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FORUM / RUGBY /  Coetzee circa 2017 vs Rassie 2018

Coetzee circa 2017 vs Rassie 2018

Started by Mozart15 REPLIES681 VIEWS· 25 Aug 2018, 23:27
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
25 Aug 2018, 23:27
#1
25 Aug 2018, 23:27#1
Last year after the Bargie fixtures we had played 5 tests and won 5......this year we have played 6 and won 3. Total scores: 2017 ...Boks 187/ opposition 79 2018....Boks 148/ opposition 151. Bit of a shocker really!
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Aug 2018, 08:32
#2
26 Aug 2018, 08:32#2

Funny peculiar - not ha-ha,   What the hell are you saying?   And why not go back to 2015 as well. After 5 tests played the Springboks won 3 and lost 3.  .The Wales test was n experimental side - mot of he key players were not involved - the same can be said of the third English test.   

My problem is in both losing tests there were players who should not have deserved selection and I think Erasmus is over-experimenting.   Also the sub-standard French and Irish teams sent to SA suddenly becomes the norm.    

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2018, 14:56
#3
26 Aug 2018, 14:56#3
I'm saying that despite playing 4 of our 6 tests at home.....and the two away tests being against Wales and Argentina we have scored less points than our opponents. That to me seems like the worst start for any coach I can remember. Even Coetzee who had a similar 3/3 start against stronger opposition was still ahead on cumulative points 142 to 137.
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Aug 2018, 15:01
#4
26 Aug 2018, 15:01#4

I think England was stronger than Ireland. Argentina are strong. Wales are always a tough match for us. 

There are positives. Structurally Coetzee's team was nowhere. He had no answers to a single problem and players were making very basic mistakes. The Boks are more positionally Sound now. We just need to be patient. It's always the case that when the Boks win Bok fans become puffed up lions, if they lose even once they become headless chickens. The usual demand is to select an entirely new squad and dump the whole coaching team. It's ridiculous. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2018, 15:18
#5
26 Aug 2018, 15:18#5
Well in 2016 we played the same two Bargie tests.....maybe they are better now. We also played against Oz away, surely tougher than Wales in a neutral venue. And I'm not really sure about the Irish vs Pom thing.....that was the Irish team that beat NZ later in the year. The good news yesterday is we had territory and possession. Our creativity on attack was still sadly lacking and our defence looked disorganized, as it's done all year. Am applied no outside/in pressure....as he did quite nicely in Durbs. No need to change much, we don't have obviously better coaches or players, but the Oz game looms asa first year make or break for Rassie.....the High Performance Centre aura is gone.
PA
PakieCaptain17,321 posts
26 Aug 2018, 15:32
#6
26 Aug 2018, 15:32#6

We definitely have to sort out the defense. Argentina has provided a virtual blueprint for bamboozling our defense with a few dummy runners angling in towards the midfield and a runner behind them to take it wide and establish a man over. Big trouble ahead if we keep falling for that little basic ruse.

Another example is the first England try in Bloem, when the midfield also bunched up close to the ruck, they used one dummy runner on Am with Farrell coming round behind him and easy as that they had 2 on 1 outside.

SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
26 Aug 2018, 15:59
#7
26 Aug 2018, 15:59#7
I hope you're not suggesting that Coetzee is better than Rassie.
The Wales test doesn't figure at all, that was a blatant attempt at ticking a box for the unions/World Rugby. Neither team played their starters and was a friendly/practise session.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Aug 2018, 16:05
#8
26 Aug 2018, 16:05#8

Shezza

What else do you think Mozart is suggesting.  He initially -

*  supported the appointment of Coetzee; and

*  definitely tried his best to discredit Erasmus as a coach.

Normal Mozart style - I am afraid.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Aug 2018, 16:05
#9
26 Aug 2018, 16:05#9

Shezza

What else do you think Mozart is suggesting.  He initially -

*  supported the appointment of Coetzee; and

*  definitely tried his best to discredit Erasmus as a coach.

Normal Mozart style - I am afraid.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2018, 18:13
#10
26 Aug 2018, 18:13#10
No Shezza, no doubt Coetzee is an incompetent coach. Which makes it even more disappointing that we have started so poorly. As for ticking the box, the Welsh were also without key players, also playing away from home. Enough with the excuses. We have heard so many over the years......injuries, the coach is new, we are building for the WC, the coach is useless, the wrong selections are made and now ffs ticking the box. All loser mentality. We haven't had a winning mentality since Jake left and I'm sick of all the pathetic excuses.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Aug 2018, 19:11
#11
26 Aug 2018, 19:11#11

So I assume you will stop making excuses for Meyer's last year as a coach and his abject failure in building  a team for the future?

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Aug 2018, 19:50
#12
26 Aug 2018, 19:50#12

So, what selections would you have made? 

He ended with Damian and Kriel. So you approve of his centre pairing. He brought Lood and Steph into the squad. So too Eben. You approve of these three. He also capped Willie and Pollard, Reinach and Coetzee. He elevated Pollard over Morné and kept hanging onto Lambie. Which of these do you disapprove of?

Before you say Louw, Schalk and Victor. These were three of our most productive players. That is a fact which has been laboriously established over the past couple of months.

Clever Mike, I feel great pity for you. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Aug 2018, 20:07
#13
26 Aug 2018, 20:07#13

Rassie already being written off by those opposed to him from the start. Reminds me of MAD Maxine Waters calling for Trump's impeachment from day one of his presidency. Hahahahhahahahhahahahah ahahahahahahaha

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
26 Aug 2018, 20:22
#14
26 Aug 2018, 20:22#14

So  he ended up with playing a center pairing with only 3 tests as a pairing in most matches in the WC.   

You do not know what the word "productive" in rugby context means if it hit you in the face.   Matfield ended up not even being productive in line-outs,    He started losing those in crucial cases.   He never really was a factor in other tight 5 play.   Louw really was never really a productive loosie 0 he was too pace-deficient to be a 6  - should have played at 7.  

That logic is really a bit far-fetched    I approve of all the 6 players Meyer brought into the squad 0 but that does not remotely represent squad development.   a full squad is normally in excess pf 30 players - comprehende.        

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Aug 2018, 20:25
#15
26 Aug 2018, 20:25#15
Not being written off.....being measured for the first time on early results. You can't be for capitalism and not be for results Hasbeen you sound more like a victim, a whining globalist. The Donald would already be talking about firing him....have you thought of that?
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
26 Aug 2018, 23:46
#16
26 Aug 2018, 23:46#16

Well Clever Mike, I know I had to see Esterhuizen once to see him make a real tackle (not a massage). I had to see him once to see him plough through the defence on each carry. I had to see him once to see him offload, getting a teammate into space. I've analysed several dozen Damian games, I have watched many more very closely, and I do not see him play anywhere near the standard as Esterhuizen. Not even remotely close. 

Damian is so passive that he doesn't just ball watch, he loses sense of where he is and waltzes out of alignment, blissfully unaware of the runner put into his space. One would imagine that a person would feel embarrassed and be more alert thereafter, but not Damian, he does it all game and even shows the opponents deadliest runner his back.

I can't believe that so many fell for the hype. South Africans are suckered every time. I wonder who it'll be next year? Some kid will hand off someone in a weakened body position, ad for the next 20 years we'll hear "Dat boi runs it lyk a bozz yo". It'll at least be good for 50 caps. Meanwhile, some poor fool will be doing work and having the media scouring him after each test. He might, G-d forbid, miss a tackle. Thus will be the proof that he was always a passenger.

Disgraceful. I don't know why anyone in their right minds would be a Bok. I certainly wouldn't. I'd take one look at our best players, look at the plastic fans and run a mile.

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