Bulking up and repositioning....two dead ends

There is a reason certain physical types have emerged in rugby after 100 years. You need a high leaping five lock to seal off the middle to back of the lineout.....so no Hasbeen you can't have Bakkies and Etzebeth. You need at least one mobile loosie to put pressure on opposing backs and to help protect the ball out wide. You need one fast centre to have the pace to defend outside.

Come RWC time or in a big TN we are always trying to put locks among the loosies. They just end up getting burned. ...like Carlos Spencer burned Danie Rossouw in 2003. We try to get more mobile by playing Smit as a prop and get creamed. We play, horror of horrors, Braam van Straaden at inside centre to provide another boot.

Then there are the position changes. Pienaar at 10....failure. Smit at prop....failure. JP at centre....failure. Terblanche at centre....failure. Adi at 12....failure. Greef at 10.....failure. CJ at loosehead....failure. Spies at eighthman....failure (yep he changed too late, he is not a natural forward).

Unless players have played two positions regularly....trying them at a totally new position as senior players simply flops. So does bulking up.

Moz - I was a bit surprised about the lack of comments on bulking up.   There is no doubt that present training scheduules require a major amount of gym work.   That adds to the muscular development of players.   However, there could also be a negative.   Players become slower with some forms of musculsr development - typical example - Alberts.

I agree with you about playing people out of position - it normally does not work - especially like in the case of Ruan Pienaar he was the Shark scrum half and the Springbok flyhalf.   That could account for a lot.  By the way I rate Pienaar as a player highly.   That  could also be the case of Pietersen - thrust into a number 13 Jersey - and found wanting.    Should never have been moved.   There aree lots of examples - even more than you have mentioned.

Mike I was a bit unclear. I meant bulking up by playing bigger players versus smaller players....particularly at loosie.

But I agree our players lose pace quickly when they go on these massive body building programmes. Monty, Habana and Fury are all good examples. Fury even claimed he got his pace back as he debulked, but I couldn't see any sign of it.

Watch Mvovo. He is the next guy who is going to be told he isn't quite strong enough. Eighteen months from now, I bet he has put on another 5 kgs and lost his only weapon, pace.

Dr Moz some errors here needing correcting. I do not see anyone playing a 107 kg string wannabee backline player at lock. Name me a lock in the tri nations or even super 15 under 110 kg.  wee matfield has thankfully retired.

Proof as to how well Etzebeth and Bakkies would have done is how well Rossouw and Bakkies looked at lock. Only for the mindless to keep fouling things up by bring back wee matfield. Etzebeth and Bakkies are both skilled enough to take their ball in the lineouts. Thereafter they are one heck of a force. Pick the right forwards and by 60 minutes the opposition will be on their knees. No Moz I insist on having Etzebeth and one as close to Bakkies as we can find. Nothing else will do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have suffered a decade of matfield so please Meyer on my knees with tears flowing I ask - no more show pomies!!!!

All sides have bulked up its part of realising what needs to be done. Hence the paupacity of small backs. Loosies weighing in at 110 kg are common place.

Bigger doesn't mean slower. Take Paul Jordan (ex grey College Bloem) - he is only 20 and weighs in at 94 kg. In a couple of years that will naturally progress to at least 97 kg.  A Bok in the making - better prospect than Taute at center I am thinking. Brilliant player but its still very early days. Has he the hardness required to play at this level. No indication yet he hasn't - we shall see.

JP has not played a test at center so how has he failed? Moz JP is too slow for an attacking wing - his defence is good. He would make a fine center option even at 12. Nice step  - can break a line, strong etc.

When  you see movo stepping like he does you also woder how he would go at center. Where can we get best value from these youngsters - Frans, JP, Hougaard, Lambie, Goosen, Taute, Jordan, Mvovo, JJ, Van Zyl etc. Someone needs to be thinking ahead and planning right now. One heck of a backline is possible in the near future IFwe get it right.

You need pace, skill/brains, courage, and power to compete with the best the world has to offer.

The Stormers with big men like Burger, Vermulen and Louw were the best defensive outfit in the Super 15 comp. But I also like one guy who is particualrly mobile but not a pushover. Coetzee fits that bill and to me is  natural number 8. Faster loosies also help with your attacking prospects so yes a faster guy is nice to have and Coetzee and Stander and if he grows a bit maybe Kolisi - this boy has talent but is currently is a bit of a lightweight for tes tlevel intensity. He should get stronger in a few seasons.

If your pack is munching up the other side the rest becomes much easier. What is very good is that there is a lot of competition for places right now. If Cheetahs had not lost so many games by a few points they might havce made the top 6  - we have 4 sides who are competitive. Thats about the best its ever been. Meyer should be licking his chops!!  he has youth and experience. A little problem now re loosies but not as great as some folk think Bokwise.

Meyer just needs some time to get it all together and hopefully he will. He did it for thebulle taking them from being the worst supercomp sideworst to being a good side. (lets not praise the bulle too much you know their ego problems- hehehehehehe)

Go Bokke make this a golden period!!!!

JP failed at the Sharks.....just read his defensive stats if you don't believe that Hasbeen. C'mon now, some common sense please, if he was on the cusp of being an international success at 13, would the Sharks have taken the risk on an unproven 20 year old? JP doesn't have a centre's software.....just like Pienaar never had a flyhalf's software. Playing a position is first of all in the head.

Well for a start you have some incorrect points here:

Pienaar was not a failure at 10, JP was not a failure at 13, Adi was a failure throughout and Spies is certainly no failure at 8 - best SA 8 on display this weekend by some distance.

I give you Terblanche, CJ, Greef and Smit as failures in those positions

I think Daniels was the best 8th man on display....and who else was there? The totally useless ball spiller Strauss? Or the Canadian import. Come to think of it there was the Cheetahs chappie van der Walt, yep he was better than Spies as well.

You certainly did not watch the Bulls game then did you? Or let me guess you could not possibly bring yourself to admitting Spies had a good game could you?

At least our coach will select Spies as our 8, much like he will include the likes of Taute, Goosen and co ahead of deadwood like Morne and Jean.

Chances are he might start with the deadwood, but losses to England and in the Tri will see him discarding the conservative approach and selecting the best players at our disposal.

Look no further than 15.Lambie 14. JP 13. Taute 12. Frans 11. Mvovo 10. Goosen 9. Hougaard 1. Beast 2. Bismark 3. Jannie 4. Etzebeth 5. Bekker 6. Brussouw 7. Elstadt/Coetzee 8. Spies.......its simple really

Look no further than Goosen? Man dontcha get it....the kid is out for the year. He may play a CC game or two at the end of the season, but basically his 2012 is toast. He is a great prospect, but for 2013 and a lot can happen before then.

As for your team, I agree he will choose Spies....I wouldn't. But I'd bet you your mud hut in Norwich that he picks Morne and Jean.

Norwich??????

Yes he will pick Morne and maybe Jean, but like I said he will soon realize how bog ordinary they are when we lose to England and in the Tri, he will see the light and discard the deadwood.

Goosen is out for 4 months, one month has passed already........by end of year tour he will be our Bok 10. Jean will be discarded during the Tri

So you are predicting a loss to England.....fine....but don't deny this when it comes up after the Boks wipe the Poms off the planet, you turncoat.

 Look here you stupid idiot, I am predicting a loss to England if Meyer chooses the conservative route, which by all accounts is what he will do. How is that being a turncoat you stupid twat?

Conservative route equals never beens or hasbeens like Matfield, Schalk, du Preez, Morne, Jean and Habana being selected by Meyer, get it?

Okay I get it .....you are saying if we choose Morne, Habana and Jean(the others except for du Preez aren't available) we will lose to England. I sense you backpeddling ....are you willing to stand behind your statement blow hard?

 Yes, we will lose to England if we play Morne at 10, Jean at 13, du Preez at 9 and Matfield has not made himself unavailable, add Schalk to that equation. Meyer spoke of sticking with the tried and tested, if this is the case we will lose to England.

Our Bok side was done with these players in it. If Meyer does not move on we will continue to lose until he wakes up to the fact that Jean, Matfield, du Preez and Habana are done and that Morne sells us short. A conservative selection will see us lose to a young England side that has taken the steps Meyer needs to take with the Boks

A simple yes or no will suffice. If we play Jean, Morne and Habana you say we will lose to England....yes or no.

 No, for those are not all the names mentioned as possible comeback kids..........but if it is just Morne, Jean and Habana, our backline will be average and we will struggle to win, so I might be inclined to actually say yes

I'll take that as a yes.....remember this conversation.

Yep, thats cool. If Meyer goes conservative we are stuffed. This Pom side is not bad at all. Their weakness are the SA'ns in Barritt at centre and Botha at lock, but both are solid not special along with their other lock.

But the rest of the side is good - Foden, Ashton, Tuilangi, Farrell, Youngs, Corbiesero, Hartley, Cole, Robshaw, Haskell and Morgan are pretty handy.

Damn good frontrow, Morgan at 8 is huge and hard to stop, Farrell gives them direction at 10, Tuilangi at 110kgs is a real handful at centre and in Foden and Ashton at the back, they have two of the top end of the art.

Meyer will go conservative, realise his mistakes and discard the deadwood in Jean, Morne and Habana

When Habana arrived on the scene he was'nt nearly as buff as he is now. As his muscles grew over the years, his magic slowly vanished!

Disagree, Habana had to muscle up in order to stay in the mix.......he has lost clout with age, it happens

Saff, the first 3 years of his carreer were when Habana was untouchable as a winger, ever since then he has been but a shadow of his former self. He was his absolute best during the 2007 year, but after that he beefed up and never played the same again. At the moment age may be starting to play a role in his abilities, but in 2008,'09,'10,'11 he was still young enough to play at his best and not be hampered by age. Unless of course you are saying that players reach their best before date by the age of 25 (his age in 2008). Nope, I don't buy the age argument.

Many backs burst onto the scene and then fade, they get tightly marked, injuries slow them down. Look at Chris Ashton and Foden of England, Drew Mitchell and Ashley Cooper of Oz, Sonny Bill and the host of Kiwi wings that burst onto the scene

I still don't agree bud, a great player is a great player and will make space for himself, else how would any back become great? Shane Williams, Rokokoko, Howlet, Jason Robinson, Campese etc were always a threat, even as they got older. 29 or Maybe 30 they start to lose pace, but before that it is just down to form, talent and conditioning.