D-Day for Ebenezer's AKA Eben Papzebeth formerly know is Eben ETZEBETH

I'm just playing with Eben's name here. Like some of you have done in the past. None the less, lot of media around his very blatant and obvious thumb in the eye.

Can you believe that this is first red card in the last 10 years in all forms of the game?!!!!

I was hoping he could say somebody tackle his nether region or had a nice stress ball fondall so that he can get off like that Irish twat that got Jan Hendrik banned for 12 weeks, but unfortunately the judiciary panel might not be welsh or Irish like in that case. Even they were Welsh, they probably would throw the book at him.

I'm waiting with bated breath.

While we wait, I thought I would look at Eben playing minutes.

Last season (European Season) 24/15 - Eben only made 6 URC Appearances and 1 Champions cup. That is 7 games for the sharks last year.

This season he only played two games for the sharks.

So if he gets banned, then his game time for the sharks is about right. He might make their last 5 games which put him at an average of 7 games for his club season.

He is probably one of the most expensive club players per minute given how much he actually plays for his club.

Club Games for Sharks and Others

24/25 - Played 7, 504 min avg 72 min

23/24 - Played 13, 775 min avg: 60 min

22/23 - Played 8 591 min avg: 74 min per game

21/22 - Played 13 (Toulon) 823 min avg 63 min

20/21 - Played 18 1121 min, avg 62 min

19/20 - Played 9 574 min avg: 64 min

18/19 - Played 8 (Stormers) 429 min avg: 54

Not good reading, but he has done a great job for the boks over the year.

Except for this Bligh,.

Eben verdict has been delayed until Sunday. Looks like there is a massive disagreement in how long the ban should be.

Given it is Wales and we saw what the Welsh judiciary did to young Jan Hendrik for balls grabbing, allegedly.

Will become a big flash point in rugby.

I think 12 weeks is fair.

But they may throw the book at him which could be between 2 and 4 years. Pretty much ending his career and any chance to play for South Africa again

The fact is I think this is not the first red card in Etzebeth career, He was red-crded before because he had bump another players head in an Aussie test,

I am not sure about what will happen here - 3-month ban would take him ut of the URC and ECC matches - but I was not impressed as to his performances this year - maybe because of the concussion problems he ahd at the end of 2024 and early in 2025.

It may be sacrilege - but I am not sure he will be in the RWC 2027 squad if he does not improve on his performances this year,

DISCIPLINARY UPDATE: Springbok lock Eben Etzebeth will have to wait a bit longer to learn his fate following his red card for his alleged eye gouge on Wales’ Alex Mann.

Etzebeth was due to learn his fate on Wednesday, December 3, following a disciplinary hearing on Tuesday.

However, there’s been a delay following the hearing that went on for nearly five hours since 19.00 SA time.

The disciplinary panel was split in opinion and couldn’t conclude whether his actions were intentional or reckless, which means they could not agree on an appropriate punishment for the most capped Bok lock, according to sources.

They’ve requested more time to reassess the case and reach an agreement on a final judgement to determine Etzebeth’s fate, which could take until at least Sunday.

Wessels, Lood and Mostert all got unfair sentences.

Now it's Ebens turn. Obviously somebody wants a long sentence.

Those who think Eben is pap should look at what happened just before the incident. He came in from behind the maul which was in neutral and shifted it two meters all on his own. I think he has lost a bit this year, but he’d still be my choice for best 4 lock in the world.

As for the eye gouge I maintain if he was trying to gouge the eye with the thumb and his body position where it was, the Welshman would have been seriously hurt.

Erasmus took a lot of pressure off the committee by opining on the matter and saying it looked bad. Most coaches would have been a lot more neutral.TheSouth African rugby press immediately adopted the eye gouge terminology.

No doubt after seeing the Boks obliterate Ireland’s scrum alarm bells are sounding up north and a Eben has given them a diversion. It was incredibly stupid of Etzebeth to ruin a great Bok occasion with unnecessary aggression towards a bunch of embarrassed kids. But was he really trying to eye gouge in front of a world audience?

Personally I think he was hand bagging as he always does, pushing the kid away and his thumb slid up into the kids eye. Only Eben knows what really happened, but lots of force was being applied to the face. If it was directed towards the eye, where’s the injury.

Do I think that Eben wanted to cause possible permanent injury or damage by gouging out the player's eye..... definitely no

Do I think that the video could be interpreted to look like Eben was attempting to gouge the player's eye ... unfortunately, yes.

Do I think that it should be a career ending ban.... definitely no

Do I think that Eben deserves a lengthly ban... longer than 12 weeks......unfortunately, yes.

" Do I think that Eben deserves a lengthly ban... longer than 12 weeks......unfortunately, yes."

After rewatching the video several times, Eben’s hand starts more in the middle of Mann’s face, then as the player turns down and to his right, Eben’s hand moves with that motion.

The thumb ends up in the left eye and makes contact.

There’s no substantial injury, and given Eben’s size, I agree with Moz that deliberate pressure would likely have caused much more damage.

Going for someone’s face in the heat of the moment is definitely reckless. But no serious injuries, shows a lack of actual intent, in my opinion.

DA your focus on intent, raises the question of a possible bias or an emotional reaction, on your side??

DA your focus on intent, raises the question of a possible bias or an emotional reaction, on your side??

Not at all M, I keep bringing the intent point up because I just cannot see how World Rugby can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Eben deliberately intended to gouge the eye... simple

I am on Eben's side with that point.

The action itself deserves a sanction, however, I spent some time today looking at some other well reknown eye gouging incidents and their sanctions, and I am now swaying towards 12 - 18 weeks being sufficient for Eben.

Below are the examples and one even includes a repeat offender who only got 10 weeks, but keep in mind that these all included different mitigating factors..... for instance, in some cases, according to world rugby, a sanction could automatically be reduced by 50% if the player pleads guilty straight away...

Dylan Hartley and Lewis Stevensen - 26 weeks

Schalk Burger and Luke Fitzgerald - 8 weeks, reduced from 12

Sergio Perisse - 4 weeks

Rory Kockott and Chris Cloete - 4 weeks

Pierre Bourgarit and Tom Curry - 12 weeks

Kyle Sinckler - 8 weeks, reduced from 10

Chris Ashton - 10 weeks (Repeat Offender)

Henco Venter and Dan Cole - 6 weeks

Ok, cool. Sorry, my mistake for misunderstanding that. I’m hoping it doesn’t ruin the rest of his career.

Same here, it would be devastating for him

The eye gouge was intentional. You'd have to be very biased or very stupid to see it otherwise.

However long the ban, it gives Eben a rest and he's probably more likely to be part of our RWC 2027 squad now than he would have been if he hadn't lost the plot and if he continued to plod around the field as he's done for the last two years.

A rested, motivated and passionate Eben would be a huge boost to our chances of lifting a 3rd consecutive RWC. His is about the only position we don't have a world-class replacement to fill.

Yes, Eztebeth was looking the person in the eyes before, while and after gouging him.

The balance of probabilities is that he did this intentionally.

So a 280 lb guy with thumb in contact with a player’s eye pushing forward with all his might, directing all that power to the thumb, because Rhonda thinks it’s a deliberate eye gouge… causes no damage.

Now that’s a miracle.

Just more Rhonda logic.. the man who thought Columbus was vaccinated

Grow up, child.

Perhaps you could give us more of your live match thread wisdom….’the score is now 6 points to 3’ …..and then flounce off the thread in a huff when you are reminded that everybody knows that.

ROFL!

So here we have a response from an Irish international:

Lenihan, who commands deep respect in rugby circles, isn't entirely convinced that Etzebeth gouged Mann intentionally. "I’m not entirely convinced he meant to gouge Mann, only he can answer that. However, his response to one of these all too frequent modern day scuffles where everyone runs in, grabs an opponent’s jersey and looks tough, was pointless," he noted, pointing to a broader issue of aggression and intimidation that seems to be encouraged within the squad.

He makes exactly the point I made above….only Eben knows if it was a deliberate eye gouge. The physical evidence only suggests non forceful eye contact. And it was a totally unnecessary bit of aggression. But it’s ironic that it takes an Irishman to say there is a measure of doubt when so called Bok fans on here are quick to condemn him.

Secondly he makes the point that the Etzebeth incident :

’ is symptomatic of a deeper "belligerent defiance" ingrained in the Springboks under Rassie Erasmus' leadership.’

True or not Erasmus showed zero loyalty to the player who has been so instrumental in his success.

What did our ear-biter get ?

Hooly-ha, I'm getting old, forgot his name.

Ear-biters, head-butters, eye-gougers . . . we've had our fair share. Johan Le Roux, James Dalton, Corne Krige, Burger Geldenhuys,, Dean Greyling, Bakkies Botha and now Eben Etzebeth.

They're all very embarrassing for Springbok rugby. To me anyway . . .

TX

The fact that the committee can’t agree on the verdict tells me there is more to the incident than a simple conclusion that it was a deliberate attempt to gouge the eye despite it looking that way

The disagreement could work in Eben’s favour. The sanction will likely meet in the middle of the opposing views

Time will tell - but ultimately it’s only Eben who knows exactly what he was doing at the time and what his intention was. He has either volunteered that or cushioned it to try save his arse

Disagree Rooi, Eben was good last year but has definitely been off the pace this season

For me none of these current 33 and 34 year olds should be at the WC

That’s a blast from the past, blob !

A bite from the past ....... ja

Ha ha ha

Eben is a thug…..einde. Get over it, it was a deliberate act of thuggery.

Eben isn't now, nor has he ever been, a thug.

His disciplinary record speaks for itself.

The worst anyone can accuse him of is handbags. And why shouldn't he get involved when others do?

It has probably happened but, off the top of my head, I can't even really recall a dirty or lazy hit he has made which was high or dangerous.

Trying to put him into the same category as actually dirty players like Bakkies is a joke.

I hope that his punishment is minimal and he comes back and has a good end to his career.

Long after we're all gone, Eben will still be spoke about. And rightly so, he's been a hero for Bok rugby.

Thanks Plum...manteldraaiers is oral...so quick to turn on a Bok legend with unblemished record spanning 13 years! Whatever the outcome of his hearing won't change a thing...greatest Bok ever.

Klop, but he's forever guilty for displaying one of the angriest meanest baddest eye-popping visages in the game.. Like my dog, all jaw.

His clean record will be a factor.

Now, if DDA even touches somebody anywhere above the chest, I demand that he get banned for life and deported ;)

"Now, if DDA even touches somebody anywhere above the chest, I demand that he get banned for life and deported ;)"

Shot at dawn and then banned for life. :)

So what do you do ..... tricky decisions to make when one considers the circumstances

I also wonder if Eben has pleaded guilty and it is just the sanction that they can't decide on.

Plead innocent and possibly face a lengthly ban

Plead guilty and possibly get your lengthly ban sanction reduced by 50%

It's shitty any way you look at it

I don't believe it was deliberate, and I have said that from the get go, but I can see World Rugby making it look like that just on the video evidence alone....

Any way it goes, Eben does deserve to be sanctioned

Damn bloody sad that a victorious EOYT has to be smeared and remembered in the worst possible way ever.

a victorious EOYT

a 6 game grandslam

Bullshit is Eben a thug - his record proves that

He is physical and confrontational, never been dirty and that’s a fact

When Eben is playing well, scoring tries, winning tests and contributing to World Cups, he’s a hero.

The moment there’s an incident, suddenly he’s a “thug” and it’s “intentional eye gouging” or because of a "Balance of probability’s“ it’s intentional Dirty play.

That is textbook double standards. Usually driven by Personal dislike, in my opinion.

Yes, putting your hand on someone’s face in a heated moment is reckless. No one is arguing that.

But rugby is an aggressive, physical contact sport. And it happens all the time that temper’s flare.

In this case, there was movement from both players.

If a man of Eben’s size had intentionally driven his thumb into an eye, the injury would have been far more severe.

The fact that there wasn’t serious damage matters, whether people want to admit it or not.

Calling it intentional without being inside his head is guessing, not Fact.

If disagreeing automatically makes someone “stupid or biased”, then the real bias is already showing.

Each to his own opinion but if the act is not thuggery then pray please tell what it is. BTW I respect your right to disagree.

There’s are those that sit in high office in their pink striped suits who are anti Bok and anti South African, nothing new about this it goes back, way back to darker days. They hate the success of the Boks.

There are Refs about who hate the Boks but then there’s also the tall poppy syndrome. There are those who unashamedly will not accept the Boks as world champions. They’ll pick the moment to prick our balloon and you and me wouldn’t know where it’s coming from.

Remember if there’s a petty scrap it becomes so much worse if it’s a South African who’s involved.

Eben is an outstanding player and has served the nation well.

If a man of Eben’s size had intentionally driven his thumb into an eye, the injury would have been far more severe.

For example, in a recent UFC fight, Tom Aspinal, the British UFC heavyweight champion was in my personal opinion, deliberately eye gouged by Cyril Gane, and if you look at that, it is vastly different to what Eben did, and I put that down to it being deliberate in the UFC case, and the reason why I believe it was intentional from Gane, is because Gane had already tried it twice before the last one, which is what ended up stopping the fight.

I am only referencing this specifc case because of the damage that was sustained by Aspinal, which it has only just recently been revealed, was significant.

Then again, when you look at all the other eye gouge images for the rugby cases that I have referenced above, most of them look quite bad to look at, but I don't recall any of those players suffering any physical damage or injury that was reported afterwards, which could or would have been a mitigating factor regarding the sanction, so it's all very much up in the air when determining how much intent was involved by Eben and how much he wanted to specifically target the eye area and not just grab the face area in general and move over to the eye with the movement of Mann's head coming up to Eben..

If Eben had wanted to seriously dig his thumb into the eye of Mann with full force, I think Mann and the Welsh team would have already made much more of a issue about this by now, because there would have been signifcant damage to the eye, as in the Aspinal case, which I can only assume they would already have reported in the media..... but the problem still is, watching the video in slow-mo..... before you even start seeing the eye of Mann in the frame, as the head comes up in the video, all it is showing is Eben already turning his thumb directly into the eye itself...... which is not good for him at all.

Yes, Eben is an aggressive player on the rugby field, but he is not a criminal.

Thuggery refers to violent, aggressive behavior, usually in relation to criminal intent.

His record so far does not show him to be a ruthless or dirty player who deliberately breaks the rules with malicious intent.

Here's the thing, boys. That footage has been slowed down to a crawl. On that super slowmo it looks nothing other than deliberate. Unfortunately there is no normal speed video of that angle, but if you speed it up in video software to roughly 6x, which looks about normal speed or just under, you can barely see the eye gouge. It's over that fast. In the super slowmo it looks like he is burrowing into the eye socket for just under 3 seconds. At normal speed the contact of the thumb to the eye is a split second - it looks like Eben is pushing Mann away and gets his thumb in the wrong place. A far cry from, for example, the Schalk Burger eye gouge.