Comprehensive, sensible, flyhalf article

Why there is even a debate or issue on this is irritating...looking a gift horse in the mouth. The answer is clear cut...Lambie. Why must these blind guides set up variables to confuse. It just boggles the mind...if HM does not envaluate this correctly then his ability to determine or even worse his integrity will be at risk. But this is premature...lets hope we can learn from past mistakes and choose a winning combination.

Why there is even a debate or issue on this is irritating...looking a gift horse in the mouth. The answer is clear cut...Lambie. Why must these blind guides set up variables to confuse. It just boggles the mind...if HM does not envaluate this correctly then his ability to determine or even worse his integrity will be at risk. But this is premature...lets hope we can learn from past mistakes and choose a winning combination.

 With Lambie kicking as well as he is there is no reason M Steyn should be considered. Goosen to be the backup flyhalf / impact player late in the game if he is able to stay healthy. 

Jantjies has a lot left to prove before he should be considered.

I agree Matey....perhaps the more difficult decision will be what to do if Lambie gets hurt and Goosen continues to blow hot and cold.

Mozart

Definitely not Steyn - he kicks hot and blows everyting else cold   The most one-dimenstional flyhalf in world rugby- kicking away 80% of the balls past to him - even a schoolboy can pass balls better than he can.

Ou Clever Trevor, I trust that you meant to say that he kicks away 80% of the balls passed to him. Correct? If so, I challenge you to prove that. Here and now.

Bongani, never much to add, but will sit and rip other posters thoughts to shreds.

Here is one for you Bongani. Morne Steyn kicks 80% of possession away that should be held on to and attacked through the hand. I challenge you to prove that otherwise. Here and now.

Take Chris Noakes for example. Flyhalf for the Blues. He kicked 4 balls away last weekend and ran 10 times with 21 passes for a respectable 5.3 metres gain each run. This allowed the dangerous Piutau to amass 166 running metres in 16 runs for a sterling average of 10.38 metres a run.

Steyn was the best of the Bulls back with 61 metres run in 5 attempts for a 12.2 metres gain average. Not bad for a kicking flyhalf so I ask you then, why did he still have 17 kicks vs 22 passes? Surely if he had kicked 5 balls only, those 12 extra runs or passes would have seen the Bulls dominate further. The sad thing about these stats is that this was a game in which Morne played "well". So what is bad then if that was good because to me that is unacceptable that a flyhalf has almost as many kicks as passes! is bad something like 25 kicks with 14 passes! Not all 25 kicks are beauties, at least 15 to 18 of those would be handing possession back to players like Dagg and Jane!

Goosen 9 kicks with 30 passes and 8 runs

Lambie kicked far more than we would have liked too but at the end of the day, had that game been 10 mins longer, the Sharks would have lost in my opinion. We saw the damage the Cheetahs caused when we kicked on to them and they ran it back. Kicking is no good. Its gifting possession away and Morne is king of that. The only thing stopping the Cheetahs from being a major force is that they let themselves down on defence. They get way too loose and unstructured. If they can sort that out and attack as they do, they would be the one team that would find bonus point wins no problem!

Listen ou Bokdrol. Of course you had to jump in to save ou Clever Trevor's arse again. I don't give a flying fuck about whoever's stats. Ou Maaikie said that Morne kicks away 80% of the balls passed to him, and I reckon he is talking kak. I would be happy to concede if he can prove that, but I think I am safe. So run along now and and hold back and put your stats back in your bag. We can get back to that after we have solved this little issue.

Bongani, you add very little in terms of rugby nouse instead you love to cause kak and challenge every poster.

Lets hear something of substance from you. Lets hear what you think of Morne instead of what you think of other posters comments all the time!

Disagree with this. Morne added nothing other than good use of the boot and has been a proved failure for years in terms of igniting the Bok backs - he should never play for the Boks again.

Lambie won the battle of the flyhalves in the first half, Goosen dominated the second half. Goosen showed more enterprise with ball in hand.

Both were good and after week one I'd say even but if pushed I'd give it to Goosen. For the record Catrakillis was good as well and is no mug

morne to me does what morne does kicks his kicks and keeps his forwards on the front foot with the boot. nothing special nothing amazing. just solid robotic flyhalf play. on the other hand people knock goosen for his first game but people tend to forget that he was wrapped in cotton wool until a couple of weeks ago and he wont be 100% on the money from the start. he needs some time to ajust to super rugby. lambie on the other hand was on the money from the start but only due to the fact that his forwards had the upperhand on the best of times. looking towards RWC 2015 we cant go wrong with lambie and goosen as our 10's. all depends on the game pattern on course but if meyer can maybe teleport his game plan out of the 1960's those players might actually show that they can run with the ball.

Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 448 RE: Comprehensive, sensible, flyhalf article
February 26, 2013, 00:27:26

Bongani, you add very little in terms of rugby nouse instead you love to cause kak and challenge every poster.

Lets hear something of substance from you. Lets hear what you think of Morne instead of what you think of other posters comments all the time!

Are you daft or something? I don't give a shit what what you want from me. I have told you that I will wait until I have heard from ou Maaikie, and then we can have a look at your burning issue. Now run along and wait your turn.

Still nothing Bongani. Is rugby even your game? Doesn't seem like it.

Does the PSL not have a blog? Maybe you better equipped to talking soccer because you know nothing about rugby.

Hey Bokdrol, why don't you poke your friend Maaikie to answer, so I can attend to your burning issue. I wouldn't bother you with football (not soccer) you wouldn't understand it, even though the rules are much less complicated than rugby.

Boklogic we are dealing here with a  ss mole too scared to reveal his identity.    Come out of the closet bog ani!

I am with Saff here, sort of, I'd play Goosen without a doubt. He was a little rusty out of the blocks, but he more than made up for it in the second half. And with the time he has been off, his performance was still better than I expected. Those of you with head up bum, that say he is too young and inexperienced, think about this. He has one Super Rugby season, even if not a full one, under his belt, and a couple of tests too. By the time this Super Rugby season is finished, he'll have had more than enough exposure to the top levels of the game to warrant his inclusion in the Bok side. Lambie, well he has it all, I guess, but there is still something missing in his game that worries me. Can't quite put my finger on what it is. Steyn, if he can keep performing as he did on Friday, then he will still  be in contention come time for bok selections...like it or not. I think he can still add value to the Bok team under specific circumstances. In tight, test match rugby, behind a good pack, he is still a game winner. Jantjes, never was, and never will be Springbok quality.

Bluebok, what happened to the Sharks had nothing to do with Goosen. The air in Bloem is way thinner than that in Durbs and it was the first game of the season so Sharks were blowing hard in that period of 10 mins until they dug deep to come out of it.

Remember, the Sharks had two easy pre season games and both played at night. They then went to take Cheetahs on in the arvo in sunshine and thinner air. It all played its toll and Cheetahs are obviously a lot more accustomed to that. Must refrain from making it sound like Goosen turned the game around. It was circumstance rather than ability from Goosen that turned the Sharks dominance around. Expect Lambie to put this flyhalf debate to bed later in the season when the Cheetahs arrive on the shores of Durban.

I do not know why there is such a long debate on the issue of the flyhalfs.  We have two excellent young flyhalfs in the country,   In any test series you will need both of them in the squad and they are both going to play for the Springboks this year - so why the debate.

I say we are lucky to have two such talented players in a critical position on the field of play,   They play a differnet style of rugby when required to do so by the coach.   Both bring different qualities to the game - but both has one thing in common - excellent ball sense.

Yeah Mike, its just strange how all of a sudden, Goosen was the spark that ignited the Cheetahs. It was a culmination of tiring Sharks players that were not game fit, thin air and a Cheetahs resurgence lead by the forwards that enabled Goosen to get more loose with the ball and run the Sharks around. Elton Jantjies would have done the same thing if he was in that situation as would Lambie if him and Goosen switched teams.

They are both very good players but the way some guys talk is that Goosen is lightyears ahead of Lambie when that is not the case at all. Goosen has not been tested like Lambie has nor does he have the temperament of Lambie at this stage in his career. When the Sharks were dominating, Goosen hardly featured and the score could have got big on them and would have if this game was a little further into the season and guys were more match fit. Skill wise, both great players, goal kicking attribute, both can not be faulted, strength, Lambie takes the cake here. Composure under pressure, Lambie again.

At this point in time, Lambie is the best option we have that will spur Goosen on to get better. Competition is king. One thing is for sure and as Mike elludes to, we will have two world class 10's by 2015 if things carry on the way they are.  A team can be good, but never great if they do not have a great 9 and 10 combination. Gregan/Larkham. Genia/Cooper (have the ability), Marshall/Mehrtens, Smith/Carter (heading this way), Du Preez/James. SA needs one of Hougaard or Reinach to step up now and be great! Hougaard unfortunately is not "breaking through" if you know what I mean. He has flashes of moments when he looks the real deal but they not consistently there. He needs to spend time with a real great of the game like Du Preez, Marshall, Gregan and co and really learn the game from a 9's perspective.

boklogic

Sasue is going to kill me for this one - but I think Reinach has a better chance of succcess as a scrummie than Hougaard has.   In the one game they played against each other as scrummies - the CC semi last year - reinach comprehensively outplayed Hougaard in all components of scrummie play.  

In Reinach's first game at Super 15 level - he also showed much more in skills than Hougaard did.   When having to cover kicks by the Cheetahs and he was in his own 22 - he made massive ground making relieving kicks - something Hougaard is incapable of doing.   He definitely have  a more crispy and accurae passing game than Hougaard.    

Hougaard had a nightmare 2012 season and he has a lot to prove this year if he wants to stay in contention.   In a way I have another problem and that is Hougaard's ability to take options.  That grubber kick - where the referee fouled up so badly on Saturday - was really idiotic play.   Any other referee would have given a penalty against Hougaard for putting all his forwards off-side and it could have drastically changed the outcome of the match.    

The crux of the matter is the reading of the game by Hougaard.   His inability to function as a clever reader of the game was what made Meyer drop him as a scrummie - and I have as yet not seen much improvement in that.   In 2012 Hougaard's relieving kicking game was catastrophic - in 2013 he had thus far no charge down kicks - but was still very average.  He did show some improvement in passing of the ball though and was not as slow and inaccurate as he was last year.  To my mind he has a long way to go before he would be acceptable as Springbok scrummie.