FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Can an SA side win Super Rugby?

Can an SA side win Super Rugby?

Started by bluebok10 REPLIES242 VIEWS· 13 May 2013, 16:50
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
13 May 2013, 16:50
#1
13 May 2013, 16:50#1
My answer, no! I know the Bulls currently top the SA Log, but they have been anything but convincing! It looks to me as though the Cheetahs fairytale is also slowly starting to come to an end going by their loss at home this past weekend. Sharks, my pre-season favorites, basically don't have a sniff. Partly due to injury, and partly just to no living up to their potential. Stormers have just been poor! King have been better than anyone expected them to be, but that is about all they'll achieve this year. All teams have had to deal with injuries, so that is no excuse, so why is it that our teams are just that one step off the pace? My point, although the tournament as a whole is closer this year than I can remember it, Aus and NZ teams just seem to be more consistent. I can't see the Bulls or the Cheetahs going all the way.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 May 2013, 17:20
#2
13 May 2013, 17:20#2

The Sharks and Stormers have let us down in a big way. The Bulls have hung in there and the Cheetahs have done us proud. The Kings are wooden spoon candidates, but that's what we expected.

 

The Bulls have the side to win it and are playing a more expansive game, which is a positive. However, I suspect the conservative Ludeke, will resort to retaining the likes of Olivier ahead of Jan Serfontein, Werner Kruger ahead of Frik Kirsten and he will bring back the out of form Kirchner, for the more creative Visser.

 

If Ludeke follows this path as I suspect he will, the Bulls will fall short

BL
bluebok
Pro3,977 posts
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
13 May 2013, 18:00
#3
13 May 2013, 18:00#3
Saff, I can't shake the feeling that our teams are just hanging in there, instead of being genuine contenders. Last year the Stormers and Sharks had a genuine shot at the title, this year the Bulls, the only SA team that has the capacity to challenge, will only make the semis by virtue of the conference system. I don't think they'll even finish in the top three. Not sure where we went wrong this year, but there was every chance of having the Sharks, Stormers and Bulls at the top of the overall log at the start of the season, that is just a pipe dream now. Is it our coaches, a national attitude, lack of talent or what that has us in this position?
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
13 May 2013, 18:28
#4
13 May 2013, 18:28#4

Well alot has changed in a year. Last year we had the Stormers, Sharks and Bulls ending in the top 5 and that was with young inexperienced sides, who should have carried that form into this years comp and built on the achievements of last year.

 

Injuries have played a part, but it also seems to be apparent that coaches like Plum and Coetzee have also run their course.

 

The Sharks have lost 8 or so at any given time of the likes of Ludik, JP, Mvovo, Whitehead, Frans, Jordaan, Reinach, Jannie, Beast, Chadwick, Bismark, Alberts and Deysel.

 

The Stormers the same with Taute, Habana, v/d Heever, Grant, Jantjies, Liebenberg, Etzebeth, Schalk, Elstadt, Kolisi and Rhodes.

 

These injuries will have impacted in a big way, but there have also been selections issues with Plum and Coetzee.

 

I'd say for the Stormers and Sharks its been a combination of injuries and poor selections.

 

I think if the Bulls continue in the fashion they did in their last match, they will end up in the top 3.

 

The Cheetahs have surpassed expectation, so along with the Bulls, are the only two sides that have done us proud to date.

 

Lets just hope one of the Stormers or Sharks can make a late charge and win the rest of their matches and regain some respectability.

 

BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
13 May 2013, 18:46
#5
13 May 2013, 18:46#5

Hey Bluebok you say all sides have to deal with injury. Thats fine as I guess all sides have had at least on einjury. But do you really think all sides had the same number of injuries. Thereafter you have to look at how key they were and were they all in one area eg loose foward or whatever, how many at one time etc .

To say all sides had to dea lwith injuries is a nonsensical statement if you stop there. The Sharks had 17 squad members out and stormers a little less. Bulls and Cheetahs had a few in comparison. If Cheetahs had had 17 players out they would be copping it big time etc etc.

Please lets have some realism here.  Name a side who would have done better than our two sides given similar circumstances.bull eto bea tsharks with 17 sqaud member out. Hahhahahahahahaha hialrious really. Ditto Stormers. Even given all the legit criticsm of the Stormers play. At full strength they would no have not lost a single match in my view. The Sharks would in all likelihood be in the top 4 or at least 6. How many clsoe games have they lost - and I am not even talking about kiwi refs.

To me there is every indication that barring these injuries we would have had a bumper year given the improvement in the Bulle and Cheetahs.

There is little chance of winning if one travels to Nz - the double whammy of travel and refs. If Bulle were at Loftus they would be in with a shout but they are very unlikely to top log . Cheetahs will not also not win it in my view.

One has to hope all these injuries to Stormers and Cheetahs doesnt affect Boks too much.  I seriously believe this is an issue the Sports Science Institute should investigate. It cant all be bad luck. Conditioning, tecnique in going to into contact, style of play, player rotation, training etc etc. A carefull study needs to be done.  It has reached absurd proportions and knocked on the head the chances of the two top SA franchises.

No squeals about excuses oaks were are dealing wih facts here so do try and distinguish between the two.

 

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
13 May 2013, 20:09
#6
13 May 2013, 20:09#6

Even before the first game was played this year there were danger signals like nobody would believe.   Coetzee listened to hype and got rid of Catrakillis so as to get Jantjies on Board.  That was a fatal mistake - the Stormers should have won their opener against the Bulls - but Jantjies missed  four goal kick attempts.  

Plumtree also made a serious mistake in playing Steyn - after th latter turned up for trainning weighing 118 kgs and hopelessly unfit.   He should never have played him until he became fully fit.   The first signs that he was slowly improving was in the Hurricanes game and in the Blues game - for the rest he was a crashballing paasenger - showing minimal defensive capacity  

Those two selection errors - and the fact that Coetzee also pick mini-sized players for his backline - were serious mistakes.   On the whole to date the two teams suffred from glaring attacking deficiencies and on defence especially the Stormers did not meet requirements wit the lack of defence by Jantjies, De Jongh and Aplon particularly glaribg

Can anything still be salvaged - I think Plumtree is correct in what he is saying - the Sharks cannot recover from their latest losses to get into the top 6.   The ame can e said about the Stormers - they cannot recover.   The Cheetahs hav still got a chance - but some difficult games coming up.   The Bulls is the only team with a realistic chance to be in the play-offs and the play off-game will be at Loftus Versveld.   I suspect they can stuill win that one - but face certain defeat if they have to play the Crusaders away in the semis.   The outcome would depend on team selection - but I suspect that Ludeke will bugger up badly and play some seriously out of form players lie Kirchner.

What really is bothering is whether Meyer has learnt anything from the fiasco this year.   Judging by his training grouphehas not learnt anything and is stickingt with the sick, lame and useless lot on condition of course that you have a Bulls contract.He made a farce of selections last year and will no doubt continue in similar vein this year.  Our rugby future this year looks bleak at best. .    .  

MD
Monkey D Luffy
Pro6,277 posts
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
13 May 2013, 21:33
#7
13 May 2013, 21:33#7

even before the preseason games when i saw the squads i like everyone thought the sharks and stromers would be in the top 6 easy, but only the stormers IMO came across as serious title contenders.

fast forward to rnd13 and thers some huge shockers on the table, with the cheetahs and bulls in the top 6, while the shockers of the season are the stormers with 30pts sitting in at 10th and the sharks with 29pts just behind them on 11th place.

i cant really see any SA team being a threat in the finals, even in their own back yard except the stormers. IMO bulls, sharks and cheetahs will lose to any of the top teams who are most likely to make the finals which include crusaders, cheifs, btumbies and rebels
and if they have to travel out of SA which is the most likely scenario, their chances get even lower.

brumbies, reds, crusaders & chiefs, take ur pick but one of them will win it, IMO it will be out of the reds and crusaders.

OI
oimatey
Pro1,870 posts
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
13 May 2013, 23:03
#8
13 May 2013, 23:03#8

 Definitely.

 

Bulls have the roster and momentum to do it as well as a favorable schedule. Highlanders, Kings, Sharks X2, Cheetahs and Stormers. Highlanders and Kings games are both home games that they should win easily. Sharks have lost their mojo and the Bulls get them for the first time right after they get back from the road trip and the second time at home. The Cheetahs looked a little breathless against the Hurricanes as the lack of depth/rotation and directionless play from the flyhalf position is catching up to them - three weeks from now they will be even more so when they face the Bulls. Stormers game at Newlands will be tough but the Bulls could foreseably run the table the rest of the year setting them up nicely for the playoffs. 

 

Bulls to host the Crusaders at Loftus in the final. 

 

SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
14 May 2013, 00:03
#9
14 May 2013, 00:03#9

Disagree Sas, the way the Bulls played in the last game, showed they were finding form at the right time and they have the players to beat any side, in particular a side like the Brumbies who peaked early but will fail at the business end as they did last year.

 

The Bulls are up there with the best sides in the comp. The Stormers and Sharks should have been, but they have let SA rugby down in a big way

BO
Boklogic
Pro1,978 posts
BO
BoklogicPro1,978 posts
14 May 2013, 00:32
#10
14 May 2013, 00:32#10

Saffex, very sound post but all you guys are way off the mark with your analysis and reality of whats happening.

 

After the Highlanders great win over the Sharks and the Kings toppling them this weekend, its clear for all to see that the last game of this past round was a dress rehearsal for the final.

Kings vs Highlanders final. Two greatest comebacks of all time ;-)

CA
canrugby
Club Pro640 posts
CA
canrugbyClub Pro640 posts
14 May 2013, 02:57
#11
14 May 2013, 02:57#11

No. It's not hapenning this season.

 

People have mentioned some good reasons why.

I know this. When I watch the Stormers play any Kiwi, or Aus team and the Stormers are on the attack, I am basically just waiting for the ball to be turned over, or for a penalty to go against the Stormers in the breakdown.

 

The play at the breakdown is better for Aus, and Kiwi sides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news