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Center Performances - SA Franchises

Started by clevermike13 REPLIES231 VIEWS· 24 Apr 2014, 06:07
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Apr 2014, 06:07
#1
24 Apr 2014, 06:07#1

The following centers are rated statistically in accordance with performances thus far this Super 15:-


No 12


1  Damian de Allende

2  Jan Serfontein

3  Stefan Watermeyer

4  Jean de Villiers

5  Francois Venter

6  Francois Steyn


No 13


1  Johann Sadie

2  JJ Enhelbrecht

3  Juan de Jongh

4  Paul Jordaan


Looking at overall performances and not strictly according to Statisticsm  the ratings are somewhat different since issues such as reading of the game and ability to score tries, make line breaks, effective defense and ball handling and skills needs to be taken into account.


No 12


1  Damian de Allende

2  Jean de Villiers

3  Jan Serfontein

4  Stefan Watermeyer

5  Francois Steyn

6  Francois Venter


No 13


1  Paul Jordaan

2  Johann Sadie

3  JJ Engelbrecht

4  Juan de Jongh


The position at 13 has not been clarified as yet.  Engelbrecht for instance showed nothing on attack - but his defense this year was better than last year.  Johann Sadie benefited from the overall attacking flair of the Cheetahs backline and was 

helped along by players like Willie le Roux.   Jordaan  playing outside Francois Steyn,  who tended to hog balls and not pass it to players outside of him - had limited opportunities to show his real worth.   However, despite that Jordaan showed considerable abilities through plays he had to create himself.    Jordaan has been out for 6 weeks and will have to show us his real worth over the next six weeks 0 but this may be jeopardized by sub-par performances by Steyn.   


The basic problem of virtually all centers are that they have poor ball skills and reading of games and are basically ineffective in play making.  The only real exceptions are De Allende, De Villiers and to a lesser extent Serfontein.   


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
24 Apr 2014, 06:29
#2
24 Apr 2014, 06:29#2
It is the weakest position in South African rugby, especially the inside centres. 
We need players that are physical versions of Willie LeRoux at inside centre, not "creatine crash balls" trying to find gaps where non-exist.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Apr 2014, 08:44
#3
24 Apr 2014, 08:44#3

Well that's very odd. And I think I have a reason, but let me lay out the facts:

 

Runs     De Allende 43    de Jongh 19

 

Metres   De Allende 139  de Jongh  111

 

Metres per run   De Allende 3.2   de Jongh 5.84

 

Clean Breaks   De Allende  3   de Jongh 5

 

Runs to get a clean break   De Allende 14    de Jongh 4

 

Defenders beaten De Allende 14    de Jongh 5

 

Runs to beat a defender De Allende  3     de Jongh 4

 

Tackles made percentage De Allende 82%     de Jongh 92%

 

So de Jongh is better in metres per run, clean breaks per run, and in tackle effectiveness. De Allende is slightly better in defenders beaten per run.

 

But De Allende is statistically the best centre according to the OOM. This seems pretty much impossible, unless of course the Ooms statistical source has bungled the fact de Allende played games on the wing where bigger yardages are common.

 

But in all honesty I don't believe de Jongh is third among the 13s anyway....no way JJ is making that many breaks or gaining 5.8 metres per run.

 

Just another statistical balls up.

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Apr 2014, 09:58
#4
24 Apr 2014, 09:58#4
 Mozart
Let me explain something.    De Jongh playing at 12?  Now that is something new to me. Dimwit pleas wake up before you go bananas.    You are comparing a 12 and a 13  and then go dodgy?
The real issue is not the one about statistics in any event you carry on about 0 it is the second issue  rating according to wider performances that is of importance.   That is where your precious DE Jongh made too many bugger ups to be considered.          
      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Apr 2014, 10:06
#5
24 Apr 2014, 10:06#5

 And just to prove the point, here is JJ vs de Jongh:

 

Runs    JJ 39    de Jongh 19

 

Metres   JJ 132  de Jongh  111

 

Metres per run   JJ 3.4   de Jongh 5.84

 

Clean Breaks   JJ 4   de Jongh 5

 

Runs to get a clean break   JJ 9.8    de Jongh 4

 

Defenders beaten JJ 7    de Jongh 5

 

Runs to beat a defender JJ 5.6     de Jongh 4

 

Tackles made percentage JJ 91%     de Jongh 92%

 

So de Jongh dominates JJ in every stat, except for the tackle % stat....which he still wins. I'd love to be able to produce a tackles made by yourself stat or a metres in the tackle stat....de Jongh would dominate there as well.

 

So OOM for crying out loud, how did you get JJ statistically ahead of de Jongh.

 

Stay away from the matches you old coot!

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Apr 2014, 10:14
#6
24 Apr 2014, 10:14#6

Actually I don't believe the 12 and 13 stats would be much different and you have always been crowing about how much better De Allende is than de Jongh.....but try explaining your JJ stat result. How the hell did you get that balls up. And I think if you ran the numbers on Jordaan you'd find he had the best 13 stats, and you have him last. How wrong can you be? I mean seriously, you can't be this wrong if you tried.

 

As for your "phase 2" that's just your biased observations....closer to the source than toilet paper.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Apr 2014, 10:33
#7
24 Apr 2014, 10:33#7
Mozart
Dim again - a 12 generally gained less meters than a 13 statistically since a 12 operates nearer to or often enough in traffic.
The isecond issue is where your favourites really come short.   De Jongh played in two matches and showed some real progress in the first two matches, but he also buggered up badly on the whole.  In the thiord matcj he was actually sub-par. Losing possession of the ball - deficient reading of the game - ie lack of passing of balls when destroying overlaps - aimless kicking after line breaks when in space - you name it De Jongh did it.   Those things show serious deficiencies in thinking rugby - he showed near to zero rugby intelligence.
I am surprised - no vigorous  defense of Steyn?  What is wrong here - since you want him in the Springbok team come hell or high water.  Both statistically and in actual performances he was shit poor.           
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2014, 16:47
#8
24 Apr 2014, 16:47#8
Good old de Jongh who cant even make a one on one tackle against Skosan.......bwhaahaaaaaa  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Apr 2014, 17:08
#9
24 Apr 2014, 17:08#9

The second issue is nothing....just your biased opinion. The first issue, or list, is your claim about the statistical reality. Except it's not.....it's gibberish. It bears no relation to the truth.....but you presented the list as a fact.

 

 

In fact it's so wrong one has to ask whether you just made it up. Is something wrong upstairs Mike....are you just lying on here to suit your purposes or make yourself look good? What is it dishonesty or incompetence?

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Apr 2014, 20:47
#10
24 Apr 2014, 20:47#10
Mozart
If any center has done something worthwhile on a regular basis - he would get credit from me.   However, if he occasionally did something good and for the rest buggers up - no credit is given.    
Biased I am not - objective I am.  I watching the games 0 I do not take my opinions from what is written by a newspaper reporter.


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Apr 2014, 22:45
#11
24 Apr 2014, 22:45#11
Look you pathetically stupid man.....it has nothing to do with your opinion. Nobody with half a brain pays any attention to your opinions. It's about you distorting and manipulating facts....you need to stop lying. On this Board we shouldn't have to check the truth of information presented as fact. ...it's a waste of time, and just generally low class behaviour. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Apr 2014, 23:19
#12
24 Apr 2014, 23:19#12
 Mozart
So I am wrong - the stats is wrong - everyone but you are wrong.  You think you are correct - but you cannot prove anything.   Go to a lunatic asylum and some inmates will tell you they are sane - everyone else is mad.  You are a typical such  inmate.   Come back and explain the stats of the players mentioned and explain without bias what happened on the field of play - and some may believe you.  However, you are the person who uses selective arguments and then still twist them that it is unbelievable.   
Have a go and explain what makes the players you always punt so good 0 not write praise songs and newspaper hype.  O am, waiting for the joke!!!!!    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Apr 2014, 01:07
#13
25 Apr 2014, 01:07#13
I didn't start this particular stats debate....you did. But you presented facts which I have proven above to be wrong. It's not an opinion, it's a fact that you are wrong. A classy person would apologize, you neither have the upbringing or the self confiidence to do that. 
To think of all that bs you wrote about your family....we re they also liars?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Apr 2014, 12:39
#14
25 Apr 2014, 12:39#14
 Mozart
Apologize for what?   You conveniently lefty out ball losses inn your wonderful calculation.   De Jongh played in three matches - the third one he was a joke.  Hanging onto balls which he should have passed - can he pass balls?  
By the way I used the Foxsport stats in this case - so your attack using the ESPN stats were way off.   There are differences - but they in the long run comes out more or less equal to what ESPN produces.   So there goes your attack out of the window.  Over a period of say 6 matches De Jongh will botch up again like he did last year.

     

— END OF THREAD —

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