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FORUM / RUGBY /  Bulle to flirt with attacking rugby

Bulle to flirt with attacking rugby

Started by Beeno125 REPLIES294 VIEWS· 27 Nov 2014, 22:03
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Nov 2014, 22:03
#1
27 Nov 2014, 22:03#1

Ex Superpsort


For long the bastion of a structured approach to rugby, the Blue Bulls are flirting with an attacking mindset.

Bulls captain Pierre Spies suggested as much at the launch of their latest jersey for the Super Rugby season on Thursday.

"You want to create an attacking mindset within the players, and in a lot of ways the guys have felt restricted and also bound themselves to the plan that was on the table," Spies said in Pretoria.(Aligns with what I was saying about strategy and skills - Beeno spot on once again!)

"That is never how it should have been, the plan is to create an environment where we can go out and play rugby.

"The big thing is to cultivate and attacking mindset and an enjoyment of the game."

The Bulls have been the pace-setting South African team in the previous decade where they won an unprecedented three Super Rugby titles.

Key to their success was what Bulls coach Frans Ludeke refers to as a kick and suffocate game.

Ludeke said on Wednesday that the side would be looking to employ a more balanced approach.(they are even using Beeno terminology!)

He said emphasis would be placed on improving the players' skill-set while they needed more players on their feet to give them attacking options.

"If we are carrying extra weight it'll slow the game down and the way want to play," Spies said.

"So we want to put some speed on the ball, we want a lot more of a running game, we want to put a lot more running metres on our legs.

This approach would require a greater level of fitness and the Bulls had already started to with their pre-season training to get the squad up to standard.

"This is a vital stage of our training because you really build your fitness base," Spies said.

"Because Super Rugby is going straight through next year we will not have that break.

"You want to give yourself the best start possible, so if you want to be the best you have to be the fittest."

Spies had been sidelined during the 2014 season after he injured his biceps after only featuring in the first Super Rugby match against the Sharks back in February.

The Springbok eighthman was confident that he would be fully fit for the start of next year's competition and he would once again captain the side.

"It's been a long year, so in many ways I am excited about the year ahead and I am slowly fazing myself back in," Spies said.

"It is obviously going to take some time to find my feet but I am really excited and I am looking forward to a great year with the Bulls.

"I don't want to rush it with the risk of getting injured again but at this stage the plan is to be back by the first Super Rugby game."


BI
biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
27 Nov 2014, 22:07
#2
27 Nov 2014, 22:07#2

I would be pleasantly surprised if they did embrace an attacking game, but attack means shifting the point of attack to avoid predictability.


Not sure they have the skills for that in their coaching staff.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Nov 2014, 22:15
#3
27 Nov 2014, 22:15#3
 Beeno
And Pigs can fly - the Bulls would first have to get rid of the era they embreaced all out - namely the kick and chase game characterized by Morne  Steyn and taken backwards by Morne Steyn.  
If indeed they can get away from that psyxhological hindrance - they would eb a much more difficult team to contend with.   I think the chances of it happening is at this stage about 5% - so lets wait and see what ahppens.  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2014, 06:13
#4
29 Nov 2014, 06:13#4
Reading all this one would swear the Bools hadn't won the Super 15 three times. Nor would one believe that all the other teams combined haven't won it once. But still you have guys telling you with a straight face the Bools don't have the  skills. The real lack of  skills I see is in the reasoning ability of the average South African rugby fan, who apparently lives in some kind of parallel universe.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Nov 2014, 06:36
#5
29 Nov 2014, 06:36#5
The Bulls idea of the running game is to run the length of the field.....without the ball.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Nov 2014, 06:48
#6
29 Nov 2014, 06:48#6
 I think they can do it and will. We have seen the bulle play some nice attacking rugby at times. They are clearly realising a change is necessary. 
This is great as WP have made the chanage and the Sharks will doubtless do so as well. Sharks in any event were mor e balanced.
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Nov 2014, 06:54
#7
29 Nov 2014, 06:54#7
Talk is cheap. What about improving basic skills? South African players are miles behind the Kiwis a nd Ozzies in that department. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Nov 2014, 07:29
#8
29 Nov 2014, 07:29#8
 Nonsense Denny you are exagerating matters Look at the difference in Hougaard when the muzzle came off.Also look how we beat both OZ and nz in south Africa. Look at the 3 tries scored against Oz in the last 10 minutes or so.
As I pointed out to Biltong Bek dont confuse negative strategy with skills. Negative strategy makes a side look like they have no skills.
I also note the wee abs are looking less threatening in the backs.Perhaps because of the pap pack as well! Bwahahahahahahaha
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 08:31
#9
29 Nov 2014, 08:31#9
 Mozart is omto "the average South African rugby fan, who apparently lives in some kind of parallel universe" -  but then what ca one expect frm a person who lives in cloud cucckoo and?
The Bulls won the  Super  Rugby with a specific st yle of rugby - basically playing a game that went down aftr multiple ule changes.  They have been less effecive recently - because their basic game plan hss been worked out and effeitely countered by opposing teams.
This game plan was always relayively simple.   The first option was always to kick for territory - kick th ball downfield andhope th opposition will make a mistake or that by some miracle  you may win the ball back on ensureing line-outs.  The lternative ws for the inside center to run straight at the first defender and effectively crshballled.
The countmeasures were easy - don't worry about th flyhalf - he will never a tatck the gain line - defend against the kciked ball by dropping the win gs and opposition flyhalf back to cover the kicked balls - and if the ball is passed make sure that at least the loosies and the inside center concentrate on the unfortunate recipoient of the pass.
Another negative of the strategy was that backline coaching was neglected and the image was created that SA backline players lacks ball skills and cannot play attacking backline rugby.
That was the startegy carried nto the Boks also - and Me yer followed that line faithfully - until he waked up to the fact that it was countr-productive.
Th above is not "living in another universe" - it  is factual.   As long as Naas was around it worked out for the Bulls and even SA - because kicking was much more efaccru rate and effective then it turned out to be after 2010.    The accurcy of kicking and usage of kicking for an attack strategy - spiralled down into an abyss.   This was mainly due to poor play by Morne Steyn - whose strategic kicking at one stage was described by commentators as BS.
 However, what went missing on the people of cloud cucckoo land andin Pretoria was tha all teams - also the NH teams - changed their playing startegy and is now not playing Bulls type of rubty anymore.   Not that kicking is forbidden - but kicking must be part of a coomprehensive staegy tpo ensure maximum banefit to eb derived by a team.  For that kicks must be precise and purposeful  - not the type of kick and hope it works out attitude that became so much part of Bulls rugby and consequently SA Rugby.
It is clear - and that to his credit that Meyer woke up to the fact that that the style of rugby has serious limitations and that the tams who use it ultimately fail in Super 15 and on test level.   Typical examples of this flaw became clear in 2012 when the Stormers truiedit and in 2014 when the Shark used it - and both teams failed badly in the semi-finls of Super 15.  
be it as it may - the fact is that in  the process the backline play became a srategy that  had serious implications for teams practiising it.   One of the worst ones were to actually coach backline players out of ability to practice ball skills and strategic skills.   You got the anomomaly that forwards became backline attacking coaches and the idea of running lines and timing of passes became in praactise  non-existent in SA teams.  
As I said Meyer realized that like teams world wide the strategy of playing 10/11 men rugby has a  dead end and he asked the SA Franchise coiaches to change the strategy and start coaching a different playing style - so that he can hacve better-skilled players to select the Springbok backline from.   Th Sharks under White refused to even comment on it - and it was part of the reason why  White was shown the door by the Sharks management - make no mistake - if he did not resign - he would have been fired.   I think that Ludeke has now relaized he ois ont eh way down a dead end street - and this article is a response before he also meet th Jake White fate.
 So what is going to happen in 2015 to the Bulls.   The Morne Steyn era wpould finally be disposed of - and I sforsee a  completely different flyhalf game plan from Pollard - who has a much more natural ability in reading games and decsionmaking.   That in itself  will lead to better usage of the abll by the outsie backs and complementing abckline play - by bringing in better loosies and even a hooker like Strauss in the process.   I think the days of blind and mindless play by loosies - inacpable of passing balls are gone.   
The Bulls has the new loosies in Arno Botha and Labuschagne to make it work - one can only hope that Botha stay injury-free in future.   If they could just get over the Tight 4 situation they have at presnet and get a better Tight 5 combination playing - the world woukld be a far better place than it is at present for them.   
If what Ludeke now says is put in place and exctuted  - t Bulls will be a force to reckon with in Super 15 next year.   I can see players like Sefonetin adn even JJ comeing out looking mcuh better that they looked thus far.   
 Finally - I think the days of playing players like Francois Steyn in criciical positions is dead as well.  The Sharks called up a NZ referee to drilll backline play into their players and since the arrival of Smal - WP has changed their own style drastically.   So the various franchises would move to a more comprehensive and clinical backline strategy - that would ebnefit SA rugby as a whole.   
Mozart is correct he is in a differnet universe at present - but one can only hope he comes back to earth soon.
    
 
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Nov 2014, 09:04
#10
29 Nov 2014, 09:04#10
Basic skills are taught at school level not at S15  level...what's wrong with you lot?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 09:07
#11
29 Nov 2014, 09:07#11
 Deny
You are 100% correct - but whatever the kids are doing at school level has been coached out of them by certain franchise coaches in SA.   The Bulls were particularly guilty of that.   A skilled youngster had as much chance of surviing in a backline position - as a snowball had in hell.  
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Nov 2014, 09:11
#12
29 Nov 2014, 09:11#12
Mate, if skill presented itself as a juicy fat doos, so called South African "coaches" would run for their lives. 
ST
stu5Rookie70 posts
29 Nov 2014, 09:34
#13
29 Nov 2014, 09:34#13
 Looking at the signings they've made and the players they already have, I tip the Bulls to top the SA conference next year.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 09:41
#14
29 Nov 2014, 09:41#14
 Stu5
I have a feeling that it would ahppen - but they may also top the overall log position.   
ST
stu5Rookie70 posts
29 Nov 2014, 09:45
#15
29 Nov 2014, 09:45#15
 Not too sure about topping the overall log.....Im not convinced the SA teams have what it takes to win   it next year,
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Nov 2014, 09:48
#16
29 Nov 2014, 09:48#16

 "...also top the overall log position."



Are you drunk?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 11:23
#17
29 Nov 2014, 11:23#17
Denny
 We will see.  We will see.  I rate their new signings very highly - Only a pity about Slapgat Matfield - he weakens them.  
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
29 Nov 2014, 11:35
#18
29 Nov 2014, 11:35#18

Ag sjampies...what's to see? It's the same story every year, you must be blind.

S15 is made for running rugby i.e it's made for Ozzie and Kiwi teams whereby teams are rewarded for scoring tries. To do that there has to be a culture of running rugby and from ball in hand comes tries.

Kiwi and Ozzie players grow up with that culture.


So mate, you keep looking and you keep hoping.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Nov 2014, 11:49
#19
29 Nov 2014, 11:49#19
 Great post Mike and spot on. School boy rugbuy shows amazing skills. Amazing because watching some senior sides play you would not expect the high level of skills.
I agree  that if pap matfiled departs they could have agood season. Top six finish.
But let hold our fire. Who else wiill depart etc. Perhaps because it RWC year the guys will saty at home.
With the Bulle embracing a more normal balanced Bok type game, and the WP , Lions, Cheetas already there one suspects the Sharks will also sharpen their attack and be less negative.
Bulle should try jaque Du Plessi at lock with Flip. They would then have an international class tight five. Labuschagne, Arno and another would complete a fromidable pack. Some nice backs as well.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 12:14
#20
29 Nov 2014, 12:14#20
 Beeno
I think the ebs thing the Bulls did was to get Strauss and Labuscahgne into their team.   Alsoo Arno Botha will be back.
The beauty of Labuschagne and Strauss is the way they become part of backline attacking move ad does not die with the ball - they have good ball skills.  Arno Botha showed similar tendencies.   The other part is the way Labuschagne protect and recover balls at breakdowns - a skill absent in respect of most loosies -eg Willem Alberts..
I would say that the Blls should play du Plessis at lock - together with Flippie and forget about Slapgat.   That would be the way to go.    If flippie is not available yet they shoud play Nicholaas Janse van Rensburg in the lock position - away with Slapgat.
Acombination of Du Plessis, Flippie/Van Rensburg, Botha and Labuschagne would result in the Bulls having the upper hand in line-outs against most teams in any event.
DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:03
#21
29 Nov 2014, 13:03#21
The Bulls have been, over the course of the last 10 years the most well balanced of all the South African franchises. The weakest attacking teams always the Stormers and Sharks though the Lions did join them after the sacking of Eloff. Last year however, was very difficult for them, they had no quality at centre or fullback. But the game management of Morné was also a big loss. It was impressive what they did the season before, but it's clear now that they do not possess a centre pairing capable of creating any movement or space. Kirchner was very important carrying the ball for them, creating many assists. They just don't have those hard runners who can suck in the defence. They stand too deep, out of alignment and come onto the ball with no pace. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:25
#22
29 Nov 2014, 13:25#22
Letsal
Let me be quite brutal - the Bulls were the team for years with the worst bckline try scoring record in Super 15 and CC - they had a totally unbalanced backline who was on the whole mostly malfunctioning.  Morne was a large part of that malfunctioning.   
There standard play was kicking by Morne and - because he was no threat the defense did not target him - but the recipient of the ball in case he passed the ball.   The pass recipient could do nothing with the ball and the next ruck ensued after he was tackled. 
Essentiallythey had good centers - but never used them properly.
There is only one way they can go with their backline - and that is up - a blessing because Morne is not there to sabotage it anymore and Kirchner is tnot there either.   The only handicap I am afrais of is Matfield moonlighting in the backline.   
TT
The_TruthClub Pro471 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:31
#23
29 Nov 2014, 13:31#23
 Absolute bullshit. Go look up the real stats.

DE
DezertFoxPro2,288 posts
29 Nov 2014, 13:46
#24
29 Nov 2014, 13:46#24
Kirchner annually ranked among the top players for assists. Also, Morné kicked a little over 50% of the ball. You don't like these pesky stats do you? They always prove you are a liar. Morné's distribution and option taking are still the best of all our 10s. A 10 who can pass nearly the width of the field ala Du Preez is a very valuable player; not those slow floating passes of Lambie. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Nov 2014, 15:01
#25
29 Nov 2014, 15:01#25
 Letsal
Whatever Morne kicked is immaterial - it was mostly inaccurate and aimles kicks.  i kabe no problem with kicking balls - but then the kicks must be part of a strategy  and precise - Morne can never be accused of accurate and precise kicks.\
The AB's gave a exact indication on how they dealt with Morne - whether n Super 15 or in tests and they had his number - purely because he was cluless as a pivot.   He did not attack the gain line - so they ignored him ad drifted out to defend wider out.   That left the inside center in particular completely vulnerable with very little scpe to do anything with the balls they got.
Morne was one of the worst flklyhalfs ever - bcause he was so p[redictable and so plan-deficient.   That is why Stade Francais is not using him as their frontline flyhalf -   Fact.   Even Meyer gave up on him in 2012 and then again this year.   
The worst flyhalf the Springboks had since returning to international rugby in 1992 - that is a fact.  Morne was a disaster for SA rugby and that is a FACT as well.   All that you said about Lambie is actual what applies to Morne - Lambie varies his game and is not prediictable - Morne is.   One major difference - Lambie attacks the gain line - Morne never did.
Du Preez WAS a very valuable player - he is anything but at present.
And for Kirchner       HHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH AAAAAAAAAA What a joke.          
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
29 Nov 2014, 15:15
#26
29 Nov 2014, 15:15#26

In strategic planning this is called a "me too" strategy. To make it work when you are late to the party you need better resources than your opponent. Do the Bools have better backline players than other SA, let alone Oz/NZ teams, I ask you with tears in my eyes?

 

 

All this will result in is the Bools will become the new Cheetahs.  

— END OF THREAD —

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