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Crap Proteas

Started by bluebok14 REPLIES908 VIEWS· 20 Jun 2013, 13:00
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BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
20 Jun 2013, 13:00
#1
20 Jun 2013, 13:00#1
How monumentally kak were the Proteas in the Champions Trophy? Never mind yesterday's loss to England, but the tournament as a whole. They did not have 1 good performance. I think it is fair to say that yesterday was not a choke, because in the past we have performed well, until it really counted, and then we choked. This tournament we were just crap from the get go. People are probably going to blame Steyn's absence due to injury for the poor performance, but as has been the case the whole tournament, our batsmen were just hopeless. Our tail wagged with a record partnership yesterday adding nearly 100 runs, and even then our score was a joke. It is obviously not the coach, because he has the credentials, so where does the fault lie? I really don't know.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Jun 2013, 13:13
#2
20 Jun 2013, 13:13#2
bluebook I am not sure of Amla on ODI level - he is no doubt excellent in tests - but on ODI a questionable opener - and then we have another opener that should have been at no 3 and is not an opening batter at all. De Villiers and Faf were poor yesterday - but are reliable batters - so that was an anomaly. That brings me to Duminy - who also failed in batting this series. I think the Proteas should look at their batting line-up for ODI's and start developing a player like Quinton De Kock as an opener - might not work out in the short term - but he cannot be worse than the present openers. From a batters point of view they must reconsider having another opening batter than Amla - move him to 3 followed by Faf, De Villiers and Miller. On the bowling front I would never include a player like Kleinveldt in the team and rather look at a player like Philander. They have to start developing a proper ODI team and not rely solely on batters performing well on test level.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
20 Jun 2013, 13:19
#3
20 Jun 2013, 13:19#3
Philander, Steyn and Morkel would have made a difference, but our Bowlers were not the issue. Good point on Amla, in the 5 day game he is brilliant, but maybe he is just not suited to the shorter formats. Horses for courses.
CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
20 Jun 2013, 13:35
#4
20 Jun 2013, 13:35#4

bluebok...to be fair none of the hasbeens performed. i dont think the gary kirsten buddy buddy style of coaching works. was it a choke not at all because how did they choke if they did not even pitch up to play and garys comments show nothing short of poor tact from him.

 

i have never rated du plessis as a player never mind a front line batsman. he averages 30 as a batsman sorry not good enough for me in this format. amla can play but he tends be more a flat track bully and if the situation in terms of run rate is to out of control he has not ablity to clear the ropes. he has one gear and cant adapt. ingram is not a opener. he has the nerve and steel to play but needs more time in the role. jp duminy has never ever performed when the chips are down lacks the ablity to play the big situations and for me cant clear the ropes either. not a odi player at all. test maybe yes.

 

that bring me to the bowling that was so rubbish there are not words to describe it. kleinveldt in terms of his role as a bowler was nothing short of rubbish...he looks overweight and cant even get the ball over 130KPH....he does not swing it and looks more like a flanker playing cricket. at 30 years of age cannot be hopefull for the CWC sorry not good enough. he batted well but that is not his job he is a bowler.

 

the only guys that came from the tournament with any kind of rep still in tact is miller, morris, phagiso, peterson, steyn, de villiers, the rest i am sorry to say not up to standard.

 

i agree with mike the selectors need to start with junior players and start to build them up. de kock should be given a extended run. maybe not as opener but maybe in place of players like faf or the rubbish jp duminy. miller should be moved up so that he can have more time at the crease. he is a real player and can change the momentum of the game.

 

my team should will be ingram, amla, de villers, miller, de kock, albie morkel, mclaren, peterson, steyn, morne morkel, tshotsobe

 

depending on pitch conditions i might select aaron phagiso in stead of tshotsobe. aaron is a great spiiner and also needs more game time.

 

the other thing is the proteas are the international team that plays by far the least odi's so i pressume there is another management issue as we cant build a team if the guys dont play enough games. the other countries play almost double our amoung of games

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
20 Jun 2013, 13:37
#5
20 Jun 2013, 13:37#5

in terms of the backup bolwers marchant de lange should also be in the mix with morris both can break the 140kph mark.....that should be the min that our bowlers should bowl at. vernon is only decent on a swinging tack but he does swing it something that kleinveldt cant do...he only swings to the boundary 2 a over

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Jun 2013, 13:41
#6
20 Jun 2013, 13:41#6

The bowlers missing were crucial. The loss of Kallis is huge.

Here are some comments from Gary ex Supersport:

Why do you think it is the team can perform so well under pressure in the test arena and yet struggle in the shorter format?

GK: If we had the secret recipe to turn it around, we'd packaging it and selling it. We certainly give it our best shot in our preparation. We try different things to go through and things like that. But, you know, it's one of those things. It's definitely a dark mist that hangs over South African cricket in knock-out events. At some point we're going to have to try to cross the line. It's going to require some real charisma and some real batsmen to get over the line. It might not be pretty, but at some point we're going to have to do it to get rid of this mess.

It is an unfortunate thing. As I said, it's not through lack of trying to do what we can to try to lift that. But it does require an enormous amount of resilience, and maybe certain types of individuals that can do it for us.

Buy now!

Q: How much did the absence of Dale Steyn make, possibly to the attitude of the batsmen?

GK: No, we're used to not having our top players playing with us all the time. In fact, that's why we have been trying to broaden the base of our team. We've had some good players come through into the team. We like to think that we can perform with anyone out there. We have to be realistic in the tournament. We ended up with one win. We have been up and down in our one-day cricket over a while.

We haven't been consistent in our one-day cricket. That is maybe because we've explored quite a lot of combinations over the last two years. We've rested our test players quite a bit to try to broaden the base of our one-day team. So there has definitely been an inconsistency to our cricket, and certainly when you play in big tournaments like this and important tournaments, maybe you get exposed.

Q: This is the 8th semifinal that South Africa have lost, only ever won one in the 1998 Champions Trophy?

GK: Again, I don't know the answers to be honest with you. I can only tell you we've given it our best shot to try to overcome it, and we haven't. Whether it's the semifinal, knock-out games, I don't think it's only been semifinals. We didn't play well in the ICC World Twenty20 last year. So we certainly do what we can to arrive in the tournament well prepared. I had shared pretty good expectations going into the semifinal because I thought we were batting really well.

As a batting unit, what do you do? Do you load your batting and try to put nine batsmen on the team, or do you back your batsmen you've backed all through the series and the guys that have been performing for you in other tournaments? The only way I can answer that is I don't think there is any secret recipe. I just hope we can cross the line in one of these semifinal events and turn it around.

Q: Do you see anything going wrong with the players since you've been coaching them? And do you think the team misses Jacques Kallis? Would you want him to come back?

GK: In high pressure games and pressurized environments, you want your most experienced players because they're used to those situations but at the same time, your experienced players can have a lot of scarring from past events. So it is a bit of a tough one. It would be nice to have Jacques Kallis here.

But South African cricket has to move past Jacques Kallis. He's been around for 20 years and been an incredible servant to the game, but we need to find other players and I think we have. I think our strength going into this Champions Trophy was our batting line-up. We focused our attention on our middle-order, we thought with AB de Villiers, Faf du Plessis, David Miller and JP Duminy that we had a powerful middle-order unit.

We tried to bring in Robin Peterson at three and lengthen our batting unit, and still have four seamers. We thought that was our best combination. We did everything we could. Those four batsmen are our batsmen in form.

David Miller had a good tournament. He's been a new guy to come in, and he's shown he's capable of playing at this level. Hashim, AB, and Faf have been standard fixtures on our team for a while.

Q: Are you happy with the depth you've seen, in particular, the bowling over the last few years?

GK: We've tried hard in my two years with the team, we've had 16 new players play on the team, so we've certainly explored the talent in South African cricket. I think there is still more out there. At some point you need to find some stability. We've done that in the test matches because we've been able to. As with any international team, one-day format, 20-over format, you tend to experiment and explore with that. So we need to probably find some stability through our bowling unit.

We tried six or seven units and we need to settle on a few now.

Q: You’re not going to be around now. What would your advice be to the team on moving forward without baggage?

GK: That question keeps being asked! You move on. These guys play really good cricket throughout the year. They're a good cricket team, and at the next World Cup event, how do you overcome it? Well, the guys that are in charge will do everything they can to try to do that. It’s a horrible thing that’s happened.

It doesn't only happen to South African cricket. I believe it happens in a lot of other sports and other industries. It happens to people. But at some point you need to cross the line because people are going to continue looking at you and say you can't do it in that space. That's exactly where it is. It's really tough on individuals.

I don't think as individuals they get emotionally hijacked. It's rather, if they play for other teams, they play brilliant cricket. But then they come to South African cricket, there is this mist that hangs over the team and it's going to require really tough individuals to try to overcome that.

The interventions and the thinking to overcome it mentally, I don't think there is better thinking out there. At some point there just needs to be guys that actually buy into it and say, well, I could use this information, and these are the tools that I can use to not become hijacked in that situation and go make a contribution and pressurized moment which the guys do.We see it in all our other cricket except this particular event.

Q: Resilience? Was it lacking today? And secondly, do you think you've left the team in a better state than when you started?

GK: I don't know if I've left them in a better state because I certainly would have liked to have taken the team to at least the final, which I haven't been able to do.

But did I leave the team in a better state? I don't know. We certainly haven't improved, and that's where the question mark needs to come over me, so maybe it's a good decision that I'm leaving. As a coach, you always want to take the team forward in some way. I think there are some good signs.

We're playing some good one day cricket. We've definitely seen some nice youngsters come through and younger players; but in the big events, we haven't gone forward, no, and that is disappointing. We have to take that on the chin and move forward and work out ways that we can make it work. Certainly we all move on to different journeys and different experiences wherever we go, and we try to give it our best shot. That's all we can do.

Did we show captain resilience? That is a difficult question, because the game of cricket is about momentum. When you get some momentum, things work in your favour and you progress. We certainly said at the halfway mark defending 176, that we wanted to make something special happen. At 42-2 I thought we had a sniff. But then you have someone like Jonathan Trott who knows what to do in those situations…

Q: There is a lot of emotion in South Africa at the moment. The word choke is trending on Twitter. Your take on that emotion?

GK: It has happened again, if we are honest with ourselves. I think we did choke again. At the end of the day, it's a word that we've become comfortable with. It's an uncomfortable word, that we've become comfortable with, and you have to accept that that's what it is. So they bowled exceptionally well, England. But at the end of the day, that doesn't mean your batting should disintegrate. You know what I mean?

So it's a horrible word. It does get used. We've spoken about it; we've been up front about it as a team. We certainly let you and ourselves down today, no doubt

 

 

CA
carpetmuncherPro1,667 posts
20 Jun 2013, 18:31
#7
20 Jun 2013, 18:31#7

jp duminy and amla need to up there rates but jp has never been a quick free scoring batsman. du plessis has a average over just over 30 and he has been involved in numours run outs so i have little to no faith in his ablitys as a out and out batsman. sorry to say.

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
20 Jun 2013, 19:28
#8
20 Jun 2013, 19:28#8

Bean Brain not another choke. The chokers forum is down the bottom of the page. This is a rugby forum and not the chokers forum until Saturday when the mighty fat Samoans kick yr yarpy butts.

Don't want to see any posts about golf either as thats not even a sport.

Brycy explaining the fundamentals of a rugby forum to the cognitively challenged.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
20 Jun 2013, 20:37
#9
20 Jun 2013, 20:37#9

Hi there Brycy, how are you doing. All in three pieces I guess after getting shattered by the poms again. I was wondering when you would be back but knew it would be as soon as any disaster befell us. Of course we think being knocked out in the semis is a disaster. For the kiws its an historic moment getting to the semis. Spot the difference Brycy.

Brycy that fat samoans are going to get pummeled into submission by the Mighty Boks second sting pack. So dont get ya hopes up needlessly.

Hahahahahhaahhahaha nice to have ou brycy back and in his insane mind as usual. 

MA
manceRookie63 posts
20 Jun 2013, 22:03
#10
20 Jun 2013, 22:03#10

Bluebok and Clevermike......your comment re Hashim Amla makes no sense. He is currently ranked 2nd amongst ODI batsmen with an average of 55 and a strike rate of 91. How can he not be suited to one day cricket?

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
21 Jun 2013, 01:13
#11
21 Jun 2013, 01:13#11

Bean Brain yr right. We can't match yr achievements of being one hit wonders in JWC rugby and simultaneously chokers in cricket . That takes real skills LMAO.

Had'nt given you a snowballs chance in hell either against yr fat samoans until i saw some dodgy yarpy ref is officiating as TMO. Probably the same TMO straight from the NZ / England JWC game that stitched us up.

How on earth did you manage to wangle that one as i thought international match officials were supposed to come from neutral countries ? Scandalous to say the least but hardly surprising given yr rugby history...

Regardless i'm picking Manu Samoa will smash that bony arsed palagi team of yours and the Bok coach will have to leave the country in shame...

Brycy breaking the bad news to the faithful but gullible and naive yarpy rugby supporters..

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Jun 2013, 01:52
#12
21 Jun 2013, 01:52#12

What ignorant rubbish, less than a year ago Amla was the best ODI bat in the world.  He has every shot in the book and always looks to score at a good rate. He is one of the first players names on your sheet be it tests or ODI's.

He has an ODI average of 55 and strike rate of 91 and some twits are questioning is credentials as an ODI opener.

 

Its as bad as Beenkop's ignorant take on Matfield

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Jun 2013, 03:35
#13
21 Jun 2013, 03:35#13
I wrote about Amla and said he should not open the batting - but bat at 3 - what the hell is wrong with that? I never said he should be dropped from the team - so linking me to anything else is bullshit of the first order. I said we must look at other options to open the batting on OIDI level.
EK
EkPro1,464 posts
21 Jun 2013, 09:58
#14
21 Jun 2013, 09:58#14

 This whole tournament we wnet in undercooked. It is odd how as soon as the guys take off the whites they become such an ordinary team. Might it be AB's captaincy? Do we looking from the outside in not realise how much Greame Smith brings in a leadership capacity? Are they picking the right players? 

One thing is certain though. This was not a choke, I totally disagree with Gary. You choke if it is a near certainty and you fail. This was just total and utter failure, never where we in any position during the tournament where we could say that we are in a position of near certain success. 

No Choke, we failed, and we failed dismally. No excuses about a mental block or anything else. this was a disaster.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
21 Jun 2013, 11:13
#15
21 Jun 2013, 11:13#15

Brycy my good friend please forgive me for reminding you that the abs have been pumped by the poms both at senior and juniour level. I can ONLY IMAGINE its a fate worse than death and one I hope never befalls us.  

Re the cricket we are the numner 1 ranked test team in the world. I'll take that anyday. Amla of course is an outstanding one day player

As for the fat samoans they will get pumped as usual.

Now relax a bit brycy try and recover your composure etc. You will have to take the senior and junior abs being pumped by the Poms on the chin. Sorry to remind you of it again.  Lets hope a trend is not starting here Brycy?

— END OF THREAD —

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