Cheslin Kolbe

 I really like this kid. he reminds me of a young aplon just a bit bigger :). Man he is dangerious on the counterattack with the ball in hand and cuts the line beautifully, you can't teach that. He will do brilliantly in the sevens side but He might be provinces answer from the back. He is the full package on attack with those inside out little kicks last night beautifull to watch.

Was thinking of province's attack ails in the past 2 years and with Kolbe and Swiel both on the books province will not do badly to develop Swiel at 10 and Kolbe at 15.

Ek, Kolbe has great talent. In fact apart form size considerations he appears to have it all. A brilliant player.

The question to me is where to play him. Will he cope at 15 at Super 15 or test level? I have suggested he has all the attributes to make a world class scrummie and he looks to be more talented even than Genia. genia cant run like this guy!!!!! However he is not simply an excellent  athlete he has a very good rugby brain.

I quite like the idea of Sweil and Kolbe at half back for WP. Cause some loosies sleepless nights and tie them down as they would need to be very closely watched!

 Problem with playing Kolbe at 9 is that I have no idea weither he has the pass, Scrummie that can only run and is dangerious with no pass will only result in another Sarel Pretorius. Pretorius is an excellent rugby player but he misses the most basic skill of a 9--- passing.

At fullback he currently has everything. If Aplon can cope he can, he ain't much smaller than Willie le roux for that matter and he seems bigger than Aplon. 

Imagine him running off Swiel's inside shoulder. damn that could create havoc. all you need is a physical 9 that has quick service and a pass that reaches the sideline, nothing more then the backline will do the rest...

Ek Thanks for starting this topic, this needs to be discussed. I am well aware that Cheslin Kolbe has recently been in great form in the JWC team. He is a specialist at counter attacking and sidestepping, that is what caught my attention. His positional option shouldn't questioned because he is a fullback although he could play on the wing, any other position for him would be a total waste of talent like Hougaard who is not a scrum half. As far as Swiel is concerned I think fly half should be his best option because very often there is not many fly halfs that are produced with his attributes and im sure that would be his preference. I Hope Cheslin and Swiel gets a opportunity to play at S15 level next year or when ever the time is ready before they get other offers to play elsewhere. Cheslin could be better than Le Roux when he progresses to a higher state of experience and skill. Stormers need him.

What weight is Kolbe?  One website I see gives him at 69 kg!   Willie is given at 90 kg on the Free State website. Ek I really wish this guy well and hope he can play at senior level but 69 kg - man that is very small.

At junoir level he can get away with it much like Keegan Daniel did as a junior. It led many to believe Keegan would be fine at flank when he could also have made a Justin Marshall like scrummie. That said, Kolbe will be tested should we meet the abs in the final. Our Baby Bok back three lacks collective clout but is great on the run.

Passing is a mechanical thing. Surely with that abundance of talent he could learn the scrummie pass with ease. He sure slips out  a good long pass when in the backline.

Re Sweil was there not talk of him going to England?

 Yes Beeno. Passing is a mechanical thing, and yes he could leanr and yes he could be very effective at scrummy. but we don't know if he will master that as good as he is from the counterattck at the back. we also don't know if by moving him closer to the action we might take away from the pace and speed at which he does counterattack and we are also removing his space by moving him closer, not so sure if it really is worth it.

Regarding his size... someone with that amount of talent won't let size get in his way. 69 is a bit light however i think it's old he is a bit bigger than that from what i can see on the TV. also he is still young in 2 years time he would have put on some wheight as well.

The only issue with size from my point of view is career longevity. A msall guy can make up fr it with skill but bigger okes are bound to get to him in the long run with regards to injuries. except if he is like aplon who doesn't seem to get hurt much then it won't be an issue. Normally I like a tall Fullback as well but the talent this kid has kind of makes up for that as well. You can't let talent like this go to waste just because you think he is too small.

regarding Swiel, there hasn't been any talk that i know of regarding him actually going to play in England. As far as I understood it he only withdrew from the baby boks side to keep his options open to one day be in a position to qualify to play for both England and south Africa depending on who picks him first. i assume he would have a preference to play for the boks off course, but if that does not materialise then he will move.

69kg?? He sure doesn't look it.

If that's the case he'll get badly hurt at Super Rugby level and completley demolished at test level.

A pity. He has the talent but not the body.

Another Brent Russell.

CC i f that weight is correct then its hard to think he can make it apart from scrummie. We shall see what happens.

As Ek says he does look  bigger than 69 kg. However what I am saying is they mustn't necessarly think he can play 15 at Senior level. He is a rare talent and I hope he is led in the right direction.

Kolbe is 79kg, weight is not much of a issue because he's a fullback not a prop. Shane Williams at 80kg is rated one of the best welsh wingers to be produced, its a pity some tend to define a player based on weight. Kolbe will be well known in the future, real talent!

The above is from Wikipedia.

I say wing is his best position. Less tackling is required for a wing. Shane Williams was the same size and a first choice Lions winger.

If you just so happened to find yourself (at 79kg) as the last man defending your try line and a Savea or Gear is hurtling at you ... somebody's going to get hurt and I do not think it's gonna be the attacker.

Everyone needs to be able to defend.

If you cannot defend you are a liability that will be exploited.

That's for sure!!

 79 at 19 years of age. makes him about 85 in 2 years time when he is 21.

with his skill 85 is more than enough. He should however not put one more weight that that.

 Breyton Paulse was never a great defender and not much heavier than Kolbe. 

However Breyton scored more tries on his side than he let be scored.

His attack outweighed hi s defence. 

If Kolbe scores 2 tries a game on his side, and lets in one a game which is better?

CleanCut I can recall Savea knocking over Isreal Dagg who was the last defender. Dagg is ( at 95kg ). So I don't understand the point you are trying to make. At any weight it is difficult to defend against them not just below 80 kg. As a defender it would probably be harder for Savea to keep up with Kolbe or Shane because of their pace and great sidestep, he would be left for dead. That's for sure!!

Actually that's not quite the way to look at it, Sharkbok.

Besides if that's the way you select a side then be prepared for Kolbe to be letting a few more trys in than that ... say like all day long.  

 CleanCut it is the correct way to look at it if you want to play attacking rugby and not conservative rugby.

How many tries did Jona Lomu score against Breyton Paulse? 

Or why not just play Rhule who is 4kg heavier, but half as good. Or maybe play Jaco Taute on the wing just because he mays more than 90kg. 

A wing is on the field to score tries. If they score more tries than they concede then it does not take a mathematician to work out the scoreline. 

Maybe he can take some inspiration from Leigh Halfpenny? But I would like to see him at scrummie.

Rubbish!!

To deliberately select a player who'll cost you points is moronic. I don’t care how good an attacker he is.

The point of competing is to score points against your opponent ... without them scoring against you.

Hellooooooooo!!!!

It’s like a boxer who has a heavy right hand … however the problem is he first needs to take a few shots before he can administer his own.

Stupid.  

Rubbish!!

To deliberately select a player who'll cost you points is moronic. I don’t care how good an attacker he is.

The point of competing is to score points against your opponent ... without them scoring against you.

Hellooooooooo!!!!

It’s like a boxer who has a heavy right hand … however the problem is he first needs to take a few shots before he can administer his own.

Stupid.  

So according to your argument you would select negatively only for defensive purposes. If no on scores against me I win. Hell you would end up with 120 kg props on the wing unable to score tries. ---- oh forgot, Rugby is actually going that route. hmmmm soon we won't wee tries at all anymore. would be a really nice game to play and watch. 

hell what happened to the game. it ued to be a game for all shapes and sizes, everyone had a position on the field according totheir streinghs and waeknesses, body shape, size etc. Strange game you like, I think the one where all the players are the sames shape and size is calle League, maybe you should start watchng that. I'll stick to union.

Huh??

Ok ... it's a Friday afternoon and you've clearly had a few ... probably a few too many.

I have re-read my post and for the life of me I can't seem to find the part where I have props playing on the wing.

Nor can I pick up anything about selecting negatively.

Help me out here, Ek!!

May I make a suggestion ... ???

Go sleep it off and then come back when you've sobered up ... ok??

Can I expect a contribution of some sort ... linebreaker??

Or is that your best attempt??

I mean ... feel free to share your wisdom with us on this topic ... by all means ...??

If nothing comes to mind then do me a favour will ya .... shut your mouth!!!

CC let me explain it better...

Your words:

To deliberately select a player who'll cost you points is moronic. I don’t care how good an attacker he is.

Which means you selcet someone purely on the ability they have to defend.

You don't care about how good someone can attack.

120 kg props definitely fit the size comllumn, also you don't mind a wing not bieng able to attack so the fact that they run the 100 m in 2 years is of no consequence to you, also the fact that they can't run around people is of no concequence to you.

So you will end up with 120 kg props playing wing if you use the above philosophy to pick your team.

So my 80 kg wings will run circles around you :)....

 Now I know you don't really want to select props, I don't think you are an idiot. Just painitng a picture of a possible scenario that such a pphilosphy could create..

...You with me?

Your pphilosphy, Ek!! ...

Not mine!!

I dont want a 79kg weakling in my team who'll be freight trained by eveyone running down his channel.

I would prefer to have a 90kg powerhouse that will do the freight training ... score me as many tries as your weakling AND be an asset on defence ...

Uh-duh!!!!

Like I said ... go sleep it off.

 CleanCut, 

I will try explain in a way that you may be able to understand.

-

What is 1+1?

1try +1try= 2 tries scored (10 points)

-

What is 2-1?

2tries scored (10 points) -1 try conceded (-5 points) = 1 Try. (5 points difference)

-

Can you understand that if you score more points than your opposition scores against you, that makes you the winner? 

-

If 2 wings are equal and one is heavier, then choose the heavier player.

A wing is on the field to score tries- this is their key requirement, not to defend which is a secondary requirement.

It is the same as a scrumhalfs primary job is to be able to pass, not defend.  Otherwise why not just put a loose foward at wing and scrumhalf as their defence will be better.

Is it possible ... that one can actually find a moron in such an advanced state ... walking around in society ... amongst us ... without some kind of restraint on ... ???

Is it possible...???

I never thought so ... till now..

Goes to show what is let out on the streets these day. No friggin wonder our country's in the state it is.

Sharkbok .... you are probably the singles most moronic person I have EVER come across!!!

Is it due to inbreeding, perhaps??

 Valiant effort SB, but it seems it is futile. 

some nice math there. I never could get past the 1+1 think. it all makes sense to me now, appreiate it. :)

Liked the look of this kid especially after he saved the baby boks from an early exit to the comp.

Reminds me of dual international Billy Whizz .Named after a character in the British Comic Beano - also known as

Jason Robinson