sharkbok
Captain23,224 posts
Captain23,224 posts
11 Sept 2023, 19:30
#1
11 Sept 2023, 19:30#1
Center Pairings
Started by sharkbok15 REPLIES782 VIEWS· 11 Sept 2023, 19:30
sharkbok
Captain23,224 posts
Captain23,224 posts
11 Sept 2023, 19:41
#2
11 Sept 2023, 19:41#2
When Leroux got on the pitch, he replaced Libok - and I think Willemse went to 10.
Ideally, Delande would have been replaced to give Willemse a run at 12.
Esterhuizen and Kriel could be a solid combination on defence
Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2023, 19:53
#3
11 Sept 2023, 19:53#3
de Allende, Esterhuizen and Moodie should be the 3 to consider with Willemse to cover
Either:
de Allende / Esterhuizen
de Allende / Moodie
Esterhuizen / Moodie
Willemse / Moodie
De Allende / Willemse
Esterhuizen / Willemse
Captain21,007 posts
11 Sept 2023, 21:08
#4
11 Sept 2023, 21:08#4
The choice is clear.
It's AE and Moodie.
Captain30,741 posts
11 Sept 2023, 22:05
#5
11 Sept 2023, 22:05#5
Disagree there is nothing clear about it, DA is the incumbent and rightly so he was good against Scotland
sharkbok
Captain23,224 posts
Captain23,224 posts
11 Sept 2023, 22:13
#6
11 Sept 2023, 22:13#6
If Willie Leroux and Libbok can create tries for the wingers, why can't Delande?
It is not what Delande is doing, it is what he is not doing is his weakness.
Far too often Delande is around the ruck between the scrumhalf and flyhalf, carrying the ball up.
Then he spends the recycled phase at the bottom of the ruck.
The backline functions better with Delande is not on the pitch. The ball goes down the backline with quick hands, or draw and pass, or crash ball (when it's the best option).
Delande is often to upright in the tackle on crash ball so he gets stripped by the 2nd tackler.
Captain21,007 posts
12 Sept 2023, 07:22
#7
12 Sept 2023, 07:22#7
Also, DDA jogs into contact these days.
Look back at the Scotty game and notice the speed that he hits the line with compared to how AE goes in at full pace.
There's a marked difference.
AE does everything DDA does but better.
With AE, in the games he started this year, we had forward dominance and scored a bunch of tries in every game.
Strangely, when DDA starts we never score as many tries regardless of how dominant our pack is.
If 12 is the heart of the backline, the most important player in it, and with one 12 you consistently put more points on the board than with than with the other 12...then the choice is clear.
At some point you will have to decide whether 12 is or is not the most important position in the backs, Saffex.
...because if it is, then the score lines make it very obvious who should be selected.
Pro7,008 posts
12 Sept 2023, 07:56
#8
12 Sept 2023, 07:56#8
DDA is good ..ish.
AE any day of the week
Captain30,741 posts
12 Sept 2023, 08:37
#9
12 Sept 2023, 08:37#9
12 is the most important position in the backline and I disagree with everything you say about DA. He made more metres in contact against Scotland than any other player. He is not jogging into contact, he is operating in traffic not from deep structured play. He had a good game that’s a fact so deserves to be starting.
Don’t get me wrong I’m a huge fan of AE and if he was starting I’d be more than happy. Reality is that he has not had one try assist so anything he has done has not created tries. He has been physical and direct like DA has been - you don’t see the offloads or him attacking space it’s all power play through players
Shark wake up it’s not the job of our 12 to slot in at 10 or roam like Willie in order to create. No test 12 is doing that - do you see Aki, Danty, Tuilagi, Jordie, Kerevi, Tiapolotu etc creating as Willie and Libbok do?
sharkbok
Captain23,224 posts
Captain23,224 posts
12 Sept 2023, 08:56
#10
12 Sept 2023, 08:56#10
Leroux often enters the backline as a 2nd receiver, the inside center position.
Esterhuizen is a big player, but is also playmaker.
Captain21,007 posts
12 Sept 2023, 12:20
#11
12 Sept 2023, 12:20#11
Not that the group is "always" right, but it IS mostly correct.
This entire board can see the pros and cons of both DDA and AE...and the remaining DDA supporters are in a very small minority. Remember, that was not always the case. He had much more support previously...but slowly almost everybody has lost confidence in him.
I think it's you and Mike, Saffex, that's about it. A rough estimate puts you in a 5-10% minority.
It may be different were it a 30/70 split, or even 20/80...but when it gets under 10% then the odds are very slim that your position is the correct one.
What compounds the matter is the body of evidence. Take Wiese as an example, we've not seen much of him, so any judgments are certainly premature because he could still come good or bad, it's simply too early to tell.
But with DDA there is almost a decade of evidence.
The final defense is to say that despite all the evidence, the majority are simply wrong and do not understand the game as well as you do.
So the obvious question would then be regarding what it is that makes you feel that you are more qualified than the majority?
That's not even a rugby approach to the problem, it's simply logic.
sharkbok
Captain23,224 posts
Captain23,224 posts
12 Sept 2023, 12:41
#12
12 Sept 2023, 12:41#12
A inside center needs to keep the defense guessing. And all-round centre is needed, one that can
1. Crashball2. Draw and pass
3. Offload in the tackle
4. Make clean breaks
5. Make short pop passes and long passes (on both sides)
6. Run onto the ball at pace from various angles to give his outside players time to form a line.
A crashball will be much more effective if the defense knows it is an all-round center that is able to take any option.
1. Crashball2. Draw and pass
3. Offload in the tackle
4. Make clean breaks
5. Make short pop passes and long passes (on both sides)
6. Run onto the ball at pace from various angles to give his outside players time to form a line.
A crashball will be much more effective if the defense knows it is an all-round center that is able to take any option.
Captain30,741 posts
12 Sept 2023, 13:02
#13
12 Sept 2023, 13:02#13
Am I meant to respect the views of posters on here regarding DA over Rassie picking him every time and him making the world side of the year last year?
Think about it - do you really think 3 different pundits would select such a shit player as their best 12 of the year
I judge him based on appreciating his role in the side and what he is instructed to do, you guys don’t, you want to see a 12 attacking space and being fleet of foot. That’s a dream - it does not happen in test rugby. Your expectations are based on what you see in Super rugby where the ball is thrown about at will.
I appreciate the fact that a test 12 spends most of his time operating in traffic and DA is the best in the business at that as he is freakishly powerful
Shark - no Willie certainly does not pop up at 12, he pops up at 10
Captain30,741 posts
12 Sept 2023, 13:05
#14
12 Sept 2023, 13:05#14
So Shark given your list which other test inside centre does that?
A big fat zero is the answer, except for maybe once in a game when the opportunity presents itself
Fact is DA has been better than any of the 12’s he has opposed of late as was AE against Barrett but that was not through attacking space it was through sheer power
sharkbok
Captain23,224 posts
Captain23,224 posts
12 Sept 2023, 13:13
#15
12 Sept 2023, 13:13#15
Esterhuizen is the complete package. He is in his prime in the form of his life.
Look how he ran over Jordie Barrett (who is 6 foot 6), look how he offloads, look at his varied angles of attack, look how the backline is giving time to realign before he takes contact or makes a pass.
Delande is not a bad player, he has all the physical attributes. However, he does not have the playmaking ability of a Kurdriani, Jean Devilliers or Esterhuizen
Captain30,741 posts
12 Sept 2023, 13:33
#16
12 Sept 2023, 13:33#16
Yes he ran over Barrett, he is 118kg versus Barrett at 100kg. He never offloaded none of his runs lead to tries - he was very good at doing what Bok 12’s are good at - being physical
He never attacked space, he used his power to good effect
This notion that he is doing something different to DA is a joke and certainly not a better play maker than DA and nor was Jean but he played in a different era
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