Deon Fourie set to start at 6

Ex Supersport

Deon Fourie’s condition is improving and it looks increasingly likely that he may be wearing the DHL Stormers No 6 jersey in the final Vodacom Super Rugby tour game against the Rebels in Melbourne on Friday.

The Stormers hooker left the field with a suspected fractured rib in the last 10 minutes of the 21-15 defeat to the Waratahs in Sydney. He followed Duane Vermeulen and Rynhardt Elstadt off the field, and that was a double whammy for the Stormers in the sense that Vermeulen and Fourie are the best ball foragers in the Cape outfit.

Although Vermeulen is a No 8, he was effectively the Stormers’ loose-forward fetcher, as he plays too the ball, and that is something that Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer will also be very aware of as he contemplates starting the season without the Stormers loose-forward. Although Pierre Spies has been in excellent form for the Bulls, he has a different playing style to Vermeulen.

Reading between the lines of what coach Allister Coetzee is saying from Sydney, where the Stormers have stayed to prepare for the Rebels game, he will try and off-set the loss of Vermeulen by playing Fourie on the flank 9Because snapste rkolis cant fetch - or run these days ). He captained Western Province to the Currie Cup title last year wearing the No 6 jersey and is no stranger to it. Indeed, there are some that feel, given his poor lineout throwing, that he might be better suited to flank than to hooker.(Exactly so and hence how badly we have missed Tiaan for his powerful scrumming and lineout throws as well as his great robust play and mobility - one of the best hookers in the business)

Don Armand has been flown to Australia as a replacement for the two injured loose-forwards, but could well play off the bench, with Fourie and Siya Kolisi on the flank and Nizaam Carr at No 8 in place of Vermeulen. (Play Armand for Petes sake !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

“Deon has responded well to treatment thus far – it looks better. We will give him a chance until Wednesday before making a final decision on him, but looks relatively positive with Deon now,” said Coetzee.

If Fourie does play flank, Scarra Ntubeni will make his first start of the season in the No 2 jersey, with Lions loan player Martin Bezuidenhout covering him from the bench (Play the bigger more physical Bezuidenhout also a nice pacy hooker)

One about gives up with Alistair but lets wait and see the teamsheet.  One hops he makes  a few changes to the backline. 

beeno

I hope Kolisis is selected at 6 - otherwise Saffex would have a seizure.   His blood pressure is already high - because I dared to criticize some of his pedestal players - te selection of Fourie ahead of Kolisi would sent him ballistic.  

I have given my choice of backline playrs elsewhere.   The total collapse of De Jongh in defence needs to be taken seriously by Coetzee.   He cannot continue to miss tackles like he did on Saturday - out of 5 attempted tackles he made 3 and missed 2.   Mozart will contest this staement - but De Jongh is now representative of a defensive sieve.  

If the Stormers wish to make any headway Coetzee has to change that backline - so I hope he does.

 Smart move. Kolosi has been average in most games this year, and poor in the rest. 

Deon Fourie was the best fetcher in the Curry Cup and SA SuperX teams last year. 

His throws are poor and he needs to focus on playing at 6 for the Stormers and even the boks.

 You stupid clowns seem to have failed to notice that Kolisi has made the S15 side of the week a few times. I dont recall Fourie ever making the side. Shows how ignorant you twits are.......but keep up the good work

 Saffex you idiot- every Tom, Dick and Harry has their own S15 side of the week. 

Usually they all disagree who should be in the team of the week, so which one or anyone is correct? How about Keo?

It is like your SuperXV team of the week- their is allways a place for your favourite youngsters even when they played Rubbish. 

Can you get it through your thick skull that Kolisi is playing in the number 6 position but does not make turnovers.

With the lose of Vermuelen a fetcher at 6 is required more than ever.

Look here Twatbok, I know you are one stupid prick who struggles to comprehend the very basics of rugby, but for a start you will find that the S15 sides of the week on the various sites are pretty similar and the one I was refering to has 6 rugby writers picking the side. So the fact that Kolisi has made the side on a few occasions speaks volumes and makes a mockery of your predictable ignorant take on the player.

You are so fucking stupid that in your eyes the measure of a 6 is the number of turnovers he effects. How thick are you. If a 6 effect one turnover a game, that is plenty, hell if turnovers were the measure of a 6, then surely we should move Coenie to 6, you stupid ignorant twat.

Kolisi does not effect one turnover a game, but he does contribute to slowing the breakdown down and more importantly makes an impact with ball in hand and defensively. But chances are you are too stupid to comprehend what the art of slowing the breakdown actually entails.

You really are an ignorant twat

Idiot, read what I wrote, and read the article at the top of this post again.

It seems you are too stupid to understand the theme of the article and why Fourie is being considered at 6.

Everyone knows that a number6 should be able to do more than fetch, but it is often the primary function of the role.

This is especially true when the other loose forwards are not strong on the ground- like the very average 

Kolisi if he plays in another position like 7 or 8.

With Vermuelen out, it leaves the Stormers with limited options on the ground.

Why have a small loose forward if he is not good on the ground?

It is not as if Kolisi has the linking ability of say Daniels when in form.

Kolisi looks like he is either going to be playing at 7 or 8, or he will  be on the bench. 

It was just the other day that you said that Kolisi is better than Burger was at the same age.

(Burger won IRB player of the year award at the same age).

Also last year you said Habana is finished, and he got the SA player of the year award, as well as the international 

award for best try of the season .

Your problem is not rugby, you just do not think logically.

You cant look objectively at any situation to make sense of it

What ever limited criteria you have to assess a player is totally predudiced because the way you measure young players is totally different to older players. Twat.

 No you thick prick this was about your ignorant take on Kolisi, because you are so bloody stupid.

So a 6's primary role is the turnover is it - fuck me you are thick. On average a 6 effects one turnover a game - you do the maths bright spark.

I'll say it one more time, your take on Kolisi at 6 is complete and utter ignorant bullshit, much like the majority of your rugby takes. You are thick.

I said Habana was done when he was playing poorly, when he regained form, I conceded I was wrong - get it you stupid dunce?

 Are you so stupid you cant read. This is exactly your problem with understanding rugby and making assesments.

Look again I said "fetch"- not make turnovers.

Fetching is allot more than just turnovers, like out cleaning out rucks to ensure fast recycled ball from multi-phase play to attack quickly from.

This is why Flouw was brought in last year  for the  boks- the rucks were a mess.

When both he and Vermuelen played the rucks improved.

you are such a bumbline idiot, that you claim Flouw is a blind side flank.

Probably because he is a little heavier than many opensiders, this is how simplistic your thought process is.

You cant computate that some big players are still mobile, like Schalk was when he played at 6- especially before he broken his neck.

-

Turnovers is a part of fetching but not the whole responsibility. 

This is the WikiPedia definition of an openside flanker.

I have highlighted points to make it easier for you to understand.

 FlankerRole

Flankers are the players with the fewest set responsibilities and therefore the position where the player should have all round attributes: speed, strength, fitness, tackling and handling skills. Flankers are always involved in the game, as they are the real ball winners in broken play, especially the No. 6. Blindside flankers tend to be bigger (so they can stop the opposite number 8 off the back of scrums[citation needed]) but not as fast as their partners on the openside who tend to be the smaller. They are light and faster than the stockyer players.

In open play, flankers will often stand behind the back line 'supporting' them in open play. If any ball is dropped by the backs, the flankers' job is to clear up messy ball and start a new phase of play. Because they are always close to the ball, they are often first to the break down..

Since most of the back play is usually on the open side, where there is more space, it is usually the openside flanker's job to be the first to any breakdown of play and to get his/her hands on any loose ball (or to cause a breakdown by tackling the ball carrier or otherwise hurrying him into error). At a scrum where the ball has been won by the opposition, the openside flanker often has the best view of when the ball is out and is able to break away and close down the opposing ball-carrier, reducing the time available for a pass or kick. Openside flankers are often smaller than their blindside counterparts.

The blindside flanker has the job of stopping any move by the opponents on the blind (or 'narrow') side from a scrum. This flanker is slower than the openside. Blindside flankers are often responsible for cover defence from set pieces and may play a more physical role at the line-out, where they may well be used as a jumper they can also be used for breaking their opposition line in open play using their speed and strength to break tackles. They are generally larger than openside flankers.

Most countries prefer a quicker openside flanker with the ability to get off the scrum quickly so that he can scavenge for the ball. In South Africa, however, they prefer their blindside flanker quicker. The reason for this is that it is the blindside flanker's duty to carry the ball, meaning they prefer the person running with the ball being quicker rather than the person trying steal it. They want an openside flanker to rather know and have anticipation skills of where the next ruck or maul is going to be, therefore they don't disrupt defensive lines by rushing up to a ruck.

Flankers are not always assigned specific roles as opensides and blindsides.(Schalk Burger can play on both sides). For example, flankers Finlay Calder and John Jeffrey (Scotland) played left and right, rather than open and blind. French teams tend not to make a distinction between the two roles, and their flankers also usually play left and right rather than open and blind: thus, Serge Betsen (France) wears the number six (which in most teams denotes a blindside flanker) but may pack down on either the open or blind sides of the scrum, and will often harass the opposition fly-half in the manner of an openside; like Calder and Jeffrey for Scotland, he and Olivier Magne formed an outstanding left-right partnership for France.[citation needed] 

South African teams generally use openside and blindside flankers,[citation needed]but play the more agile 'fetcher' in the number six shirt, while the larger and quicker (blindside) flanker wears seven. George Smith is a notable flanker who sometimes played on the blindside, but nowadays plays on the openside.

 --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanker_(rugby_union)

Sharkbok

What else do you expect from Saffex - after all he rated Jantjies' performance on par with that of Lambie and better than Catrakillis.- the guy is prejudiced beyond belief.  Once he puts a player on a pedestal - he stays on that pedestal and irrespective of how bad the player performs - his rating is always "bloody good" according to Saffex.

He does not like Lambie at flyhalf - so he must play at full back and Taute at center outside Steyn - who is the worls top 12 - remember that is his credo even when Steyn was  under-performing.  He has changed the Taute angle at center now to Engelbrecht.   Somehow the guy is unable to cater for logical discussion.  If anybody say anything against what he thinks of players - that person is ignorant - idiotic, etc.

Twatbok, you stupid dunce, Kolisi executes all the attributes of fetching other than effecting a turnover a game.

Why do you think he plays 6, if he is not a fetcher and why on earth would he be in Meyer's training squad if he was as average as you make him out to be. Your ignorance shines bright.

DomMike, shut the fuck up you ignorant prick

We have a class commedian in out midst - he constantly provided a joke regularly.

Top Joke - Best of 2013 thus far

"Jantjies is on par with Lambie and better than Catrakillis"

Joke no 2

Bosman is useless and brings nothing to the game.  Steyn (overwieght and unfit) is a better no 12.

Joke 3

Meyer is suddenly the guiding angel. What a joke!!!!

One should really love this commedian     LOL

DomFuckingMike at least I am not stupid and ignorant enough to have Rene Ranger down as a yo yo player. How fucking stupid are you.

Do us all a favour and keep posting your shit - man its worth a good laugh, yo-yo man. You are as thick as pigshit

Calm down snapster your blood pressue must be going  through the roof. All this is not a matter of life and death!

Anyhow this weekend you will have a chance to see Fourie at 6 it seems.

Saffex is really is hillarious to all watching you think you have an understanding of Rugby.

Your statement" Kolisi executes all the attributes of fetching other than effecting a turnover a game"

 If Kolisi was on the ball like a good opensider it is enivitable that he would make some turnovers. 

---

Stupid Saffex- read the paragraph:

It is usually the openside flanker's job to be the first to any breakdown of play and to get his/her hands on any loose ball (or to cause a breakdown by tackling the ball carrier or otherwise hurrying him into error).

-

If Kolisi was consistenly the first to get to the ball, it is inevitable that he would at least make one turnover per match.

Like I say, you do not have the ability to think logically.

-

Also, the rucking play of the Stormers has not been great, and your hero Kolisi spends more time standing back from the rucks, in loose play.

He should be playing onto the ball, not playing off it.

So Twatbok, do you not think that it may be down to his turnover technique huh? He gets there first or second and slows the ball down without effecting a turnover - you get it? Open your eyes and watch him next time you thick prick. The actual turnover is a very rare thing.

And who said he makes no turnovers at all?

I fully understand rugby, but its very clear you dont.

As for the rucks, you want your big boys committed to that, not your opensides......damn right he should be looking to get out and run it.

Nice to see your command of the game - keep surfing dumb ass

 Idiot Saffex, if you are suggesting that Kolisi has poor technique then why is he playing openside flank.

It is your typical crap, you get exposed for being a dummy and you resort to lying and childish insults.

anyone can pick the ball up from the ground or pull it out of someones else arms if they are consitently the first person to get to a ruck. Not releasing would be a penalty. All rugby players can do this, not just open side flanks.

Read again stupid-" it is usually the openside flanker's job to be the first to any breakdown of play and to get his/her hands on any loose ball.

If Kolisi was the first person to get to a ruck, then Deon Fourie would not be considered at 6. 

Can you provide any evidence that Kolisi is the first person to the ruck consistently- such as the amount of turnovers he does in comparison to say Deon Fourie last year at 6?

Vermuelen is a better fetcher than Kolisi, but with Vermuelen out injured it leaves the Stormers looseforwards weak on a fetcher. Read the artcile again dummy.  Most people can see this except for a dummy like you. Stick to coaching your Sons under15 F team. 

Twatbok, if it was that easy to turn ball over, every player would be doing it. You really are fucking stupid. You are so ignorant that you think its the first player on the ball that makes the turnover, when in fact you will often find its the second player.

Kolisi plays 6 for he is quick enough to get to the breakdown first or second and slow the ball down, the primary role of a 6. He also happens to be effective carrying the ball and very good in the tackle.

Not all 6's are turnover kings, look no further than McCaw.........but hey show us what a great rugby intellect you are and counter the my call on McCaw at openside for NZ.......there are a few more about - Robshaw of England, Schalk when he played 6 for the Boks.......you getting the picture dimwit???

 Your latest statement is hillarious- "McCaw is not good at turnovers".

Schalk was very good at turnovers unitl his neck operation, and thereafter moved to the blindside.

I do not watch enough of Robshaw of England, but from what I have seen he is not good at anything.

-

You keep going back to turnovers, which is just one part of being a fetcher.

A fetcher is the first person to the tackle area and has  a massive influence on ruck play. 

Brussouw in 2009 was an excellant fetcher, but he has never regained the same level of form even though he is still one of the top3-5 fetchers in the country.

-

Although it is funnny laughing at your opionion over and over, I have work commitments that I have to do.

 Richie Mccaw is regarded by many as the best openside flanker to have played the game-

Wikipedia-

Playing style [edit]

McCaw predominately plays at openside flanker, although he has played in the other "loose forward" positions of blindside flanker and number eight for the Crusaders.[92] The openside flanker binds to the side of the scrum farthest from the touch-line and is usually one of the first players to reach a breakdown. In 2008, McCaw told the IRB:

"My main role as a flanker is, defensively, to tie in with the back line to ensure that the defence works well.

-On attack I think my primary role at first phase is to look after our ball.

You attack the back line and I'm usually the first person there to make sure we secure that ball.

-Thirdly I put pressure on break downs and make sure I disturb their ball and try toturn their ball over."[93]

McCaw is regarded as one of the best openside flankers of all time.[94][95] When he received the IRB Player of The Year award for the third time former Australian lock and award chairperson John Eales described him as "an outstanding captain, a world class player and a role model for our sport".[96] Along with Dan Carter, he is seen as one of the most influential members of the All Blacks.[97] McCaw considers his ability to anticipate play as one of his most important skills.[93] Australian openside David Pocock, who was also shortlisted for the IRB award, admires the way he reads the game as well as his ability to read the referee.[98]

Not all agree however, with McCaw being labeled a "cheat" by former South Africa coach Peter de Villiers.[99] Longtime Springboks lock Victor Matfield said in 2010 that the referees let "him get away with murder" at the breakdown.[100] Shortly after the 2011 Rugby World Cup Final, veteran France back-rower Imanol Harinordoquy said about McCaw's play in that match, "He played the whole match in our camp. He did a lot of things and nobody [specifically match referee Craig Joubert] told him anything. Three minutes from the end of the game, I saw him dive on the side of a ruck and he stayed there for ages."[101] Media footage has been released pinpointing unpenalised transgressions during a match against Australia.[102] Former Australian coach Eddie Jones and flanker Phil Waugh say he does no more than any other good openside, but his skill at judging how the referee will interpret the breakdown is the main reason for his success.[102][103] McCaw admits that he tests the referee early "to know what you can get away with"[104] and that only an "idiot" would not adapt to their rulings.[105] Teammate Aaron Mauger,[106] along with many New Zealand fans, have suggested that McCaw's influence and playing style has made him a target for illegitimate play.[107] International players Phil Waugh,[108] Jamie Heaslip,[109] Marcus Horan,[108] Andy Powell,[110] Dylan Hartley[111] and Quade Cooper[112] have been accused of making "cheap shots" on McCaw. He has even been on the receiving end from his All Black teammates when playing for the Crusaders, with Neemia Tialata, Jerry Collins and Ali Williams becoming frustrated with his play.[113] According to McCaw "what happens on the field stays on the field" and if he gets extra attention it is because he "must be doing something right".[114]

Twatbok, you have been exposed.......you had an issue with Kolisi as he does not turn ball over. Neither does McCaw and nor did Schalk and nor does Robshaw.

Kolisi executes all the other attributes of a fetcher really well, hence why he plays there and why he is in the Bok training squad and why he will play for the Boks.

The joke is on you and we all know it

 Spaztex-

Rugby | Vodacom Super Rugby

Deon Fourie has recovered his fitness and has been switched to flank for the DHL Stormers’ final Vodacom Super Rugby tour game against the Rebels in Melbourne on Friday.

Normally a hooker, Fourie’s ball scavenging skills would have been what prompted his switch of position to openside flank after the Stormers lost Duane Vermeulen to injury last week. Although a No 8, Vermeulen was the only loose-forward in the back row that played against the Waratahs in Sydney last time out that plays to the ball.

Scarra Ntubeni gets his first start of the season at Super Rugby level and the Stormers will be hoping that he can bring more consistency to his throwing at the lineouts than Fourie did. Ntubeni, a star of Western Province’s victory in last season’s Currie Cup final, is also a strong scrummager.

The Stormers back-row looks very different to the one that played the Waratahs, with Nizaam Carr also getting his first start of the season at No 8. Siya Kolisi, normally a No 6, moves to blindside flank in place of Rynhardt Elstadt, who was also injured in Sydney and like Vermeulen will be out for six to eight weeks.

Rotation has played a big part in many of the selections, with coach Allister Coetzee describing the combination as an exciting one.

As anticipated, Elton Jantjies and Louis Schreuder come into the team as the new halfback combination. Gary van Aswegen drops to the bench and scrumhalf Dewaldt Duvenage drops out altogether as Nic Groom joins the replacements.

The rotation policy sees Pat Cilliers come into the side at tighthead in place of Frans Malherbe as the seventh change to the side that lost 21-15 last week.

DHL Stormers team: Joe Pietersen, Gio Aplon, Juan de Jongh, Jean de Villiers (captain), Bryan Habana, Elton Jantjies, Louis Schreuder, Nizaam Carr, Siya Kolisi, Deon Fourie, Andries Bekker, Eben Etzebeth, Pat Cilliers, Scarra Ntubeni, Steven Kitshoff.

Replacements: Martin Bezuidenhout, Frans Malherbe, Gerbrandt Grobler, Don Armand, Nic Groom, Gary van Aswegen, Gerhard van den Heever.

Well given Elstadt and Vermeulen are injured, its obvious moving Fourie to 6 and Kolisi to 7, for there is no way you could play Fourie at 7. What's the big deal? If Elstadt was fit, Fourie would be at 2 and Kolisi at 6. 

Sharkbok

I read your comments with interest and would like to say that an openside flamk have a number of basic functios that should be performed.   These include inter alia the following:-

*   Strong ball carying

*   Good defence 

*   Fetching

*   Ball handling - passing skills 

Included in fetching are -

*   delaying the release of the ball by the opposition;

*   turnovers in possession without giving away penalties

*   Holding up and preventing opposition playes to go to ground and release the ball in tackle situations - the Cheetahs are partoicularly good in that and it is also regularly done in sevens games.

The issue to my mind has to do wiith two aspects - the speed and physical strength of the players are very important in the relevant regard.   

I have looked at two players and their performances as to the above requirements namely Kolisis as an opensider and Labuschagne as a blindsider - bearing in mind that an opensider should get to breakdown points before a blindsider:-

Kolisi

Tries scored                   -          1

Try assists                      -          -

Number of ball carries    -       56

Distance gained             -      139

Average carry distance   -        2,5 meters

Turnovers                       -         4

Tackles made                 -        109

Tackles missed              -          13

Line out takes                -            3

Penalties                        -           6

Labuschagne

Try assists                        -        1

Number of ball carries    -       60

Distance gained              -      240

Average carry distance   -         4 meters

Turnovers                        -         9

Tackles made                  -      157

Tackles missed               -          7

Line out takes                 -        25

Penalties                         -          7

The issue here is how did Kolisi as an open-side flank match up?   To my mind the openside flank should show much better performance in all aspects - other than perhaps in the case of line-out takes than a blindsider.   He should be an active ball carrier and should gain more meters per carry than a blindsider.   Above all - he should make more tackles and miss less than a blindsider.

Lookig at and considering the above data - there is no indication that Kolisi -

*    is a particularly strong ball-carrier;

*   really is that strong a defender taking into consideration he missed more than 10% of all attempted tackles'.

*   is not particularly useful in line-outs.

Insofar as general play is concerned - I have never seen Kolisi playing a role where his team is trying to stop tackles players from going down - thus being able to release the ball.  Kolisi also have a tendency to knock on balls and thus lose possession through turnovers.

Looking at the above - it is evident that we are dealing here with a player that is performing on an average basis - nothing really outstanding of note. He is adequate - but not exceptional.

 Clevermike

Those stats show that Kolisi has at best been an average performer at SuperXV level this year.

It is clear that Labuschagne is having more impact at the breakdown than Kolisi. 

A blind side flank has outperformed an opensider in fetching, which shows Labuschagne would actually be a better choice at 6 for the boks than the average Kolisi.

Deon Fourie was excellant at the Breakdown last year, I wonder what his stats were for the SuperXV were last year. He was also good at openside in the Curry Cup. 

It is ok for opensiders to be a bit smaller because bigger people typically take a bit longer to pick up speed, where smaller people can have more pace of the mark for speed over short distances.

Kolisi is a decent carrier but just seems like a small blindside flanker playing on the openside. No point having a small blindside flanker.