@ Clevermike

 Good luck BL.....here's hoping the penny drops!

 One has to wonder about Mike, I remember him rubbishing Fourie Du Preez after he watched him in a test at Twickers. If FDP isn't one of our finest then it begs the question who is?

 Agreed..De Jongh's break early in the game against the Brumbies was better than anything JJ can produce. I have maintained from day 1 that De Jongh is our best allrounder at 13 currently. I do think he has not shown what he is capable of for the Boks yet but then again, neither has Lambie and I think it is all mental.Imagine starting a game for the Boks knowing that you are not the first choice but only filling in. You probably only have one chance and if you dont set the world alight, you wont be there next week.
I bet if you tell De Jongh he will start at 13 for the next 3 games, you will see a different player! Definitely see something better than we have with JJ...
Mike is very respectful which is why I dont wana attack him personally but I really hope he gets over his sincere hate for Frans and sees exactly how good he is.

De Jonghs outside gap break against the Reds was today was superb, as was his try saving low tackle from behind.  

 I love the way Mozart bestow the rating of "excellent" to players.  Since I watched the cricket - I did not watch the rugby yesterday afternoon - I will have to watch the replays tomorrow before I can really state whether the Excellent ratings to my mind are justified.  Meantime I had a look only at the stats and there was one consistency in there in respect of Francois Steyn - he still have a tackling/defense problem.   And he still donates penalties to the opposing team:-

teyn0/031/4/71400109/40/030/0 I say consistency inasmuch as combined with previous matches he has now given away 10 penalties to the opposing sides and his missed tackle ratio  was 30,8% - whereas in all matches played before the game yesterday it was 23.6%. 
Both those figures do not reflect an excellent rating at all., but I will again do a criticial analysis of his performance and those of the other players mentioned and will then look at things objectively and not in a prejudicial manner so obvious with Mozart.       

Prejudicial ....hmmm....I would say prejudicial is dumping on a player when he received the MOM. 

 Mozart
I do not care whom the commentators make MOM - I care about actual performances.  Do you dispute the fact that Steyn -
*   missed the tackles referred to by ESPN and other statistical sources; and*   gave away the penalties as mentioned likewise?
 

 Sure, but you don't have a grasp of what was happening out there. The Tahs tried to dominate physically... Horne's hit of Fransie was equivalent to a punch in the face. Potgieter was charging through in 10 and 12 channel. The biggest reason the Sharks backs weren't dominated was Steyn....he put in some huge tackles and monster clearing kicks. He also knocked one over from 52 metres.
But if you want to play numbers check out Alberts' stats.

Mozart
One "monster"  penalty kick and some huge tackles are OK - but was he consistent in that?   You still have not lost the ability to describe ordinary tackles as "huge tackles" and your flowery language is not a norm to determine real performances.
My question asked is simple.  Since I did not watch the games in question  I asked whether the stats were correct or not.   Can you please give a straight answer - without the Mozart type of descriptions to hide the truth.
I did have a look at the Stats of Alberts.  I always said he is a tight 5 player - not a loosie.   Statistically he did very well as a lock - but will reserve further comments until I saw the games.

Statistics are only relevant where the variables are comparable. That's the point you are missing. A Fransie hit is a very different thing to a JJ embrace. Likewise a missed tackle like that of JJ on Cruden which ended up in a tied  game, is very different to letting a player go who steps inside into traffic, thus avoiding the high tackle. Which is why stats are only an aid, not proof.

 Mozart
"Statistics are only relevant where the variables are comparable."  

So when it suits your purpose statistics are acceptable - when not - stats are not to be considered.   
This has nothing to do with a JJ embrace.   I do not like JJ" tackling technique.   It has everything to do with whether Steyn routinely misses tackles or not.    That is the issue here.   It also have to do whether Steyn gave away penalties to the opposition and why does it happen..
I do not think that stats should in fact be utilized as a norm to consider in respect of individual matches - but they should indicate a trend in performances over a series of matches. Over a series of matches Steyn up to round 6 missed 23,6% of all attempted tackles - in round 7 it was 30.8%.   Up to round 7 Steyn gave away 7 penalties - a regular occurrence in each game he played in - in round 7 he gave away 3 penalties.   So there is a clear trend in his performances. namely -
*  he misses tackles regularly; and*  he gives away penalties too frequently.
That raises the quesstion - why is he missing tackles?   Is it for instance because of a speed deficiency?   That seems to be the answer if you take into account the fact that Harris and De Klerk ran around him as if her was not there.   Is it because of poor technique?   I do not think so.  Comprehende?
If one bears in mind the four tackles he missed in the WC final in 2007 - as well as his history over the past two years - it is clear that that tackling problems is an aspect of Steyn's game that always was questionable.
The penalty issue is equally important.  To regularly give away penalties indicates a deficiency.   To average giving away 2 penalties per game is outrageous - so why does it happen?  I do not think the answer is always clear and that is the type of thing that could perhaps be discussed and clarified on this site on a reasonable basis without the idolizing factor.            
Insofar as the penalty issue is concerned the answer may be the way he carries balls.   He has a tendency to put the ball under his left arm and when he is tackled he cannot released the ball - it remained pinned there.  That may be the answer - but only an actual study will determine why it happens so regularly. 
Be it as it may - to describe the performance of Steyn on Saturday as excellent is stretching issues to quit e an unbelievable extent.

 Mozart
"Statistics are only relevant where the variables are comparable."  

So when it suits your purpose statistics are acceptable - when not - stats are not to be considered.   
This has nothing to do with a JJ embrace.   I do not like JJ" tackling technique.   It has everything to do with whether Steyn routinely misses tackles or not.    That is the issue here.   It also have to do whether Steyn gave away penalties to the opposition and why does it happen..
I do not think that stats should in fact be utilized as a norm to consider in respect of individual matches - but they should indicate a trend in performances over a series of matches. Over a series of matches Steyn up to round 6 missed 23,6% of all attempted tackles - in round 7 it was 30.8%.   Up to round 7 Steyn gave away 7 penalties - a regular occurrence in each game he played in - in round 7 he gave away 3 penalties.   So there is a clear trend in his performances. namely -
*  he misses tackles regularly; and*  he gives away penalties too frequently.
That raises the quesstion - why is he missing tackles?   Is it for instance because of a speed deficiency?   That seems to be the answer if you take into account the fact that Harris and De Klerk ran around him as if her was not there.   Is it because of poor technique?   I do not think so.  Comprehende?
If one bears in mind the four tackles he missed in the WC final in 2007 - as well as his history over the past two years - it is clear that that tackling problems is an aspect of Steyn's game that always was questionable.
The penalty issue is equally important.  To regularly give away penalties indicates a deficiency.   To average giving away 2 penalties per game is outrageous - so why does it happen?  I do not think the answer is always clear and that is the type of thing that could perhaps be discussed and clarified on this site on a reasonable basis without the idolizing factor.            
Insofar as the penalty issue is concerned the answer may be the way he carries balls.   He has a tendency to put the ball under his left arm and when he is tackled he cannot released the ball - it remained pinned there.  That may be the answer - but only an actual study will determine why it happens so regularly. 
Be it as it may - to describe the performance of Steyn on Saturday as excellent is stretching issues to quit e an unbelievable extent.

clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 9961 RE: @ Clevermike
March 30, 2014, 03:18:32  I love the way Mozart bestow the rating of "excellent" to players.  Since I watched the cricket - I did not watch the rugby yesterday afternoon - I will have to watch the replays tomorrow before I can really state whether the Excellent ratings to my mind are justified. 

So, I guess you will also not be able to give us an update on the French Top 14 and the way their coaches "are thinking" either.............

Michael still has trouble analyzing tackles. He cannot tell us who tackled whom, from where, in what way, what the context was (cover tackle, deceptive play in a structured move); he just throws numbers at you. Numbers which he hides in his basement and tortures in a manner befitting of Rambo II until they confess the real truth. He then drags them by the throat and splats it on the screen and expects us to be impressed. No, this game is getting old too quickly.

de Jongh has never let the side down at 13. In every test he has played he has offered more than JJ, Taute and the rest. In fact, even Kirchner in the 2010 test against Ireland was better at outside centre than JJ! I just cannot see what Meyer is doing with these no hopers. If he wants to bring back Fourie to shore up the defence that he obviously realizes is porous with JJ, then what is the gripe with Juan? Was he not flawless under pressure on the EOYT? Yes.

As per Frans, I don't even need to comment, everyone in the know knows he is a gem.

 Dim Tzu
Did you watch any of the two tests De Jongh played in the EOYT in 2012?   On De Jongh you made the following comments:-
"Was he not flawless under pressure on the EOYT? Yes. "

The First ball passed to him in the Murrayfield test he knocked on.  Thereafter he did squat the whole test.   In the Twickeham test he went AWOL and did squat in the whole test.
Flawless he was in doing nothing in the two tests at all.  So go on spreading rubbish on this site.
Then there is your desperate effort to divert attention away from the tackle issue.  You try and justify the issue of missed tackles by trying to divert all misses to exceptional circumstances.   That is bullshit.  90% of tackles are routine tackles and there are really no excuses for same.  They are missed because of a variety of reasons.  None of Steyn's misses for instance are due to exceptional circumstances - it has to do with deficient speed and ill-timing of efforts.
I love the way you support Steyn - but in reality his performances are going backwards in each game he played in this year.   He gets worse as time goes by.   His Foxsport rating has gone down too.   Despite his kicking at goal  which earned him a total of 27 points and a reasonably good first game - which earned him 22 points - he is now the no 32 center in Super 15.   There are 31 centers with better performances than him.   Am not surprised at all about that.  His general play was atrocious.  The opposing teams love the way he hand over ball possession and donate penalties to them.