Dave your thoughts on ....

....Jantjies. I remember you held onto to his potential long after most gave up. Do you still think he is the inc.umbent for 2017. And while you are about it, please opine on the rest of our Welsh test starters. Frankly I would retain none of the backs and only Beast, Stephanie and Casseim among the forwards. The rest were poor, although Adriaanse scrummed well. Views?

 The views is to forget about SA rugby to focus on ways to bring that misery to an end.

Resources are lacking in SA to bring the necessary refoundation to SA rugby.

It is time to call it a day.

 Dave hung onto Jantjies long after it was proven he was not of test standard, same as how he clung to Pierre Spies and that dud winger who left WP to play for the Bulls, forget his name....sorry pal but we all suffer blind spots, all of us get it wrong,  some more than others.

 I never really rated Jantjies and saw some real problems in him from 2012.   I think the real problems are -
*    he cannot take pressure and when pressure is applied he fails; and
*    he is a manufactured player who knows what is effective - but then overuse moves resulting in attacking play becoming predictable  and easily contained.
I never rated him as being test quality and differed with Dave on the guy for years. .  

Oh without doubt Jantjies would be my starting 10 given how brilliant he was for the Lions. He was simply sublime and only an utterly useless coach like Coetzee would fail to mirror the Lions style of play that brought out the best in players. You have to be pretty naive to judge any player playing under Coetzee, hell even a class act like Etzebeth was a non entity under Coetzee who served only to suppress and demoralise the players as a whole. As for our players I'll say this one more time....we have more young class talent than we have ever had....give the job to Dave Ronnie with Ackerman as his assistant and we would see the same turn around we saw Eddie Jones deliver with England. Faf, Jantjies, James v Rensburg, Frans Venter, Ulengo, Combrink etc are all test quality by some distance. as per usual you get it wrong wanting to retain past it Beast and nobody Cassiem. The issue is Coetzee but if we are to look at players no longer worthy or just never been under Coetzee it would have to be Habana ,JP, de Jong, Morne,Paige, Beast, Adriaanse (joke of the year), Louw, Cassiem and Alberts. I think Jantjies is brilliant what he brings to the game cannot be taught

@Mike "he is a manufactured player who knows what is effective - but then overuse moves resulting in attacking play becoming predictable and easily contained." Mike about think that you need to share this bit of information with the SR coaches since all but a very select few managed to "contain" him. I fully agree with Saffex. How many of SA's very best players, guys who would strole into most national teams, looked dreadful this year? Just about all of them. How did Lambie and Steyn perform? While we are at it, can somebody please explain to me where Jantjies get this the choking tag from? I've been watching him for some time now and I can't recall a game where he specifically chocked under pressure. Yes the Lions lost the SR final, away from home against a team that no other SA team would come close to beating. Is that our example? Prior to that I remember Marmite(autocorrect but thouht I'd leave it, seems fitting) Boshoff choking in the CC final a few years back. Please point me in the direction of the instances where Jantjies has failed in crunch games. Saffex is correct. Jantjies is still our best option at 10. Had the best SR season of any other SA 10 and was no worse than anyone else. Considering what a shambles our forwards have been under Coetzee, it's no surprise that Faf and Jantjies did poorly. They were constantly under pressure and receiving back-foot ball. Manufactured players? Can you explain this statement? Has he not played in the back line and mostly at 10 for most of his career? Once he receives a certain amount or coaching does he then become manufactured?

Pollard is a class act and offers something different to Jantjies - the two are our obvious choices, with the option of moving Pollsrd to 12 as England have done with Farrell. Pollard is far more gifted than Farrell is though

 Kleintjie Carel will also make his claim this season.

Dave the issue is not Coetzee.....bad as he is. The issue is the style that Jantjies plays, deciding at the last instant where the ball is going. It confuses his fellow players....and can only succeed against a defence without line speed. In the Super final and all the tests where line speed was a given, Jantjies failed, Just as Cooper, his role model, has always failed under pressure. And Jantjies has shown time and again he is a fine goal kicker, except when the game is really on the line. The future is Pollard, if he's okay or one of the young flyhalves who are looking pretty solid. Robert du Preez looked damn good for the BaaBaas.

Nonsense Jantjies proved in four wins against Kiwi super sides that he more than has what it takes to succeed at any level. There is absolutely no reason in the world Jantjies along with all our other young talent in SA can't transfer their super form into the test arena. Speed of defence has nothing to do with it its all about the style of play advocated by an incompetent Coetzee . At the Lions, Jantjies has the freedom to express himself and with that comes the ability to set up players around him like no other 10 in SA can do. Under Coetzee he was suppressed standing deep playing the percentage kicking game. But more to the point, singling Jantjies out is laughable given the pathetic performances of the Boks as a team under the woeful Coetzee. The solution is simple....select a merit coach regardless of nationality and we will see the same turn around Eddie has effected with England. Eddie is using exactly the same players Lancaster did bar Otoje and look what has happened. He simple empowered them to express themselves and directed them in the winning way. Players that were no hopers at the WC are now seen as world beaters under Jones. One certainty is that we have more talent than England do so imagine what a Dave Rennie could do for us

Dave I seem to recall you didn't rate Eddie, and now you seem to have changed your mind. I have always thought a coach like Eddie or Jake could instantly improve our performance, it's nice to see you on the same page, at least with respect to Jones. As far as Jantjies is concerned, a whole bunch of Lions looked decent in the S15. But now it's clear Mapoe, Jantjies, Mostert and Whiteley are no test players. And there are big questions about Combrink, Faf, Marx and Kleintjie Kriel. Even Janse was desparately disappointing. I think these Lions may have peaked.