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FORUM / RUGBY /  Bulls rolling maul illegal: ‘Canes coach; The Roar

Bulls rolling maul illegal: ‘Canes coach; The Roar

Started by Just_win15 REPLIES645 VIEWS· 03 Apr 2014, 21:24
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JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
03 Apr 2014, 21:24
#1
03 Apr 2014, 21:24#1

Hurricanes coach Mark Hammett says the Bulls’ rolling maul is illegal, but the Hurricanes still need to shut it down if they want to win Saturday’s Super rugby clash in Napier.

“The rolling maul is completely illegal in terms of how it’s set up,” Hammett said.

“I’ve talked to refs numerous times, and numerous coaches have done as well, but it’s something they’re not prepared to change.”

Hammett’s issue isn’t with the maul itself, but with players continuously joining the maul in front of the ball carrier.

He says defending players aren’t allowed to enter from an offside position, whereas attacking players are.

“That’s a wide concern, not just ours,” he said.

Hammett says the Hurricanes’ best hopes of negating the rolling maul lie with limiting the Bulls’ opportunities to get one started.

“You need to stop it at the source – you’ve got to stop it before the train gets moving.”

In that respect, the return of loose forward Victor Vito couldn’t be better timed.

Vito and Brad Shields will make their first appearances of the Super Rugby season, with Vito at No.8 for Blade Thomson while Shields will be in the reserves, with both having recovered from knee injuries.

Shields’ return and Thomson’s inclusion on the bench means Ardie Savea drops out of the match-day squad.

The starting 15 for the clash at McLean Park also features the return of All Blacks winger Cory Jane.

Alapati Leiua, who scored a brilliant solo try on the wing in the 29-26 win over the Crusaders last Friday, moves to second five-eighth.

Leiua replaces Tim Bateman who injured a shoulder in the 29-26 win over the Crusaders.

In the front row, prop Jeff Toomaga-Allen, who suffered a head knock in the same match, is bracketed with John Schwalger.

The Bulls are coming off a 34-34 draw with defending champions the Chiefs last week, with lock and captain Flip van der Merwe back in action after a hamstring injury.

In other changes, Jacques Engelbrecht comes in at No.8, with Dewald Potgieter moving to the side of the scrum

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
03 Apr 2014, 21:28
#2
03 Apr 2014, 21:28#2
It took a kiwi coach (Hammett) to point out that the rolling maul is illegal. Sasuke San's favorite coach has his say on the matter, lol
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
03 Apr 2014, 21:34
#3
03 Apr 2014, 21:34#3

The maul is pretty unclear, and I am not entirely sure of how it is refereed. 



Not sure how someone can be offside if 

their team has possesion, unless it is a 

similar rule to being in front of the kicker or

 obstructive running.


Is it only illegal for the attacking team to only

 join from behind the ball carrier?


Hammet is a professional rugby coach so he 

would do well to take the time to explain 

his opinion using the official rule book, than just 

say that it is illegal

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
03 Apr 2014, 21:43
#4
03 Apr 2014, 21:43#4
I think it is mind games. I believe it is legal but it is an exception to  the rule of obstruction.  One of the commentators last weekend said that it was a exception in rugby rules as in any other  situation if you have a player stopping you from getting to the  player carrying the ball it would be called obstruction.
Rooi (I believe it is) is the one to cite the rules, he will know.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
03 Apr 2014, 21:44
#5
03 Apr 2014, 21:44#5
 From Wiki- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union_gameplay

Maul[edit]

A maul[33] occurs when a player carrying the ball is held by one or more opponents, and one or more of the ball carrier's team mates bind on the ball carrier. Once a maul has formed other players may join in but, as in a ruck, they must do so from their own side. If the maul stops moving forward, and the ball is not available to be played, then the referee awards a scrum to the side not in possession when the maul began (unless the maul was formed immediately after a player received a kick other than a kick-off). The tactic of the rolling maul occurs when mauls are set up, and the ball is passed backwards through the players' hands to one at the rear, who rolls off the side to change the direction of the drive. This tactic can be extremely effective in gaining ground and both doing it properly and preventing it takes great skill and technique. It is a tactic most commonly used when the attacking side is inside the defending side's 22 meter line.

It was once illegal on safety grounds to pull down a maul, causing the players to fall to the ground. With the introduction of the Experimental Law Variations it was permitted to pull down a maul if the forward momentum of the attacking side had been neutralised or reversed, subject to maintaining safety. This decision was reversed to make the pulling down of a maul illegal once more.

On the other hand, a maul is not properly formed if the ball carrier binds on to a team-mate from the rear, and both of them then drive into one or more opponents – or if the ball-carrier breaks off from the back of the maul, which continues to drive forward. The players in front are either accidentally or deliberately offside and the referee awards either a scrum or a penalty to the opposing side, depending on whether the infringement was viewed as accidental or deliberate.

The tactic is sometimes referred to by players, commentators, and referees by the colloquial term "truck and trailer".

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
03 Apr 2014, 21:45
#6
03 Apr 2014, 21:45#6

 

Hammett: No whinging, but rolling mauls 'illegal'. 

(Only New Zealanders are allowed to say the referee is wrong, or that other teams are cheating- but still not get classified as whinging.

UNIMPRESSED: Hurricanes coach Mark Hammett believes the Bulls' rolling maul is illegal, but accepts there'll be no law change mid-season. (He wants the laws to be changed to suit touch rugby and prevent strong ball carriers from doing well. Why not bring scrums back to the way they were , instead of the current physical contests)


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Apr 2014, 22:12
#7
03 Apr 2014, 22:12#7
What he wanted to say is the Bools maul is so good it should be made illegal  
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
03 Apr 2014, 22:48
#8
03 Apr 2014, 22:48#8
No doubt Moz- their maul is lethal. Well-formed and powerful.

I do see Hammetts point. Players from both sides are supposed to join from the back. It is strictly enforced on the defending team (joining from the side or "swimming" up the side of the maul is always blown up) but you often see when the maul is initially formed by the attacking team that the one carrying the ball is just backing up while his teammates come from alongside and then form in front of him. Also when the maul is going teammates that lose the formation don't bind on the man with the ball but start beside him at best and before long are in front again in the maul.

The attacking side should be forced to move the ball to the back of the maul between the binds and new players to the maul should join, bind and remain bound to the last player in the maul. 

I expect the "noise" about this will get louder and louder especially as the WC approaches.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
03 Apr 2014, 23:20
#9
03 Apr 2014, 23:20#9
& while the opposition fans went wild  Hammett continued to stir the pot & enjoy his work  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
03 Apr 2014, 23:56
#10
03 Apr 2014, 23:56#10
I thought it was Greasy Joan who keeled the pot?  
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
04 Apr 2014, 07:05
#11
04 Apr 2014, 07:05#11
its obvious that hammet is reading my blogs and implementing my ideas, from the way the hurricanes looseforwards have been positioned and named the last few rounds, the inclusion of alapati leiua into the centers with the return of taylors form and now the making noise about the legality of the way rolling mauls are reffed.

after round 1 i blogged a number of times that the defending teams are the only ones who have to come from the back of the maul, attacking team consistently have players who form from the side.

its obvious that SA have made great advancements with their techniques in the rolling maul, SA rugby dont have the ability to play a consistent and natural expansive game the way NZ and even australia does.
so while the saffas are lagging behind in exciting backline play, they are world leaders with the rolling maul based assaults.

but its poor form to bitch about it, thats the national anthem of losers, like the bulk of the locals here who on a weekly basis go on a baby waa waa raant about how the ref cost them a game (pathetic much???), instead, u just need to adapt, something that kiwis teams have struggled to do in this area aaginst the saffa teams.

out of all the kiwi teams the crusaders have been the best at defending against the rolling mauls.
the chiefs are competent and can hold their own, and who can forget that beautiful rollingmaul when they hammered the final nail in the stormers NZ coffin.

hurricanes just need to remember that they can also illegally come from the side, and they should mix that in with the rest of our natural expansive game.

as for countering that roling maul especially the ones from lineouts, it starts with contesting the ball, the bulk of the time it will go to the main jumpers and theres nothing more frustrating then watching them get uncontested ball.

BTW, hammet still sucks the big one, he needs to get fired so that tana umaga can come and lead NZs 4th team to a super rugby title.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Apr 2014, 08:55
#12
04 Apr 2014, 08:55#12
Mozart: are you quoting Shakespeare? The pomposity index just hit 10 (hot air to fuel ratio), lol Congrats
  evidence provided by JW surveillance system (Patent pending)
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Apr 2014, 10:51
#13
04 Apr 2014, 10:51#13
 Brother saSUE please be assurred there wiull be no let up on bent down under refs.Also, wee Bray must understand the rot starts with nz refs and he must not think he can drop Oz, SA and Argentina refs and let nz refs get off the hook.
Beeno clarifying matters for the very confused saSUE
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
05 Apr 2014, 03:13
#14
05 Apr 2014, 03:13#14
@beeno1 aka storminged,

i think u are the last person who should be talking about refs.

i still havent forgotten when u asked if a NZ ref was going to be reffing the All Blacks vs france test in june,,,
LMFAO,

but bravo brother beeno, full credit for not having the fear (or smarts) to show ur ignorance, :oP

FYI joubert, peyper and pollock are the best SH refs going around easy.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
05 Apr 2014, 04:54
#15
05 Apr 2014, 04:54#15
 I was going to say that law is clear enough for even the sillier breeds of monkey to understand but then beandork started chattering and lent the lie to that theory .
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
05 Apr 2014, 08:48
#16
05 Apr 2014, 08:48#16
"I was going to say that law is clear enough for even the sillier breeds of monkey to understand but then beandork started chattering and lent the lie to that theory."
Nicely put, Wardad! 
Never underestimate Baboon-ou's ability to plumb new depths of stupidity!
— END OF THREAD —

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