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FORUM / RUGBY /  Creativity of Fourie du Preez

Creativity of Fourie du Preez

Started by clevermike13 REPLIES285 VIEWS· 30 May 2012, 06:55
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2012, 06:55
#1
30 May 2012, 06:55#1

In the comments of various members on the issue of Du Preez, mention was made that he is the most creative scrummie in SA.   I have always thought exactly otherwise.    Du Preez has four standard plays at scrumhalf, namely -

  *   Pass the ball back to the forwards;

  *   Try to break through himmself;

  *   Kicks

  *   Pass to the flyhalf

Everyone would say that the four options are the only actions available to a scrummie - but that is not the point - the point is how successful and varied these are.    The success rate is in fact not good at all.   His passing back to the forwards is normally after him waving at the forwards to form up - so that he can pass to them - the other side is that the opposition forms up to defend against a pre-advertised move.   Very slow pass follows waving of the arms for a considerable period.  Success rate - near to zero since the ineitable result is another maul situation and the danger of a turnover or penalty.

Tries to break through himself - success rate about 10% - but often resulting in a ball turn over - either through penalties or loss in a maul situation.

Kicks - 30% success rate.   Most times the ball is handed over to the opposition - most times allowing the opposition to turn defence into attack.

Pass to flyhalfs  - extremely slow service forcing the fklyhalf - especially Steyn - to stand back a long distance and then having to kick - since any back line move would stop before gaining any ground.

Over years - Du Preez displayed one other problem that has been disastrous, namely his absence when the balls are turned over in  a maul situation.    He would often be far back to receive a kick and to shine in subsequent play and not being available to receive a ball after turnover and pass it.  Result on a number of occassions during crucial matches he caused a loss of the ball and consequential tries.

I never rated Du Preez as a creative player - he definitely is not.   He has been good when the forwards dominated against weaker teams - he was too slow a link player against stronger opposition.   His performances peaked in 2007 and then started going backwards.     By 2011 he was NOT the best scrummie in SA - but he remained as De Villiers tried to do the impossible - that never happened before.   He tried to use basially the same players in 2007 and 2011 to win the WC.   He did not develop further as his career got  longer - he in fact went backwards becoming slower and slower in service to the back line in particular.   Point is that together with Morne Steyn and Du Preez  the result was that the main purpose for the back line was decorative and for defence purposes only - back line attacking play under these cricumstances was virtually non-existent. 

The problem with Du Preez basically was also his predictability.   he was certain always to do the four actions mentioned on an utterly predictable basis - and the opposition was able to do the necessary adjustment in their defences - beause there was no ways that he would change tactics suddenly.  He would kick or pass back to the forwards 90% of the time and 10% pass back to the flyhalf to kick.  

I think that at this stage Du Preez is a player well past his sell-buy date and he - together with other rugby geriatrics like Rico Gear and other players in their mid-thirtties are playing in the less demanding Japanese environment - beause injuries to older players in international competitions become more pronounced than earlier in their career.   That does not bode well for further inernational selection.

In summarising - DU PREEZ IS PROBVABLY ONE OF THE LESS CREATIVE PLAYERS - WHO PLAYED FOR THE SPRINGBOKS  AS A SCRUMMIE DURING THE PERIIOD SINCE THE 1950's.   

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
30 May 2012, 08:15
#2
30 May 2012, 08:15#2

Cant believe that boks would even consider NOT using Hougaard as first choice no9.......  and now bringing Pienaar will that bump him the 3rd choice...? What am I missing here????

Du Preez was good a few years back with ELVs and Boks up and under tactics but surely, surely you'd be looking toward the future and from an objective POV Hougaard is equally best half in the world atm.

Anyway seems like a case of John Smit v Bismark all over again... (basically everyone other than you guys can see who the better player is)

On saying all this we havent seen Deans' starting wallaby XV v Scotland and Wales yet but I rekin there'll be some surprises too...

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2012, 09:23
#3
30 May 2012, 09:23#3

redsmand -100% correct on your comments on Du Preez and I believe being from an outsider looking at SA Rugby shows a better insight than some of the South Africans would admit.   Now for some comments on the Aussie team.   I think Beale is out injured - not so?   if he is available I would say thet he should be the full back.   I have not been impressed with Cooper since his return from injury and maybe is not match ready yet.   

On the whole I believe that there are some of the younger players coming through that should be considered.    Is O'Connor fit after injury?

 I think there are some certainties in selection.   I would say those are - if available - Beale., O'Connor, Cooper ( I would go for Barnes  - but he may be brought in at 12 rather than 10), and Genia.

Amongst the forwards I would think that Horwill is a certainty as captain as well - but I would not get into further debate on the forwards.

 

RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
30 May 2012, 10:37
#4
30 May 2012, 10:37#4

@clevermick - O'connor injured till after June series v Welsh. Horwill likely gone for season - not sure if you saw his hammy / ACL injury on weekend.... REALLY nasty to same leg injured 2 seasons back. This is MASSIVE loss for Wallabies. Agree Cooper is underdone - would have liked to see him play at least half a dozen Super games - Id say he'll come off the bench.... but never can know.

Basically depth will be tested v Wales - but hopefully will get some of top players back before Tri-Nations. A number of good young outside backs and loose fwds but serious shortage of quality no8s / locks / 58 - Front row for once is looking OK too...

US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
30 May 2012, 15:02
#5
30 May 2012, 15:02#5

This is one of the most laughable posts I have ever witnessed. I keep hearing you use the word fiction to describe others yet when pressed you have offered nothing that hasn't been easily exposed. If only there was an ignore button here.

US
UsernamePro1,098 posts
30 May 2012, 15:02
#6
30 May 2012, 15:02#6

This is one of the most laughable posts I have ever witnessed. I keep hearing you use the word fiction to describe others yet when pressed you have offered nothing that hasn't been easily exposed. If only there was an ignore button here.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2012, 15:40
#7
30 May 2012, 15:40#7

Der Arstokrat - please do me a favour.   Watch a video of any 5 games in which Fourie du Preez played and if you can find one in which he did not delay passing while waving his arms - did not kick aimlessly and did not delay passing to his flyhalf - I would eat my hat.  It is NOT fiction - it is based on fact.    Look at Fourie Du preez objectively and you will find everything i said in his make up.   

The foreign teams knows what his play is like and they know how to counter it - because most of the things are done in super slow motion.   Fourie du Preez contrbutes massively to disfunctional back line play.   he is best left out of any international team at this stage - full stop. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2012, 15:55
#8
30 May 2012, 15:55#8

Mike I agree with you re the slow service and fear Hougaard is possibly a little slow also. It is very clear that when Vermaak comes on the bulle backline is whipped away far more quickly.

In recent years Du Preez has seldom made a break as well. His box kicking is good but one sensed the opposition were learning how to counter these kicks. Hi sshoulder injury problems were  hindrance to him an dhe did not exactly set the world alight at the World Cup

I am always willing to reconsider matters but have to say I would really have liked to see Du Preez play  super 15 to make an up to date assessment of him - is he even fit enough to play at test level?

Experience is only one factor to consider it cannot be the be all and end all of things.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
30 May 2012, 16:53
#9
30 May 2012, 16:53#9

There is uinfortunately one key aspect and that is coaching.   I think it started with Joost - the characteristics of Du Preez is the same as those of Joost - nothing different between the two.   I think Hougaard has been taught the same way as the other two.   Bretter coaching would mean a faster service to the back line.   

There is nothing more frustrating than to watch a rugby game and see the same thing over and over and over - with very little to show for it.   Part of the problems against the Highlanders and the Chiefs were the same.   Camping on their tryline - but predicatbility make sure that nobody score a try.  

I cannot believe people do not recognise the ten man game being played - with no variation and believe that that is the one and only way to play - that is why they want Du Preez back.   Any other reputable scrummie has at least three paces faster delivery than Du Preez and Hougaard.  

One dear lady told me one day she did her nails and dried it - before Joost passed a ball - and the Poms loved it - because it neutralized the whole back line.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2012, 17:04
#10
30 May 2012, 17:04#10

F du Preez was definitely at his best in 2007. It's now 2012 and his successor Hougaard has been carefully groomed and is ready to go. Hougaard is a better runner, tackler and clears the breakdown as fast. F du Preez is the better kicker....but then we have Morne.

 

With Pienaar as a substiute and Morne at flyhalf....insisting on du Preez feels like a third insurance policy. Two are usually enough.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
30 May 2012, 18:14
#11
30 May 2012, 18:14#11

I cannot remember the team being announced yet......................................

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
30 May 2012, 23:24
#12
30 May 2012, 23:24#12

You're a glass half full guy Vlag....yep until the side is announced there is always hope.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
31 May 2012, 01:22
#13
31 May 2012, 01:22#13

That is only half of what I am trying to get across. The crux is that it is no use pissing and bitching, or even start insulting each other, when no team has been selected yet.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
31 May 2012, 01:29
#14
31 May 2012, 01:29#14
Very sensible insult each other after the team is announced.
— END OF THREAD —

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