Definitive Bok Player Ratings

15.Zane Kirchner (7)
14.Bryan Habana (7)
13.Jean De Villiers (2)
12.Frans Steyn (7)
11.Frans Hougaard (7)
10.Morne Steyn (7)
09.Ruan Pienaar (6)
08.Duane Vermuelen (5)
07.Willem Alberts (3)
06.Marcell Coetzee (3)
05.Juandre Kruger (6)
04.Eben Etzebeth (7)
03.Jannie du Plessis (3)
02.Adrian Strauss (7)
01.Tendai Mtawarira (2)

16.Tiaan Liebenberg (2)
17.Pat Cilliers (0)
18.Flip van der Merwe (6)
19.Francois Louw (3)
20.Johan Goosen (6)
21.Pat Lambie (6)
22.Lwazi Mvovo (2)

Points to consider? The Sharks props were once again schooled, when will the penny drop? Beast has the odd good game, but like his team mate Bismarck, only offers a superficial quality, at times. We really are missing Steenkamp; he being the Bok of 2010 and a very strong campaigner throughout 2011. It's a real tragedy that he is not in the mix now that he really is in his prime. Jannie surprised me last year, in a World Cup year he really was a cut above nearly all other tightheads. I don't like to use the term form, as it is a very temporal thing, but his level of performance was reflective of his actual ability. So sad to see him playing so poorly this year. The front row buckled badly. Both Beast and Jannie giving away very costly penalties.

Next, the bench. Not the kind of impact that Meyer would have wanted from the bench. Of the lot, only Goosen did anything noteworthy. He needs to rethink the bench. Liebenber, along with Bismarck, has been consistently the poorest hooker throughout the Super XV. Why is he even here? Louw was just as poor as he was in 2010. Why no Brussow? Mvovo? Whatever happened to Vulindlu? Now that was a wing with a brain. A real tragedy again.

Our loose trio of Duane, Alberts and Coetzee just doesn't work. Coetzee just isn't good enough value for me and Albert's big game against England was clearly nothing more than a flash in the pan. A Juan Smith he most certainly isn't. For this reason it's hard to judge Duane. I think he deserves another crack, but the other two are now a proven failure.

In the backs. Not too much wrong aside from Jean. He is consistently outplayed by opposite numbers and is very weak on defence. He gets run over on a weekly basis, but his defence was a big concern in all big games in the Super XV. At what point does supposed leadership compensate for complete inadequacy in general play? de Jongh is ten times the player Jean is, Jean who never was a centre anyway. On the plus side, it was nice to see Kirchner relieve lots of pressure and he certainly saved us on a few occasions. It was a solid showing and I definitely think this is the one to take to the next World Cup. Pienaar, whilst being mostly solid, is considerably inferior to Hougaard. Pienaar plays a very passive game with no energy. Hougaard seeks ought and conquers his opposite. We really did miss that. He is a much better decision maker and overall a better player than Genia, but of the same ilk. Too much play was directed through our forwards and this was our big concern. Despite the hype, Goosen didn't do very much at all when he came on. He was put into space and made good ground on his fifth touch of the ball, but after that made little impression and was not part of our big forrays forward, wich consisted of, yet again, 9 to a big ball carrier. If we are pinning our hopes on Goosen, it is going to end in tears. Morne made a fantastic break blasting through the defence on his first real ball he could use late in the first half. All in all, he edged Goosen.
 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha!

Great comedy!! Thanks for the laugh!

Morne better than Goosen? ROTFLMAO!

This must be a joke - one absolutely certain to givve people fits of  laughter.   7 Players rated at 7 out of 10 and 2 6 out of 10 whiklst we lost the test!!!!!

Comme now - I know it is difficult to get anything of value from this contributor - but this one takes the cake.   What did Kirchner do to get 7 out of 10?   Caught some balls and kick them  out and in one case cause disruption in a case of a strategic kick - very average - any thinking person would give him 6 out of 10 for that effort.   Him being in the WC team - funny ha-ha - or is it fumnny peculiar?

Hougaard had a quiet game and contributed very little - but he gets 7 out of 10.   5 out of 10 the limit

Francois Steyn - 7 out of 10 - Funny - funny.    5 out of 10 here

Morne Steyn - 7 out of 10 for a disfunctional flyhalf - that kicked away balls especially in the 2nd half -  Every other commentator gives him 4 out of 10 and he would be lucky to get that.

Then we get to Kruger - what did he contribute to get 6 out of 10?   Can remember one penalty he gave away - was he in fact playing?  4 out of 10 maximum

Adriian Strauss - his line throwing was slightly better - but otherwisse nothing to show 5 out of 10 maximum

Morne better than Goosen - what a joke.

Ig somebody saw the match and then read this - he would die laughing!!!!!!! 

Jalapeno, I was counting on you and eventually Sharkbok to say something along those lines. Now with the reposte to vanquish your foolish impetuity:

70:43 - Goosen kick-off, too deep
71:12 - Pienaar to Duane (Duane knock-on)
72:00 - Goosen tackle on Dave Dennis, carried backwards
72:17 - Goosen crabs outwards, Frans cuts inside and takes a pass
72:26 - Goosen runs into space, chased down by Sharpe (Ruck)
72:30 - Pienaar to Loosie (Ruck)
72:38 - Pienaar to Frans Steyn, to Lambie into space
72:50 - Pienaar to Alberts (Ruck)
72:58 - Pienaar to Goosen, lateral to Louw (Ruck)
73:21 - Goosen kicks to the corner just outside Aussie 22
73:49 - Pienaar to Alberts (Ruck)
73:58 - Pienaar to Louw (Ruck)
74:02 - Pienaar to Goosen, lateral to Frans (Ruck)
74:10 - Pienaar to Alberts (Ruck)
75:28 - Goosen knocked off his feet by a charging Hooper
77:07 - Pienaar to Goosen, kick well down field
78:13 - Goosen kicks to the corner
78:57 - Pienaar to Goosen, stopped in his tracks (Ruck)
79:05 - Pienaar to Alberts (Ruck)
79:11 - Pienaar to Frans Steyn, long pass out to Goosen (Ruck et Turnover)

At what point was Goosen the big hero? These points illustrate perfectly where our problems were the entire game, just as I pointed out several times before. Listen and learn dumb dumb.
 

"Listen and lern"

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

U cracking me up dude!

I spose its just coincidence that on avrge the Bulls players rate 6.6 accordng to u and the Sharks players average 3.7 something? Your bias is so blatant and so pathetc.  Go "lern" rugby, retardcat! LMAO!

What do you mean kick-off to deep.   Goosen tackled carried backwards - ha-ha-ha.   Goosen crabs outward - what does that mean?  Lateral to Louw?   That kick was from the ten meter line and in fact a penalty kick.     Hell - are you aware of what crap you write?

Morne buggered up everything he touched in the  second half - but that is not recoreded - is it?

Pienaar knows better than to pass to Morne if he wants to see functioning of the backline.  Notice that try scored by Pietersen in the test against the POMS.   Pienaar ignored Steyn and passed doirectly to Pietersen - otherwise there would have been NO TRY.

Halavato, you are making a complete idiot of yourself. First of all, if you are going to copy a quote, at least read it and spell it right. If you are going to critique a supposed typo, then don't make one of your very own in the very same self-righteous post!

"I spose its just coincidence that on avrge the Bulls players rate 6.6 accordng to u and the Sharks players average 3.7 something?"

What a complete tool. Now, onto the topic at hand, nice attempt to try and divert from your gaff, but now focus, at what point was Goosen the hero. Just answer my very simple question.
 

Mike, I really shouldn't speak to someone who was a hasty accident, but I will help you out.

- Goosen kicks deep without an pressure, Aussies end up with a lineout inside our half. Not great tacticality

- Goosen crabs outwards means he languidly ran parallel to the defence without engaging it. frans took it upon himself to cut inside and create some go forward. Clear enough for you?

- Goosen tackled backwards. Why laugh at that? Is that all you can do? Pretty shocking really taking into consideration that Goosen was without fault.

You think Morne made mistakes, post them. But until then, I want to hear you explain to me exactly WHY Goosen was supposedly so good and what it was that he did. I'm waiting.
 

Bullshit baffles brains again and again.   Your match description is really funny.   What Morne does 20 times in a game and Goosen did once is singled out.   How many hospital passes did Morne give during any given game - and he always runs sideways before the hospital passes.   Gor every one kick made by Gooesn - Morne made 20.

You really are far to dumb to deal with - so have fun in your own dreamworld. 

The definitive ratings? Ha ha ha!

Oh Mike, you once again plunged your foot deep down the back of your throat! You make mere conjectures there, I offered something very specific. Now, I asked you a very simple question. What did Goosen do that made him a hero? Can you do that sugar bumps? lol. If you won't deal with this, then at least admit you are a coward. I understand you are hesitant, especially after the grilling I gave you last time when I uncovered all your lies about Du Preez, Jean and Adi! What fun it was. And here are again, merely repeating our beloved history. Mike takes the bait and is hooked, struggling on the ropes he finds no way out. Sucker punched clean and quick. If only you would at least make a game of it. Now I say again, what was it that Goosen did that was so special? Just that one answer. I'll be waiting as ever. Toodles xx

retardcat, yr trying a bit too hard to be some kind of internet hard man when its painfully obvious to every1 that ur actually just a sad middle aged loser living with yr mommy. U might fool the likes of Bean Brain but ur not fooling me. Sorry to be the 1 to break it 2 u but u needed the reality check.

LOL! Halavato hit on a raw nerve. Great stuff ;)

@requiescat,

morne was better then goosen.

bismarck superficial quality at times.

zane krichner relieved a lot of pressure.

and the player ratings straight out of PDV weird and wonderful fictional facts.

i would be hilarious if it wasnt for the fact he actually believes it, which just makes it sad.

Did I say Morne was better than Goosen? Or that Goosen was better than Morne? Sasuke, you must be very careful in your dealings with me, your poor attention to detail will lead you into trouble. I pointed out some very interesting facts that these baffoons cannot grasp. Morne and Goosen are not the cause or answer to our problems. That much is what I have said, in fact, I said I do not mind which 10 plays. It won't make much difference in the end though. In this instance I have once again exposed the shallow and biased thinking , or lack thereof, of this trio. They pinned everything on Morne, and it was exposed as another lie. Watch as they duck and dive avoiding all of my legitimate questions. Why? Because to answer them truthfull, they will have to concede defeat.

As per Bismarck and Kirchner, both arguments have remained undisputed. If you think you can counter them, then please be man enough to put something out there a little detailed and specific. It would be a shame for you to join the ranks of Mike, Halavato and Sharkbok.
 

morne rating 7

goosen rating 6

yes u may not have said it outright, but u did imply it with the most rubbish ratings i have ever read.
 

IMO the Boks fluidity in attck was more evident once goosen came on. morne made 20mtrs the whole game with ball in hand, while goosen made 17mtrs in almost one eigth the time.
goosen may not be the answer to the Boks problem, but morne is a big part of the problem, meyer and his wahck selections are another part.
 

More fluid you say? How so? I already went through his time and he never changed anything. He had a hand in NO attacking play that amounted to anything.

And what problem is Morne a big part of? And how is he a part of this supposed problem? Answer this fully.

Who is this requiescat tosser?? Alberts has a "quiet" game by his standards and all of a sudden he is useless. Bismarck is the best hooker in the world and one of the best players in general and a fool like requiescat takes a crack at him. Morne edged Goosen..Fair enough. A guy who plays 71 mins in his 38th Cap (27th consecutive game) slightly edges out a guy who gets 9 mins in his debut game? He should have been classes above Goosen. Requiescat, congratualtions. SA rugby has never seen an idiot queit like you. I mean, we have seen some indifferent views before but nothing as plain down dumb as you. Obviously never played the game and know nothing about it. Luzuko Vulindlu went back to club rugby for the Durban North Crusaders before playing for Auch in France for the year and if you watched rugby, you would know that he turned out for Griquas on the weekend. To answer your "Goosen and hero" question, the man was never expected to be a hero in his 1st game. All we are saying is that we already no Morne is a zero, so its time to step aside and let real talent take over. Morne's skill with ball in hand mimicks your knowledge of rugby...Very unnatural and awkward to see..Simple diagnoses..No talent!

Alberts has only ONE good game and now he is a great player? Who is the fool again? lol

As for Bismarck. He has consistently been a poor lineout thrower, weak scrummager, poor carrier into contact, conceding high amounts of turnovers annually, concedes high numbers of penalties annually. And now he is the best hooker in the world? His Super XV campaign this year was his worst ever, not that he has ever had a great one. Yes, again I ask, who here is the fool?

Boklogic, in order for Goosen to be rated higher than Morne, he needs to produce something more. Time is irrelevent. MAYBE if he was on longer it would have been slightly different, but I don't operate on maybe, I can only assess it as it happened. And to your other statement, which was actually quite stupid; yes, Goosen WAS supposed to be the hero in his first game. What have we been hearing all year? Goosen ahead of Morne and the Bok's problems are solved. Yes, over and over and over again it has been the drone of the year.

Boklogic, please, ask the moderator to delete your account and put all this behind you. You just made a complete idiot of yourself.
 

Lets see how many times cat responds to those that disagree with him ......."your an idiot".................bhwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....... lol...I have never read such drivel - actually I have, but once cat gets bashed into pieces he will come back on as his alias Apollo and start abusing again....its so predictable its laughable!!!!

Whats even more laughable is the complete amount of rubbish that you put on this board - you are like many of our bok players atthis moment in time - "LACKING INTELLIGENCE"....but you at least give us great comedy...hehehe

Monkey say....monkey do.......dont feed the chimpanzees guys......lol

Am I the only one here calling someone stupid? The only difference is that I am the only one that has put anything forward. You cowards won't even answer my questions. Rather pathetic actually. Notice how I open the door for a debate, but you inbreds won't have that. It's not in you.

Why would anyone want to debate someone who is calling them an Idiot, a Loser, a Coward, an inbred , and stupid....?? People have given opinions and you call them idiots. Why would they then continue?

If you were educated, like you state, you would understand that that is not debating, or even having an argument. That is elementary school yard rubbish that is useless to repsond to.

Calling someone an idiot, then posting your argument is the worst way to "open the floor for debate". Any educated person would know this. :)

This is quite hlarious. Notice how after posting something I am INSTANTLY bombarded with insults. Did that one escape you. Rather it is I that shouldn't even acknowledge them, and even after they continue with their hot air and insults I work to extract something more from them. Can, you really do need to wake-up, or are you to afraid to do anything other than jump on the bandwagon. I still haven't had a single question answered. They all jump on here bleating how stupid I am yet I put the heat on them and they go quiet. Very poor form. Very low and pathetic.

"This is quite hlarious. Notice how after posting something I am INSTANTLY bombarded with insults. Did that one escape you."

No, but I think it has escaped you. :)

Try not insulting people at all, in any post you make, in any thread, then see what happens when you start a thread. If people want to call you an idiot, then so be it. Imo, it makes them look worse(especially on the internet) then it does you just ignoring it.

 Just curious...how does Coetzee get a three? I read he was our most prolific tackler....and never missed a tackle. Is he another player you have an aversion to....along with Bismarck, the Beast, Jannie, Kankowski and Alberts.....what's the common factor, I wonder?

You want to go there, then you will make yourself a liar Moz. I have praised Beast quite extensively over the years, so too Alberts, JPP, Kankowski (2006 to 2008 Italian test), Frans, Swanepoel, Smit, Terblanche, Whitehead, Botes, Daniels, Coetzee (Super XV), Vulindlu, Pienaar, McLeod (2010-2011), Bosman, Ludik, Kockott, Vulindlu and many, many others over the years. In fact, between 2002 to 2004 I was accused of being a closet Sharks fan. My how short your memories are. But carry on however you want.

You bring a tear to my eye....but still answer the question....how can our best defender Coetzee get a three?

Our best defender? I dont think he was, and in case you hadn't realized it, it was his parterniship in the backrow that was completely outplayed by the Aussies. Remember that? Our best defender was Frans.

 Well Jean was 3/1......Steyn 5/1.....Coetzee 11/0. That's it for any fair minded person. Curiously next best after Coetzee was Morne at 9/0.

I saw no missed tackle by Frans and I just watched that game twice now. As per Coetzee, if you want to rank him highly for making a few so-so tackles then that's your right, I consider the fact that he was hopelessly outplayed on the deck and in general play by his counter-part. The loose trio was our absolute biggest problem and has been the biggest issue for Meyer since day one. For me that is not good enough and both Albert and Coetzee do not get a pass from me, far from it. I'm willing to let Duane off the hook as he was thrown to the lions without a prayer. I believe he is a better player then that showing.

Cat,

Saying Coetzee wasn't at least one of the top three defensive players on the boks on Saturday is a little off. Moz has clearly stated this with hard stats. You could see it also while watching the game. On the Attack coetzee may not have been visible, but with 11 tackles to none missed, a 3/10 is a bit off.

He, just like a lot of them, was not up to par in every aspect of the game, but he made his tackles and contributed to the defence better then most, even the one you say was the best.

Time and again people twist what I say. I said Coetzee did not do his job, he was outplayed and was hopeless crashing the ball all day for little impact with Alberts. The only reason he was selected was for his ball carrying, and it didn't work. We sacrificed breakdown presence for ball carrying. Where did Australia beat us? Yes, exactly. That does not get a plus from me.

Cat,

You said this. "Our best defender? I dont think he was,....."

I'm not twisting anything. I agree somewhat that he didn't play all aspects of the game very well. I disagree with this statement from you though. If he wasn't our best defender, he at least was one of them.

Yes. his work on defence isn't a bad thing. I have never questioned that, but my sole point is what good is that one attributed when you lose a presence at the breakdown - the key facet that decides who wins. The sad thing is that Brussow is a stronger and faster player with very good hands and is extremely good on defence. His linking play among the backs is faultless. He was exceptional throughout the S15. He took enormous pressure off the Cheetahs and allowed them to feed their backline. Coetzee, when compared to that, looks a very drab player to say the least. But all game, it's just countless passes to Alberts or Coetzee who just smash it up for mere mm, only for Morne to be blamed! That to me is sickening.

I have seen it all - the players like Bismarck - rated the best in the world throughout the rugby playing world is useless according to the demented poster.  Lambie is a coward - Coetzee is useless in defence.

What a joke - that the drivel is actually believed by one person posting on this Board.   The rest are better informed and see what is really is.

Just as an aside - I watched that game again and Morne Steyn in fact missed four crucial tackles - but he gets a 7 for that effort.   Really a joke that one.   Francois Steyn was actually brsuhed aside in two cases - but other players affected the tackles he missed - so put that in your pie and smoke it.

By the way - if there is any competition by a player not playing for the Bulls to get into the Springbok team - he suddenly is the worst in the world - a coward and a loser.   That is why the Bulls players always get top marks - irrespective of how bad they are. 

There you go again Mike. More inaccuracies.

Bismarck
If Bismarck is the best in the world then how can he:

- Rank top each year for turnovers conceded
- Rank very highly for penalties conceded
- Rank highly for poor defence
- Why does he struggle to be effective as a ball carrier?
- Why is he a poor scrummager?
- Why is he a poor lineout thrower?

All of these things are consistent year in and year out. How can I rate this player as the best when these factors predominate his game?

Lambie
I already went through that Aussie game last year, I highlighted how he avoided making a tackle. Many times this occured and at least once he allowed Genia to slip right past him, and poor Jacobs of all people had to save the day! Does a courageous player step aside? Or throw a pass to avoid contact? Lambie is not a player who likes to take contact. Very much like Jantjies and Rose. In the end, I had a reason to say this and I had something very tangible to point to. If you don't like it, then tough luck, because it happened.

Coetzee
I praised Coetzee all year for his defence. You lie yet again. In fact, in one quote I specifically made mention to the fact that at least he was making his tackles, because nobody else in the pack was. lol

Bulls Players I Have Castigated
Flip, Kirchner (2008), Olivier (2006 to 2008), Werner Kruger, Richard Bands, JP Nel, Ralepelle (2004-2009), Stegmann, Gerber, derick hougaard, kunn, roets and many, many more. Probably dozens from between 1999 to 2004.

 @Bismark Duplessis-  Ask any of the top coaches in the world, and the top players- if they choose a World XV who would play number 2?

Sean Fitzpatrick- one of the best hookers of all time, not just Allblacks- rates Bismark as #number1. I have seen Sky Sports commentry- where Fitzpatrick is Bismarks biggest peer and even fan.

- ok, I disagree with you- however that does not give you a license to start a barrage of personal insults like the calling of an idiot. 

Fact is, Sean Fitpatrick knows more than me but his opinion is not a fact. However I feel that Bismark is the top number 2 in the world. If he is not, then who is better? 

This is just a casual dialogue, no need to get into arguements,

 Poor old rescue/cat has Goosen screwing up 10 times in 10 minutes. And then incredibly, he gives him a 6. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Nice try Moz, I stated there were two key moments for him. The kick out that was too deep and allowed Australia to keep us in our half on the return. The turnover in Australia's 22 was another. Did he go much else wrong? No he didn't, quite clearly I have stated this much. Hence he was not as influential as everyone would like to believe. So yes, it can be made up, and from out of your own mouth.

Besides, hows Jean at 13 working for you? You called it on Adi and JPP, so you sure know how to pick those centres! Now THAT you can't make up ;)
 

Those ratings are way off! I guess everyone has the right to state there opinions on the game, but seriously? I think Requiescat have to watch the game again to be perfectly honest.