Dave....

 I don't rate HM at all far too conservative and is out of touch with the quality youngsters we have on board. Watching the massively impressive Paul Willemse in action yesterday made me despair at the injustice in having a passenger like Matfield on board instead.
It's a travesty of justice.
A 50 % record against Oz and NZ is not good enough for me. HM must go for we won't challenge in the WC with a conservative coach. 
To think that we only saw Hougaard play thanks to an injury to average Pienaar.
Come next season we will see the return of Jaque Fourie, Louw and Alberts....not to mention Spies.
This with the retention of Matfield, Bakkies, Jannie, Jean, Pienaar  and Steenkamp. 
Did that answer your question? 

 @saf
Mate I agree with you re the Oz/ AB track record. In saying that though, I was really pleased to see Meyer being bold enough to make some of the plays that he did.
It is no secret that him and MS are chommies.... so to drop him out of the match day 22 for the last 2 games was a big call.

Then there is the blind side flanker issue. In Oz and NZ he went against his norm and picked 2 mid sized (blindside) flankers to play together. Sure his hand may have been forced to a degree, but had he stuck to his conservative approach, who knows... we may have had some Currie Cup plonker flying over to Australasia.

Then there is the game style. It does, to be honest, seem as if there is a definite attempt to give the ball more "hand time" and less air time.

I am a big Meyer critic, but I gotta give him his due... he is not stubborn enough to go against what he has tried before if it doesnt work this time round and is humble enough to admit it when he errs (as seen on Boots n' All)

In conclusion... im still not a fan, but i like the way that he has opened up his eyes to what style of play and what type of players to pick for certain situations.

I will back him until he stops doing that or until I feel that we do not have a game plan that can knock teams out. He may stumble upon the way, but so do we all in our day to day professions.

 I'm of the opinion that Meyer is a useless selector but is a decent coach.He gets the best out of what he selects but he could make much better selections.

 Flash , yeah there is no doubt that Meyer has moved away from the kick and chase crap we saw with useless Morne on board.  Bringing a playmaker like Pollard on board forced an initial change but I suspect while he still had Pienaar,  the boot was still going to play a major role.
Injury to Pienaar forced Meyers hand and with it came the ball playing Hougaard at 9, the call I have advocated from day one.
Meyer has been forced to move on and hopefully the result will give him enough courage to go the whole way and remove the remaining passengers in the side in Jean, Matfield, Bakkies and Jannie and to a lesser extent Habana and Schalk.
Replace these players with the likes of Marcel v/d Merwe, Coenie, Malherbe, Willemse, Lood, PSDT, Jaques du Plessis, Arno Botha, de Allende, JJ, Stokkies, Esterhuizen,  Kobus v/Wyk, Senatla and JP has to start.

A perfect blend of experience and youth in a side that's half a year younger than the ABs....every player who could make a difference except young du Toit and Willemse getting a chance. And certainly young du Toit has already been tapped . A fine job by HM and his team....with just a bit of luck we could have won all our games. 

We have more than enough experience in Habana, JP, Frans, Hougaard, Beast, Bismark, Strauss, Brussouw and Vermeulen to form the core when it comes to age. 
That's 9 players to which one can add certainties in youngsters like Willie, Hendricks, Serfontein, Pollard, Lambie, Goosen, Coenie, Etzebeth,  PSDT, Coetzee and Arno Botha. That's 20 players.
Add to that the best of the youngsters in Jessie Kriel, Taute, Senatla, Kobus v/Wyk, Kolbe, Sithole, JJ, de Allende, Andre Esterhuizen, Stokkies, Reinach, de Klerk, v/Zyl, Thomas du Toit, Kitshoff, Malherbe, Marcel v/d Merwe, Nkanyane, Cooper, Willemse, Lood, Lewies, Jacques du Plessis, Kolisi, Carr, Labascagne, Oupa, Mtembu, v/d Walt, CJ and Elstadt and one can see why we don't need to be hanging onto a bunch of old farts who passed their prime when many of the above were still at school

 Hoor, Hoor.

AJ it's so easy to get the mix right and it's what distinguishes great coaches from average ones. 
There are only a certain variety of options available in how the game is played or patterns of play are adopted and executed....rugby is not a complex maths equation....its a simple science.
The art is s electing the best 15 plus a bench to execute the plan every coach is familiar with and able to instruct.
This is what sets NZ apart.....They get 95% of their selection spot on, compared to say the Boks where 60% is a stretch.

 Dave there comes a time in each and every players career that their game falls off with age.
I appreciate and respect the service that the "older" players have given over the years but they must know when to retire and use their experience and knowledge of the game to assist in building the talent available.
Coaching is not for every guy but I would suggest that players like Victor, Jannie, Jean and one or two others could do a lot more to help rugby advance off the field.
Thanks.

 Saffex
 
Status: Hall Of Fame 
Posts: 9705RE: Dave....
October 12, 2014, 19:44:54rugby is not a complex maths equation....its a simple science.
The "selector" with 10 lists of possible Springbok teams that change from week to week.The same clown who predicted losses for the Boks against the World XV, Wales, ABS, Wallbies. 

Sharktwat it's one thing dealing with your rugby ignorance but it's another thing dealing with your lies.
Now do us a favour and fuck off and grow a pair of balls and when you have, come back and attempt to debate rugby with me.

Agreed AJ. Bakkies and Matfield were the best lock pair to play the game but the new generation of SA locks look even better and will surpass their legendary status. They past their best a good few years ago. 
Jean was the best Bok 12 I have seen, Frans Steyn could have surpassed him had he been around more.
Jean was solid enough last year but has been poor this year defensively and resorted to the crash ball on attack. He is done.
In Serfontein we have a 12 with better attacking skills than Jean and once he establishes himself will surpass what Jean did for the Boks.

What possible basis do you have for saying the current generation will be better than Jean, Victor, Bakkies or Schalk. Take Jean he was scoring brilliant long range tries from the outset. Steppie played a whole RC where the best he could achieve was one break beating Horwill. There is no comparison between their starts.

This is all nonsense HM is far more qualified than you Arthur or Cheezer.

 Some of your views though is a bit too centric. Yes Meyers coaching and selections contributed to SA record againgst NZ over the past Three Years. But their are so many other variables and factors to consider. I think NZ the past Three years hv simply got everything right from Top to Bottom, and had an edge. It took SA having the game of their lifes, not to mention a bit of luck . But SA havent had that past three years so they were due. To finnally beat NZ. I do agree that Hansons more often then not gets it more right then Meyer. From a better balance of youth and exp in key posistions. Blooding Retilluck, and now Fekitoa. SA still got Matfeild in their, and I think Jdv needs to bench maybe at best. And Hansons selection policies are more effective.

Um Jean only made a name for himself at test level aged 23, Serfontein is only 21 now and already a certainty. Jean was doing stuff all aged 21.
Bakkies was huge but Etzebeth is already far better. It's a case of working out who should partner Eden.  It's PSDT,  Willemse,  Lood or du Plessis. .........stick Willemse and Etzebeth and you have the beating of Vic and Bakkies once established. 
Schalk was nothing special in his day he in fact looks better these days for he now plays a linking game. In the past all we saw from Schalk was contact seeking.
Most of the young loosies playing today can easily replicate Schalk.

 I think these are the players that should be Boks, or at least pushing for Higher Honours.
Loosies: Lubabolo Mntembu, Nizzam Carr, Jaco Kriel, Siya Kolsi
Locks: Jaqcues Du Pleesi, Stephen Lewies
Its all good on well saying Matfeild shouldent be their etc. In theory theirs better players, but they are also green and they are also unprooven. But potentially Estebeth and Willemse.

Schalk IRB Player Of The  Year....2004.... Age 21. Now go ahead Vetsak, tell us the IRB knows nothing about rugby. 
Jean, Matfield , Schalk and Bakkies are among the best players of the last 12 years....selected for World teams, TOTs and player awards throughout that period. Matfield was the MOM in the RWC final.
These players are the real thing, proven greats....I'd say the youngsters ought to play a little real rugby before we say they are better.

Mozter, I agree that Schalk was a special player, but using the IRB player of the year as a reason why, does not make much of an argument. In 2009 Fourie DuPreez should have won it hands down. Yet McCaw won it after repeatedly having his ass handed to him by Brussouw. That award was a joke and I just have not been able to take it seriously since. The following year McCaw probably did deserve to win it, but didn't, surely due to the fact that he had won it the previous year, when he shouldn't have. 

 SNAPSTER - In Serfontein we have a 12 with better attacking skills than Jean and once he establishes himself will surpass what Jean did for the Boks.
snapster Um Jean only made a name for himself at test level aged 23, Serfontein is only 21 now and already a certainty. Jean was doing stuff all aged 21.Jean was selected for  the Boks at 21.  He made his first senior-level appearance for South Africa in November 2002 against France, but suffered a major knee injury five minutes into the game. After regaining fitness, he became an important player in the Boks' 2004 renaissance, which saw them earn an unexpected victory in the Tri Nations Series that year. Both he and his former Paarl teammate Joubert earned a share of the try-scoring lead in the 2004 Tri Nations, with three apiece.
Jean started on the wing and did exceptionally well. If memory serves me well he was fractioanlly ahead of Habana in the try scoring ranks  whilst playing wing. He had genuine pace. Even today I would back him to beat Jan. I am hoping Jan will have a good international career but doubt he will ever be as good as Jean at his best.

Bakkies was huge but Etzebeth is already far better. It's a case of working out who should partner Eden.  It's PSDT,  Willemse,  Lood or du Plessis. .........stick Willemse and Etzebeth and you have the beating of Vic and Bakkies once established.
Etzebeth is good but to say that he was "far better" than the young Bakkies is tripe. In Bakkies we have one of the all time great locks. 120 kg and fast enough to play at 7. Uncomprimising palyer as wee Thorn found out. 
Schalk was nothing special in his day he in fact looks better these days for he now plays a linking game. In the past all we saw from Schalk was contact seeking.The opinion of a clueless lunatic. "Renowned for his high work ethic and dynamic, robust and physical style of play, Burger is one of world rugby's most decorated players. He is a member of the 2007 Rugby World Cup-winning team, has twice been named South African Rugby Player of the Year (in 2004 and 2011), and was named IRB Player of the Year in 2004, among other accolades. He also holds the record for the most appearances (68) and most tries scored by a Springbok flanker (13)"Snapster do you really find pleasure in making such a clown of yourself?

 Well its kinda biast to say FDP was robbed. Just like if i said Mccaw deserved it, would be biast. Yes Brussow outplayed Richie in 09. But i guess they took all factors and variables into account, and all games. Not just his battle with Brussow. All this is elementary, saying Richie diddnt derserve it is an opinion not fact. Just like saying Kaino deserved it in 2011, in which he did he was robbed. But doesent make the selections a joke by any means. 

 mcaaaw got a couple of RAWs for sure Du Preez and Brussouw were vastly better. 
did they have the likes of a Paddy O'brien and co pulling strings one wonders. 

3ku1, I am probably the most unbiased poster here, I even stated above that McCaw probably deserved to win it in 2010. Even some of our Kiwi posters at the time were surprised that Richie won it in '09. 
I guess it is just my opinion, but that year FDP was in a class of his own, and Richie was not! Richie had had better years before and better years since, but in '09, he was just not the best player in the world!  

Bullshit Schalk was not even the best openside in the country at the time. Schalk was good but nothing special  

 Yip
Schalla was incredible.
hence his nick name "The Incredible Schalk"

In Saffex's defense (if there is such a thing), Schalla was never the quickest opensider...
BUT.........
He constantly put in a huge number of smashing tackles. he would tackle a player and then tackle the next player who the first player off loaded to!
He did / still does put in some barn storming runs.
Furthermore, is it easy to forget all the turnovers he used to make when he played openside?

Look, I would choose him as our specialist blindsider now, knowing that he has the size as well as the skill to be a second fetcher.

But without doubt, he is one of the best flankers we have ever had, if not the best.

Yeah, Schalk was never just average! A brutal, hard player that always made some sort of impact, sometimes negatively, but mostly positively. 
A little like Bismark in that discipline was not always his forte, but he seldom went through a game unnoticed. 

Schalk is a players like Mccaw that can play in all positions in the backrow at international level. He did lose some effectiveness at the breakdown after he fractured his neck. Thereafter he moved from open-side to number 8 and blindside flank. 
Saffex main criteria for judging players is their age, size an weight. A dogmatic viewpoint that prevents him from making much sense.
If two players play exactly the same, the younger one will gets lots of praise from Saffex as a world beater, and the older one is a washed up has been. Same applies to height and weight. 
Saffex keeps a spreadsheet with players ages and weight. Schalk for instance is too big for what Saffex thinks should be an openside. So regardless that Schalk was held in the highest esteem by the top rugby players, coaches and pundits- Saffex will see him as average. Saffex recently stated that Kolisi was better at the same age as Schalk.The same Kolisi who was not even a first choice Supe rXV player for much of the season and has little to no effect at the breakdown. This is of course down to the coaches and everyone else being idiots.

Schalk was an outstanding player when the other team was in possession of the ball but his fearless tackling and appetite for destruction was negated by the fact that he was a liability when his team was in possession. He was one of the weakest ball-carrying loose forwards in Springbok history and it was frankly embarrassing to see such a big and allegedly strong man go to ground on first contact nearly every time he tried to run with the ball.
Mot sure what parallel universe Chippo is living in when he talks about Skulk's "barnstorming" runs but the Skulk I knew would crumple into a heap if he tried to bust through a roll of stretched-out wet single-ply toiletpaper.
He was a hell of a player when scavenging for the ball . . . I'll never take that away from him.

rooitwit be assured you could never take anything away from Schalk. He is, as my post above shows, an all time Bok great. Not surprising you cant see that. 

RooiAAS and Dave see Schalk through their myopic Puke Watson specs. And man were these two huuuuge Watson groupies. Total bias rarely  leads to a balanced view.

 rooitwit's main problem is that both Schalk and Etzebeth play for WP/Stormers.You could win the IRB player of the year every year for a decade and ou rooitwit would still claim you are no good if you were a WP man.