times along with some sneaky play (i.e. a player goes to ground straight forward and tries to squirt out the ball between his legs, a clever defender just falls on the attacker´s back and locks the ball under the stomach of the player on the ground, this is always rules “not realeasing the ball”, but how on earth you can realease the ball in that situation?) Another area is the scrum. Lately I watched some super rugby games from 05 and 06, the scrum were no problem at all: crouch, pause, engage, ball in, ball out, end of story. Nowadays the scrums are a sort of orchestrated balancing act and the main focus seems to be a 10 seconds stable scrum no matter what happens to the ball. So often we see a reset of the scrum although the no.8 cold easily pick the ball up and play on. This is a total mess and you cannot blame the players to play the ref and you cannot blame the ref neither. Justin Marshall made a pinpoint comment in the saders-reds game, saying: “Oh, sure that was law 25 article 3 clause 40, section 5.” and that´s the point. A game of rugby should not be rocket science, it should be a fair contest to both sides (attacking and defending) and with clear rules, the less room to interpretation of the laws the less refs come into the center of attention.

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Bluem

5 days ago

Fans, coaches, players all want consistency.

Perhaps if the laws were actually applied correctly then we wouldn’t have such a mess at the breakdowns, scrums or even line-outs.

Breakdown: The reason there is so much inconsistency between refs and even during the same game is because the IRB don’t instruct them to stick to the basics of the rules. It’s actually very easy – the players being tackled should immediately release the ball but refs allow players to keep their hand/s on top of the ball making it hard for an opposing player on his feet to play it. So instead of exterminating this farce the IRB just keeps applying Band-Aids (interpretations) that’s open to refs. I could go on and get even more technical but I think you get the idea.

Scrums: Let the front rows first bind, then the second row and so forth to eliminate the so-called ‘hit’. This will prevent injuries as well as allow teams with the ‘real’ superior scrumming technique to come to the fore. Make sure the ball is put in straight to make it a fair contest. Another thing, allow props, if necessary, to steady the scrum putting their hands down BEFORE the ball is in and the push begins, afterwards penalize it. Clarifying this will eliminate the inconsistency between refs allowing or penalizing it.

Line-outs: Regarding straight throws and competing. If the defending team doesn’t compete at the line-out don’t stop play because the ball is not straight because it had no bearing (effect) denying the defending team. Thus will ensure that defending teams compete (jump) more often.

I know some will harp on the fact that I want straight put-ins into the scrum but suggest this, but need I remind everyone that Rugby is about positive play, thus rules are only there to be applied IF the ref deems a team playing ((or act was) negative. Example: A ref should only stop or penalize a team for going off their feet at a ruck if it’s deemed negative play depending on whether they tried to secure (seal off) the ball or open up the ball to be played.

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Ross Tuck

5 days ago

Hurray…..at least I have someone from the Rugby site agree with me!!!!!! Yes, let the props put their hands down to steady the scrum and I like 1,000’s want this. Being an ex hooker I did not mind the ball coming in a bit on our side but in all reality if the refs made an issue of it for a while the 9’s would not cheat and it is blatant by every 9 in the world and that goes down to the kids!!! We may as well play like the league boys and that is a real shudder as that is a joke but never go there. Anyway just as long as Lawrence is on the touch this weekend or going on holiday would be nice. Happy Super 15 this weekend Guys and may the Chiefs do the biz!!!!

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S Spooony

4 days ago

If we started to listen to arm chair referees there would not be one referee left. We point out the decisions which was wrong in our view but correct according to the law. The mistakes we do miss. I think we should stop listening to commentators who help to spread the wrong views of the laws to the public. Bruce decisions in the Reds/ Crusaders game was spot on. If any disagree point them out and be prove wrong. Even the Jonker/AR forward pass call which looked clear cut on tv was not as clear cut and there is evidence to prove it. Players should stop blaming the referees for their bad performances and losses. You cheat you get penalized. Simple

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S Spooony

4 days ago

As for Gill getting penalized.

15.4 THE TACKLER (a) When a player tackles an opponent and they both go to ground, the tackler must immediately release the tackled player. Sanction: Penalty kick (b) The tackler must immediately get up or move away from the tackled player and from the ball at once. Sanction: Penalty kick © The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then may play the ball from any direction. Sanction: Penalty kick

Gill did not release the player at all nor did he give him a chance to place the ball. Yet the arm chair referees think he just needs to be on his feet then he can play the ball. Which is wrong. So Gill was penalized according to the law. Maybe its general public that must start learning the laws not Bryce.

Hand on the ground? Was the ball in the scrum when it happened? I can show you where the Reds did the same and were not pinged for it. Reason? The ball was still in the scrum halfs hands.

20.7 WHEN THE SCRUM BEGINS (a) Play in the scrum begins when the ball leaves the hands of the scrum half. (b) If the scrum half throws in the ball and it comes out at either end of the tunnel, the ball must be thrown in again unless a free kick or penalty has been awarded. © If the ball is not played by a front row player, and it goes straight through the tunnel and comes out behind the foot of a far prop without being touched, the scrum half must throw it in again

Cmon people is it that difficult to go download the lawbook and look in it? Its free over the IRB site

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S Spooony

4 days ago

@Bluem Why take away the hit? By your suggestion you are creating a slingslot. You do know what a slingslot is do you? That technique the no. 8 use to ignite it which is illegal. Then they got so clever when the referee spots them telling them they can not hear the call. A front rower putting his hand down is because he want to get a advantage plain and simple.

Another clever trick is they walk around the loosehead causing him to pop up trying to protect his ribs. Referees have been coached by front rowers these days and they are penalizing the cause and not the NOT the symptom. The public sees the symptom and thinks that is the offense.

It is simple basically. The ball-feeding team wants a stable scrum, the defenders want to create an unstable scrum and SPOIL. They been changing the laws because the players keep messing up. Then they find a new way to do it and its a never ending cycle. Now change the one part of rugby that unique to it and can give teams a ascendancy. You take away the one thing that some teams structure their play on. Like Argentina example structure their play on set plays. It got to stop somewhere and look at the cause (the players) and not the symptom (the referee).