FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Coetzee ... and his mandate ...

Coetzee ... and his mandate ...

Started by CleanCut21 REPLIES966 VIEWS· 25 Sept 2017, 17:53
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
25 Sept 2017, 17:53
#1
25 Sept 2017, 17:53#1

Coetzee selects his players using a carefully put together strategy. His focus is on the quota ... that is the mandate he's been given ... it's something dear to him ... he believes in transformation ... he himself was a quota back in the day ... with Jake as head coach. 

The only way he can pass the quota off as acceptable is to surround them with players of like incompetency. Anyone sub-standard would suffice ... so in comes the useless midfield of the Bulls. The worst SA franchise in this years SR. They won't expose Rhule as a chump as they're chumps themselves. Besides ... they're white so we the white fan should be happy, right?

Bringing in Rohan and Vorster would upset the fine chump balance. They would stand out ... head and shoulders above the carefully selected white chumps and subsequent quotas. What if people noticed this? Would there be an outcry? Would questions be asked? They may be forced to change not only the midfield but it could spread to the outside backs too ... perhaps even threaten Jantjies.

They can't even afford to have one of Rohan or Vorster on the bench as cover. Too risky. It's better to have the same chump type on the bench ... someone who can blend in with the rest ... so in comes De Allende. Chump De Lux.

Dropping Rhule would mean bringing Combrinck in. The public have called for him. That's a problem. He can not only defend but he's good under the high ball. He can match Rhule for pace. He reads the game better. He has better running lines and his work rate is vastly superior to the quota Rhule. He's even been seen to run over defenders and score stunning tries created from nothing ... and ... he can kick. Best not bring him in. What to do ... what to do?  The only solution is to keep Rhule in. That way the Combrinck threat is nullified.

They would be opening doors all across the team if they were to give way to selecting the superior players. It would put the spotlight on other quotas. What would happen if Acker vd Merwe was brought in? That would most certainly expose Bongi to the puiblic as a quota chump. Then they'd have to explain why Cassiem is in ... and why Du Preez can only manage a spot on the bench ... why Kolisi is selected ahead of Jaco Kriel ... why Dan Du Preez can't even get a start.

Wilco Louw is just another example. He was summonded ... but there was never any intention of playing him. That would ruin Nyakane's image. The public would see him as the undeserving quota that he is. Beast could easily be the next target ... and before you know it we have a lilly white team challenging the All Blacks for the number 1 spot in the world.

Coetzee selects his team of chumps in such a way that he can hide the quota. Most fans have been duped and so fill the stadiums in support of Coetzee's mandate, unbeknowing .

We will never see the best running out for us again.

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
25 Sept 2017, 18:16
#2
25 Sept 2017, 18:16#2
 CC
I must agree with you re the above.   Take for instance the following comments qas to Rhule in a recent newspaper report-
"‘Don’t forget how good Raymond was against Australia [in Perth]. I’m not a coach who will look at one poor performance and chuck someone away. He was outstanding against the Wallabies."
 So lets look at Rhule's  stats to see id they confirm the above statement:-
 Attack
Kick                       =    0    Pass                       =    3Run                        =    2Meters gained          =   8Line Breaks             =    0Defenders beaten    =    1
Defense
Tackles made          =   12Tackles missed        =    5
Either Coetzee thinks we are idiots that can be bluffed easily or he does not know anything about rugby or he is an outright liar about performances id players,  
However, why stick with Rhule when he could pick Nkosi.   In any event the man is doing even more damage to SA Rugby than  his predecessor,   



 
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
25 Sept 2017, 18:24
#3
25 Sept 2017, 18:24#3
 
Not that I put much faith in stats  ... but that does make for some interesting reading, Mike.

Our cricket was used to develope this selection process.





AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
25 Sept 2017, 20:42
#4
25 Sept 2017, 20:42#4
CC, I agree with your sentiments regarding merit selections and as a non-white South African, I find them incredibly degrading and I think that it just reiterates the cycle of putting people into categories. Players should be picked on merit, end of argument, it's completely unfair and racist to suggest otherwise, and World Rugby is a disgrace for turning a blind eye to this. It was racist when National Party judged based on colour, and it's still racist now the ANC are doing the same.

However the problem with AC is more than just quotas....

He's simply a bad selector, and a lot of that is not to do with the requirements he has forced on him
For instance - players like Kriel, Hougaard, De Allende (I may be wrong here, he might count as non white?), Pollard have all done nothing in recent games to justify selection.


In the same way that Cassiem, Rhule, Bongi, Paige and Trevor haven't - But if it were a quota problem there are plenty of more deserving black players back home

Ideally we would just pick the best team available to us, but unfortunately we can't, he could still improve it though...

Gelant, Combrinck, Am, RJVR, Nkosi (Gelant is raw but he's talented, and his lack of a kicking game could be fine as with Ruan in the backline he could dovetail with Gelant)

Am has been very impressive, he looks a solid 13 and deserves a chance, and Nkosi has looked good too. Even Makazole Mapimpi. 
I'm not denying that there are some absolutely obvious quotas in the team (as stated above) but some who you suggest I don't think are and deserve to have been picked in the first place. (even if they deserve to be dropped now) ...

Kolisi had a very good season for the stormers and internationally (AB test aside) he's had a good year, he runs excellent lines and has had some crucial offloads at times. 

Skosan, who deserves to be dropped now,, earned his spot in the first place with a great super rugby season where he showed good try scoring ability. He doesn't seem ready for the test arena yet after being given some chances but I still think the season he had earned him that spot.

Janjties whilst being divisive absolutely earned his spot because (although with limited and slim pickings) he was the best SA fly half in super rugby the last two years. Where I do agree is that Bosch was thrown in way too early in order to fill a statistic spot even though someone like Lionel Cronje had a great year. 

Beast, you cannot discount having experience on the pitch, he's been good this year (failed against NZ but so did everyone), experience is important, especially with a non experienced pack - eventually Kitshoff will start as he's a monster! (I hope so at least)

So whilst these might not have set the world on fire, just because they didn't set the world on fire, it doesn't necessarily mean their selection in the first place was because of colour.

I would LOVE to see a team like this...

Coetzee, Combrinck, Am, RJVR, Nkosi, Janjties, Cronjé, Whiteley, Kriel, Kolisi, Mostert, Eben, Coenie, Marx, Beast - unfortunately it's questionable if we will ever get to because of political interference.

30 years ago my parents generation would have campaigned for equal rights, and it's damn shame that it looks like our generation will too 
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
25 Sept 2017, 23:22
#5
25 Sept 2017, 23:22#5
Good thread and really interesting to read of how mediocre players soften the blow of quotas. There is simply no competition in the team. I agree that Mpimpi and Nkosi should be in the Squad and on the fringes. These guys need to fight for there places and prove that they can perform consistently in all environments and not just on the dry highveld. I think coetzee is using Hougaard as a fall guy. The guy has messed around by coaches like coetzee. Coetzee has been working with him for 18 months and used him on the wing combined with poor game structure that doesn't suit the players he has
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2017, 01:10
#6
26 Sept 2017, 01:10#6
 Bok coach: Ruan Combrinck hasn’t played a lot since Super Rugby

Springbok coach Allister Coetzee says Ruan Combrinck hasn’t been selected for the Springboks because he simply hasn’t had enough game time this year.

Coetzee omitted Combrinck, one of the standout players last year for the Springboks, from his squads this year, and didn’t add him to the Castle Lager Rugby Championship team for the final two tests in South Africa despite calls for him to do just that.

But Coetzee, despite needing to overcome a poor performance by Raymond Rhule on the wing, was adamant that Combrinck certainly hasn’t played enough rugby this year.

He pointed out that since the end of Super Rugby in August, which Combrinck only played a handful of games since coming back from injury, he had not started a game at his club in Japan.

According to Coetzee Combrinck has not started in any of his side – the Kintetsu Liners’ games this year and therefore can’t be expected to simply return to the side.

“Just on that one. What I’ve looked at since the start of this year is players showing good form, that is the criteria that I used, and at this time after Super Rugby Ruan hasn’t played any rugby for Kintetsu Liners. He has been there for three games and he hasn’t started any of them,” Coetzee said.

“I burnt my fingers last year when we had players coming from France and we spoke about their conditioning and their fitness levels. We are at a crucial stage of our campaign at this point of time. We may not be in the race to win it, but we still have two important games to finish. We have important home games to end well.

“To me if the player doesn’t play, how do we expect the player to perform coming from that area – I’ve coached in Japan myself and with due respect to come from club rugby, to make that step up at national level is different.

“There is one thing understanding and knowing how a player played a year ago, and six months ago, three months ago and the condition the player is in at present. For me I have been following all our players playing abroad very very closely because I learnt that lesson last year.”

Quizzed on why it was possible for Handre Pollard to return via the normal route without any game time under his belt and back from injuries, Coetzee said the situation was very different.

“The difference is that Handre is obviously here with us, with the coaches, training with us and putting in extra sessions with us. He is up to speed with our technical ability, game plan and where this team wants to go. Look this is the first time this year that we have this group together for six, seven test matches and continuity is important, it does play a part. In terms of what we have gone through, we had a substandard game, we are not proud of the last game but we have put that behind us now.

“We’ve buried the Albany game, we have a turnaround strategy. We got together last night and we spoke about the Albany game as a management team. That was the first meeting. The second one was with the team leaders and the coaches have been together. We are disappointed ourselves and our supporters and we want to turn it around and get it right.”

Coetzee contrasted Combrinck’s position with that of flanker Francois Louw, who returned to the side and arrived in Bloemfontein on Monday after some good form for his English club Bath.

“Francois Louw has come back and joined us fully fit. He has come back through a magnificent pre-season. He is stronger than he was before, had three good games for Bath and he has played well. He is ready to play test match rugby and I’ve got no doubt that without Jaco Kriel there that is the type of player that would add value to our turnaround strategy for the last two games. He brings what we are probably lacking in Jaco Kriel, that playing towards the ball and making sure we contest on the ground and not giving teams necessarily that quick ball. I think Siya played really really well as an openside at the beginning of the season, he stood in really well but I could see the difference when Jaco joined in with Siya, and they played in tandem. We saw the benefits from that.”

There may well have been a veiled message to both Combrinck and other Boks overseas in the way Coetzee described Louw’s attitude towards the Springboks. While he never said it, there at times have been rumours of antipathy from overseas-based Springboks in playing test rugby.

“Francois will add massive value and also in terms of his leadership, he has been here, done it before and now at least he not just fitter and stronger, but he is also one of those players who wants to play for South Africa. He wants to play, and he is a guy who phones after a test, and is excited about the new culture in the team. He finds out about the small things, which might not seem to be important, but it is very important to see where the overseas players’ loyalties are at this point in time, and I can say without any fear that Francois wants to be a Springbok still and wants to play for the Springboks.

Coetzee said Combrinck was still in the Bok plans going forward, even though he wasn’t included now.

“Well obviously all the players playing overseas that have played more than 30 games and qualify, are part of the plans. Yes, Ruan could possibly be part of the plans, if he plays and performs and I get feedback, and not guess, not hope. If he is showing good form then he will play. The reality is that players who are based overseas cannot play the last game against Wales for us, because it falls outside the international window. But yes, he is still part of the plans going forward.”

The Springboks included uncapped S’busiso Nkosi from the Sharks as their wing cover, but it is unclear whether Coetzee plans to give Rhule a second chance after missing nine tackles in the 57-0 loss to the All Blacks in Albany.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Sept 2017, 04:28
#7
26 Sept 2017, 04:28#7
 This  guy Coetzee is a laugh a minute - that is if one as a weird sense of humour.   Pollard had no game time for 18 months - but he is in the squad,
Then we have to put up with Rhule - who had a lot of game time and was a co nstant defensive failure,    
Coetzee is fighting like hell to defend his quota selections.      
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2017, 04:59
#8
26 Sept 2017, 04:59#8
 Coetzee is fighting like hell to defend his quota selections.  
Ag for goodness sakes, what does a 50% ANC quota mandate mean to you? 
Those are the term and conditions of his job as laid down by the ANC as laid down by SARU. Take it or leave it......he didn't make it up but he obviously made the commitment when he accepted the job.
Get a grip FFS.
And while you're at it have a think about this will yu??
He pointed out that since the end of Super Rugby in August, which Combrinck only played a handful of games since coming back from injury, he had not started a game at his club in Japan.
CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
26 Sept 2017, 08:38
#9
26 Sept 2017, 08:38#9
 
Nice post, Deddy ...

So you are of the opinion that the sub standard white players are brought in because the coach can't see the talent available? Seriously?? Is it that difficult to see the diffference between Rohan Janse van Rensburg and Jan Serfontein ... or how about Skosan and Nkosi ... or Kriel and Am or Vorster ... or Bongi and Acker vd Merwe ... or HouGat and Faff? The chasm between them is as obvious as the nose on my face. 

I find it hard to believe that our national coach could be so ignorant ... that he in fact could just be a damn fool, blundering around in the dark. I think I would have preferred the deliberate racist behaviour to an absoluite m0r0n at the helm.

Now I'm really worried.

Thanls for bursting my bubble, Deddy.



 

DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2017, 08:49
#10
26 Sept 2017, 08:49#10
 Buddy, it's high time you come to terms with the fact that Coetzee, probably a nice guy, is just plain f*&^0% ignorant....finish and klaar. It's as simple as that.
You cannot squeeze water from a stone.
He was cherry picked by SARU because of the colour of his skin not for his ability as a coach. He also very effectively rubber stamps their quota policy. He wouldn't know a good player regardless of the player's colour.
Now what don't you still understand?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Sept 2017, 09:50
#11
26 Sept 2017, 09:50#11
Denny
I am sorry you got it wrong in your interpretation of what I implied.   He is defending the quota selections he made not in favour of he system as a whole,   He is bund by the politicos who agreed to the system and bugger what happens as to performance of the team.
However - like in the case of the Stormers - his selections are piss poor and shows a total lack of understanding of what players produce.     Take for instance the wings - Nkosi and Mapimpi are a far better options than the present two - but Coetzee is not prepared to accept that he is wrong and is sticking with the BS he produce s,   .   


DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2017, 09:59
#12
26 Sept 2017, 09:59#12
 You throwing up wings as an example, Clean Cut is throwing up centres and hell knows the kitchen sink as well......so what?
Then you go on to repeat what I've already said....he simply does not know. It's not BS....it's a reality.
Live with it....until the WC at least...
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2017, 10:13
#13
26 Sept 2017, 10:13#13
 and just btw Mikey, the below makes no sense at all....
He is defending the quota selections he made not in favour of he system as a whole,   He is bund by the politicos who agreed to the system and bugger what happens as to performance of the team.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Sept 2017, 12:07
#14
26 Sept 2017, 12:07#14
Quota coach and quota selections. The incompetent coach also makes bad selections. EG how the heck does Dreyer stay in the squad - he cant scrum!!! There is NO attempt to pick the best side, coach etc. Results do not matter. Being pasted by the wee abs is fine for these bozos.The degree of shoot yourself in the foot stuff via quotas and outright foolishness on display is truly appalling. 
The only thing that might change things is a huge boycott. Drastic yes but what else will sort this BS out? If there is no answer then  just accept Bok rugby is dead for now and MAY never recover. Time will tell.
AG
AgPleezDeddyClub Pro900 posts
26 Sept 2017, 13:05
#15
26 Sept 2017, 13:05#15
 Sorry CC, it's tough to see especially seeing a rugby powerhouse like SA looking so bleak. I honestly admire your ability to switch off supporting them, it's the right thing to do to not support a racist organisation at the moment, I've tried switching off from it but I keep getting drawn back after a couple of wins
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
26 Sept 2017, 13:20
#16
26 Sept 2017, 13:20#16
 I often wonder what we have done as Bok fans to deserve this woeful state of affairs. Cast the eye 360 degrees and there's not a sporting nation around with our abundance of sports people, facilities and sporting culture who is self destructing with race obsession.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
27 Sept 2017, 19:20
#17
27 Sept 2017, 19:20#17
 There is not enough non white professional players to burn them by exposure in the SA team.

The secret SA must hide:SA has not trained one decent non white players. It is made worse as other nations have, starting with a much smaller pool.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,257 posts
27 Sept 2017, 19:36
#18
27 Sept 2017, 19:36#18
Not enough black players are making it. Not sure why, but so far have been limited to certain positions.
We have yet to see international scrum-half, flyhalf's, fullbacks, locks, or big ball carrying 7's.



RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
27 Sept 2017, 19:40
#19
27 Sept 2017, 19:40#19
"Not enough black players are making it. Not sure why . . ."
You're not sure why?
Do you see rugby poles in township schools outside of the Eastern Cape?
No?
There's your answer.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Sept 2017, 01:16
#20
28 Sept 2017, 01:16#20
Oh dear. We don't see enough players in certain positions....and it's because schools in townships don't play rugby. Presumably in the case of other positions like wing and prop that doesn't apply....hilarious logic.
TH
TheTraditionalistPro4,003 posts
29 Sept 2017, 19:04
#21
29 Sept 2017, 19:04#21
 Since there was no wing nor prop, the logic does not apply.

Not a single decent non white player out of SA, all positions included.
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
29 Sept 2017, 19:37
#22
29 Sept 2017, 19:37#22
 Since when Trad?
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news