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FORUM / RUGBY /  De Allende at center last Saturday

De Allende at center last Saturday

Started by clevermike24 REPLIES701 VIEWS· 20 Mar 2018, 11:26
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CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2018, 11:26
#1
20 Mar 2018, 11:26#1

The situation on Saturday was quite funny - especially in one case where SBW tried to tackle him and landed on his backside - the look on SBW's face was unbelievable.   His stats in the game was also very good and much better than those of his direct opponent SBW:-


However, there is something which disturbs me in the following article from News23:-


"Damian de Allende hasn't come anywhere near living up to the hype that accompanied him in 2015. 

In the build-up to that year's World Cup, the now-26-year-old was considered one of Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer's most dangerous weapons going into the tournament. 


His hard, straight running was the obvious standout feature of his game. That reputation came off the back of a couple of big Super Rugby seasons where De Allende made a name for himself as one of the hardest midfielders to bring down in world rugby. 


Since then, though, he has moved backwards.   Much of it has had to do with injury, with De Allende losing his edge on attack while all too often he has also been found wanting defensively.    An ankle injury while on duty with the Kintetsu Liners in Japan ruined the start of his 2016 season while another ankle injury early last season meant that he missed the majority of the 2017 Super Rugby campaign too.  As a result, De Allende has struggled to find any momentum over the past two years. 

He was also, particularly after 2015, one of those players who had played seemingly non-stop rugby. Eventually, he broke down. 


It meant that De Allende struggled to hold onto his No 12 Springbok jersey under Allister Coetzee, and that was perhaps a sign of how far things had fallen. 


Now, five rounds into the Super Rugby season, things are looking up for De Allende.   It is early days yet, but indications are that De Allende is finding his feet once more, which can only be good news for the Stormers as well as the Springboks. 

The secret, he says, is feeling refreshed while trying to maintain a positive outlook.


"It’s been going well for now. Obviously, I had a good pre-season. When I came in in January I felt refreshed," De Allende told media at the Stormers' Bellville training complex on Monday.


"Last year I got injured in the first game (against the Bulls).


"I’ve just decided to take it week by week and trying to be as happy as I can be no matter how sore I am."


De Allende then opened up on how difficult last year had been for him, even after returning from injury.

"It was tough for me to come back … more tough because I wasn’t getting enough game time," he said.

"I think that’s where a lot of us get confidence, is when we start playing consistently. I struggled to get consistent game time when I got back last year. I thought I did well to get back two weeks earlier than what I should have, but then I got injured again, unfortunately. Hopefully I can stay injury free for a while now."


On Saturday against the Blues, De Allende was one of a number of Stormers players who had been struck down by the 'flu that week. 


It didn't seem to impact the performance too much as the Capetonians ran out 37-20 winners at Newlands. 

De Allende, though, was struggling after the match.

"I didn’t train the whole week last week and I just did the captain’s run on Friday," he said.

"When I came off the field on Saturday I was buggered. I had to go see the doctors and I got a bit of heat stroke and I was low on energy.


"Otherwise, I’m feeling much better. The nose is still struggling a bit but otherwise I’m feeling very strong."

With the Stormers now looking to build on that impressive performance against the Blues and find some consistency week in and week out, a fit and strong De Allende will surely aid that cause.


They are next in action when they host the Reds on Saturday. Kick-off is at 17:15."


The thing that disturbs me was playing while he was not fully recovered from a flu virus affecting a lot of Stormers players last week.   Playing under such circumstances is dangerous and could have serious detrimental  affects on players, 


De Allende indicated that injuries took their toll in 2016 and 2017 and that he was not really himself at all in those two years.   However, he in fact would not hurt the feelings of especially Meyer and Coetzee by referring to their playing styles that were partly the reason  for his poor performances in the last two seasons.   What Meyer did in the 2015 WC would destroy the performance of all backline players.   From an attacking perspective the ball went routinely from h scrummie to a loosie  who mostly went crashball and in rare instances passed the ball to De Allende.   Despite tht rubbish De Allende was the center with the most defenders beaten in the series,


In 2016 and 2017 all backline players had to contend with a  totally defective game plan and a half-back combination that was seriously defective.


De Allende showed a marked improvement in both attacking and defending play and he is looking like he is getting back the form he was in in 2013 and 2014 - when he was the top center in Super Rugby.   Lets hope it continues in 2018 since to my mind he nd Pollard is contesting selection in the no 12 position.              

 
   

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
20 Mar 2018, 12:07
#2
20 Mar 2018, 12:07#2
My issue with De Allende is his defense. A 12 needs to be a very solid defender. Even before his injuries this aspect of his game was a glaring issue. A lack of confidence can play a role, but as I have mentioned, even when he was on form his defense was suspect. Lastly, I don't see how the Stormers coaching team is going to get anything more out of him. If he were in the Lions setup then maybe we could expect to see him improve and exploit some of his potential, but not with the Stormers. Something like the apparent return to form of Kriel under Mitchell, but his defense is also an issue. I am hopeful that this Super Rugby season will throw up some new prospects at center, because honestly, I think it is time we move past these two. They have both had ample opportunities .  
Both players have good potential, but its now time to "Haal uit en wys" or take a back seat to someone else. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2018, 12:34
#3
20 Mar 2018, 12:34#3

Bluebok

I know there was an issue with the defense of De Allende and Kriel at one stage.  When you look at past statistics De Allende in some games were defective and worth criticism - in other games it was in fact good,   Kriel had the same problem.   However in games thus far this year the defense issue of both has been much better and missed tackles became less of a problem.   For instance De Allende missed no tackles on Saturday playing against SBW and Kriel put in some really bruising tackles against opponents.

The problem, at 12 is that there is a problem with Pollard in defense as well and he also has a history of poor defense as well.   Janse van Rensburg's defense always was worse than De Allende's.

Maybe the excellent performances by Willemse will impact positively on  the performance of the inside centers should either Pollard or De Allende be selected at center.   However, I cannot see where another center combination will come from looking at the present Super Rugby players, 

.   

  

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
20 Mar 2018, 13:57
#4
20 Mar 2018, 13:57#4
Yeah Mike, you're probably right. But this is not a new problem for us, we haven't had a decent bok center pair since De Villiers and Fourie were in form in around 2009. It is a constant issue in SA.   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2018, 14:26
#5
20 Mar 2018, 14:26#5

Bluebok

The problem was that there was no real centers coming through - while the performances of De Villiers started to deteriorate by 2014.  I think that Meyer started  with a string of players in the no 13 position and when Fourie failed in 2014 - he went for Kriel at 13 -  By then Meyer tried at least 6 players in the 13 position.

By the start of the 2015 WC De Allende and Kriel had a total of 23 games as a center pairing,   That - plus the game plans of Meyer and Coetzee - had a serious detrimental affect on the performance of the center pairing.   It was not only the problem of the centers themselves - but the presence of deficient game plans and poor half-backs  that affected the performance of centers.  

Over the last four years we had virtually all the time poor flyhalfs and two scrummies way past their best.   We will  never fix the center situation without fixing the half-back situation as well.    

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
20 Mar 2018, 22:51
#6
20 Mar 2018, 22:51#6
Lot's of tractoring...beating the man but so slowly a loose scrum forms around him. Pretty toothless. He made his tackles, but one only has to go back to the Saders match where he was 7/4 and horribly gassed through the outside gap by Bridge. Now he's back is the cry, but was he ever really a test centre and what's different this time.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2018, 23:04
#7
20 Mar 2018, 23:04#7

And he was in the team of the week of Sanzaar.   Very knowledgeable contributor we have here -massive knowledge of everything bar rugby,        

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
20 Mar 2018, 23:04
#8
20 Mar 2018, 23:04#8

And he was in the team of the week of Sanzaar.   Very knowledgeable contributor we have here -massive knowledge of everything bar rugby,        

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
21 Mar 2018, 07:55
#9
21 Mar 2018, 07:55#9

Mike ... you've been a fan of both Kriel and De Allende since they first hit the scene ... and to see the slightest improvement, is all you need to slot these two useless rugby players back into "your" team of the week. Same goes for Pollard and Lood the Lomp.

What you seem to forget is that neither of them have the slightest idea how to run a defensive line. Neither of them know how to read the game ... not a clue ... and because of it have no idea what's unfolding before their very eyes. In other words ... apart from being defensively inept, they don't have the grey matter to be of any value to their respective teams. Throw their pathetic tackle "technique" into the mix and what you have is a disastrous midfield pairing ... most definitely not suited to test match rugby. 

I know you're trying very hard to come across as all clued up, but if you can't understand the basics of center play then perhaps it would be best to stick to your silly little stats and conjure up nonsense based on what you read there.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 08:37
#10
21 Mar 2018, 08:37#10

CC

I have consistently in recent times left both De Allende and Kriel out of my selections.   However,  there is a serious problem  that cause me to change my mind and that was the fact that Rohan  Janse van Rensburg was horribly poor in defense in the two latest games of the Lions = so bad that in the last game Rohan was moved t the wing - where his defense was poor as well,

However, Vorster came in against the Sunwlves and his defense flopped too.

In the latest posts I in fact suggested that Pollard be moved to inside center with Willemse at 10 and that De Allende be put on the bench.   However, Pollard also have a history of dubious defense and I am at the moment between the devil and a hard stone on that one.       

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 08:37
#11
21 Mar 2018, 08:37#11

CC

I have consistently in recent times left both De Allende and Kriel out of my selections.   However,  there is a serious problem  that cause me to change my mind and that was the fact that Rohan  Janse van Rensburg was horribly poor in defense in the two latest games of the Lions = so bad that in the last game Rohan was moved t the wing - where his defense was poor as well,

However, Vorster came in against the Sunwlves and his defense flopped too.

In the latest posts I in fact suggested that Pollard be moved to inside center with Willemse at 10 and that De Allende be put on the bench.   However, Pollard also have a history of dubious defense and I am at the moment between the devil and a hard stone on that one.       

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
21 Mar 2018, 08:52
#12
21 Mar 2018, 08:52#12

Rohan doesn't have the best of defenses ... agreed ... but he most certainly is a much better rugby player than your thick as two bricks De Allende.

De Allende is NOT test match material. How many more test matches would you have him lose for us before you wake up? I'd rather have Fats Fransie there than this bozo.

Suggesting that Pollard play at 12 is about as ignorant as they come. He can hardly manage at 10 playing for the Bulls and you want to slot in as a Bok 12? Have you lost your mind?

You see what I mean, Mike? When it comes to rugby and you ... well, let's just put it this way ... you guys aren't well suited.


CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
21 Mar 2018, 09:00
#13
21 Mar 2018, 09:00#13

Kolisi was also a favourite of yours ... right, Mike?

I suppose we'll see him make a come back too, right?

Imagine ... Beast, Lood, Kolisi, De Allende and Jesse Kriel ... all back in the Bok mix ... all because "clever" Mike says so .

LOL!!!


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 09:19
#14
21 Mar 2018, 09:19#14

Wrong CC

I am no Kolisi fan and elsewhere had a scrap with Mozart on the Kolisi issue.

There was a newspaper report on the issue of moving Pollard to center and the issue was discussed elsewhere.    Even though I am not a entirely convinced supporter of that move it may be advisable  bearing in mind the problems at center.

You obviously are entitled  to your own opinion  on the issue - but Fat Fransie .....

As to De Jager he is one of the top performing locks in Super 15 at present and most of the Fantasy crowd makes him a selection.  On form he will probably be in the Springbok set-up.   You and I should know is that Beast is a certainty as a quota player - I still think Kitshoff is a better player.    

CC - at least one can have a serious and interesting discussion with you - with Mozart and Beeno that is patently impossible.   That is why I am so delighted you are back.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 09:19
#15
21 Mar 2018, 09:19#15

Wrong CC

I am no Kolisi fan and elsewhere had a scrap with Mozart on the Kolisi issue.

There was a newspaper report on the issue of moving Pollard to center and the issue was discussed elsewhere.    Even though I am not a entirely convinced supporter of that move it may be advisable  bearing in mind the problems at center.

You obviously are entitled  to your own opinion  on the issue - but Fat Fransie .....

As to De Jager he is one of the top performing locks in Super 15 at present and most of the Fantasy crowd makes him a selection.  On form he will probably be in the Springbok set-up.   You and I should know is that Beast is a certainty as a quota player - I still think Kitshoff is a better player.    

CC - at least one can have a serious and interesting discussion with you - with Mozart and Beeno that is patently impossible.   That is why I am so delighted you are back.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 09:19
#16
21 Mar 2018, 09:19#16

Wrong CC

I am no Kolisi fan and elsewhere had a scrap with Mozart on the Kolisi issue.

There was a newspaper report on the issue of moving Pollard to center and the issue was discussed elsewhere.    Even though I am not a entirely convinced supporter of that move it may be advisable  bearing in mind the problems at center.

You obviously are entitled  to your own opinion  on the issue - but Fat Fransie .....

As to De Jager he is one of the top performing locks in Super 15 at present and most of the Fantasy crowd makes him a selection.  On form he will probably be in the Springbok set-up.   You and I should know is that Beast is a certainty as a quota player - I still think Kitshoff is a better player.    

CC - at least one can have a serious and interesting discussion with you - with Mozart and Beeno that is patently impossible.   That is why I am so delighted you are back.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Mar 2018, 16:04
#17
21 Mar 2018, 16:04#17
Lomp is of the top fantasy locks.......too true, his contributions are largely a fantasy.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 17:01
#18
21 Mar 2018, 17:01#18

Mozart

It is not a fantasy BSter - it is based on actual stats and you  can check it on ESPN - not that you will understand it because you cannot comprehend anything contrary to your prejudice.    


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Mar 2018, 18:51
#19
21 Mar 2018, 18:51#19
Your Lomp, Liggies, Goosen, Allende, Stephanie story has been going on since 2013. Five years later these guys have only made a negative contribution to the Boks or no contribution at all. These guys were all the obvious choices, the flavour of the day darlings.....but they all have fatal flaws, Do better.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 22:10
#20
21 Mar 2018, 22:10#20

Mozart

Well not one of the players mentioned were starters or even played ion the biggest disgrace ever in the Springbok Jersey in the game against Japan in 2015 - when all the duds supported by you were in the team.      


Your hate campaign against the same players have been going on for years and started in 2013 -as soon as any player became a selection threat against any dud supported by you he became a target and since then remained one irrespective of performance.

It is really a tragedy that you can try and find desperately even the minutest reason to pick on players and blame for incidents and if there really is none you invented such incidents and when people call you a liar you keep repeating the lies trying to convince some thinking people that the lies are in fact true

The answer is in fact easy - most people on site see through your distortions with ease and ig nore them in any event.       


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 22:10
#21
21 Mar 2018, 22:10#21

Duplcation

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Mar 2018, 23:03
#22
21 Mar 2018, 23:03#22
I was right in 2013 and I'm still right now. Give it a few years and this cadre of losers will hit your mandatory retirement age.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Mar 2018, 23:41
#23
21 Mar 2018, 23:41#23

Mozart

So you admit your cadres of losers were well past their retirement age by 2015?   

How you can possibly being wrong all the time about players.   I will tell you why - it is because you must be spending hours to find  fault with individual players you hate and when you can't find any you try to invent one.  

That makes you differ from rugby experts and then when you are caught out you regfuse to admit you have been wrong.   Typical thinking of a moron.     

XA
XaviPro1,924 posts
22 Mar 2018, 00:59
#24
22 Mar 2018, 00:59#24

De Allende will always be a turnstile in defence which is a shame as he is strong going forward.

I don't think Polard at 12 is a bad idea at all. Willemse will need  some experience outside him and it also give an extra 1st reciever/distributer option and boot. 

Outside center is the conundrum for myself.

Viljoen and Vorster seem the best at reading and adjusting on defence while Am (to me) looks the most dangerous going forward.

Coetzee at 15 is not cutting it either to be honest. A bit like Mike Brown in that he's pretty secure at the back but the ball usually dies with him.


Just my 2p.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Mar 2018, 07:25
#25
22 Mar 2018, 07:25#25

Xavi

The issue here was in essence the recent performances of De Allende after a history of missed tackles, he missed no tackles on Saturday and really not as many as he used to in his  previous matches this year.  His missed tackle ratio was 23 - which to my mind is still too high.

I also think that Willemse should be the flyhalf with Pollard at 12 - but there are also defense issues with the latter - in his previous match he made 8 tackles and missed 4,   Pollad does not have a spotless record as a defender - but that problem may be dealt with if handled properly by the defense coach.

Am has been punted for 13 for almost a year now.   He sometimes looked good in attacking play, but his recent performances have been somewhat unconvincing even though he did score two tries in one match.    I really have not been convinced that he is the answer.

For me Vorster at 13 - where he always was a better  player than at 12 - is perhaps the better candidate  than   the others.   I have a sneaky regard for Viljoen though - he is by far the better thinker on reading the game - some of his strategies have resulted in the scoring of tries by others when  he did not score them himself.   He is also very good in off-loading balls in tackle situations.

I suppose that Kriel may be the preferred candidate - he showed much improved performances this year,

I am pretty sure that Willie le Roux or Gelant will be the fullback; 

We will have to watch what happens in further Super Rugby gam es  this year - but I am sure there will be some surprises,   With Rassie one can never be sure - he will put each player under the proverbial microscope and come up with abilities and deficiencies most observers would miss out on.  So we will only find out what is going on when he starts with preparation camps and afterwards select the squad against the Welsh.                 

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