Despite down under pleas SA may ditch Super 15

 Cape Town - The assurance of having six teams in Super Rugby from 2016 may not be enough to stop South Africa from turning its back on the Southern Hemisphere competition.

SANZAR CEO Greg Peters on Tuesday gave SA Rugby Union (SARU) boss Jurie Roux his assurance that South Africa will have six Super Rugby teams from 2016. (These down under oaks are back peddaling as fast as they can as Jurie cracks the whip - no more the tail wagging the dog oaks!)

"We are very keen on making sure that we retain Super Rugby as the Southern Hemisphere's pre-eminent international provincial rugby competition," said Peters. (Quite so with out SA you guys will have the begging bowl out! Hahahhahahahahahaha)

"By doing that it has to be one competition. We have yet to determine the structure beneath that and the number of conferences involved but what I can assure you of though is that there will be six teams from South Africa."

SARU wanted the Super Rugby competition expanded to 16 teams to accommodate all six SA franchises, including the Kings - who played in this year's event at the expense of the Lions.

However, despite SARU's wish being granted, a report on the front page of Wednesday's Die Burger newspaper states that South Africa may yet decide to turn its back on Super Rugby.

The opportunity of forming a competition with French and English teams is reportedly better from a financial point of view due to the favourable time zones for broadcasters in South Africa and Europe.

The current broadcast rights deal for both hemispheres expires at the end of 2015, and South Africa's revenue could increase if they join a European competition, the report stated.

All this, if true gives SA tremedous clout. It appears the dwon under oaks have been found out. Jurie can also use this to insist on non biased refs and a more rquitable share of the revenue. meaning less for OZ and Nz. This could help us retain elite players.

Personally I prefer the SH competition but we are  in big trouble re retaining pplaters due to the extrem weakness of the rand. Some very naive oaks like ruggernutter wish of course to blame the esteemed Bok coach Meyer for a situation clealry not of his making. 

Anyhow Jurie you have them on the ropes no relenting now. Tell em straight how we are going to proceeed and who is baaas here.  And Please - insist that something is done re those kiwi refs. The Super 15 is badly marred each season by these miscreants so applauded by kiwi bird brains such as saSUE  JW (at any cost, the Cloudster, hakwa, Nuked kiwi, abnob, brycy, warped dud, moooooo al, poooooie, poly  etc etc.

What a motley crew of rascals to be sure!  One fervently hopes they do not decend into some violent clan warfare here lest we have our hands full containing the situation ! Watch out for any cyber haka - it could portend the begining of the end!!!!!!!!!!!.

 70% of the revenue is from South Africa, so if SA pull out then it would mean that Super Rugby would be allot poorer.

Apparently France, England and South Africa make up nearly all of the revenue in world rugby.

If a new tournament was created that involved all 3 of these, it could have repercussions to the game in NewZealand and Australia as it would become even more lucrative for NewZealand and Australian players to sign for foreighn clubs instead of Super clubs. 

Much like football where most of the top earning players have signed for European Clubs. 

It could also lead to more SA players signing for European clubs.

Beeno:  you reprobate, so we are back to being "kiwi bird brains" eh, lol

No Beeno, SA rugby is better off in the Southern Hemisphere as there are now so many players playing in Europe you would be playing with yourselves - so to speak. Is this what you have in mind?

JW lets think of this soberly and intelligently. This rules out many unfrotunately.

Boodle in the bank is the bottom line. Our exchange rate is so bad palyers are flooding overseas. We are in big trouble. What to do. 

Well as I suggested earlier Jurie need an alternative to bargain with. It appears he now has one. The Trog Peters knows he is whipped and is leaning over backwards to accomodate the South Africans. Its time for jurie to let them knwo who is baas. I we stay they dance to the SA pipers tune. Sa gets more revenue and Oz and Nz less. They can share the 30% amongst eachother. Say 15% each.

We have more money so less palyers leave. They have less money so more rugby players leave - if the NH wants them of course.

The whole trend is reversed. Add in a demand for fair refs and Bobs your uncle.

You see JW (at any cost) you have to be able to think strategically. Years ago I suggested for moral and strategic grounds we break the link between nz and the pacific islanders. nz rugby lives off these guys. 

Now it appears we may have a CEO who thinks strategically. We shall see. But Jurie has to sort out the revenue bit and the bent as boomerang nz refs . Then we can all relax and enjoy the rugby as we should be doing.

Go for the jugglar Jurie.

Another master piece of insight by Beeno.

Brother Bueno not very smart from SARU.

Romans 1;22 Professing themselves to be wise , they became fools..

Looks like the Mighty ABs have put the fear of God into thou and thou art running away with thine tails between thine legs..

 Between Brains you have all the " Insight " of a blind man at a silent movie !

pfffffffft, i say let em go, there super rugby teams are poo, they have three titles in the history of super rugby, they have 10 wooden spoons and have monoplised the bottom 3 spots on the lader in super rugby 50% of the time.

the Boks dont fare any better, in 16 years they have won 3 TriNat titles, and picked up the wooden spoon 10 times. there has only been one RC/4nats and what did the inclusion of the pumas do, yup u guessed, it meant that the Boks didnt pick up the wooden spoon like they normally do.

ill miss the regular SA vs NZ battles, but unlike some of the absolute snore festivals that weve seen when saffa teams play each other, the NZ v NZ battles have 9 times out of 10 made the game of the week,
other then the stormers and the bulls, we dont really get too much from playing the other teams, sure they get a win here and there, but all in all just look at their record as a whole an u know they have achieved sweet fuck all

lets face it kiwis, if we got asses handed to us on such a regular basis, we wouldnt want to play against such strong opposition either.

losing SA menas we can focus on australia our much neglected pacific island brothers, but mroe importantly the very lucrative japanese market.

saffas wont know this, but japan is the worlds biggest consumer of NZ rugby merchandise, they anime capital of the world love us there, so a deal can be worked out which would be mutually beneficial to both the ANZAC countries and the japanese empire, this is a bonus for me, cos japan is my favourite country outside of NZ.

mark my words though, SA wont be leaving, i can guarantee that much, they did the same thing when trying to push for a totally undeserved 6th team instead of australia getting an undeserved 5th team, and what happened, it turned out all that big talk from SARU was simple case of their bark was worse then their bite.

let em go, unlike the Springbok Jersey, the All Blacks jersey will ensure the bulk of our players stay home in NZ, with a few to be allowed sabbaticals.

SA leaving xuper rugby and joining Europe(England and France) would do two things imo.

1) No matter what the Kiwis say on here, Super Rugby would suffer financially. Especially for the first decade. Would New Zealand rugby suffer? Probably not. But If a league is struggling financially then there might not be any games to play.

2) South African Rugby would suffer. I watch a lot of Pro 12 and Premiership games, and South Africans playing in London in November, December, January, and February, while playing against lesser competition, would hurt SA rugby dearly if you ask me.

England, South Africa and France are the economic powerhouse of WorldRugby and could form a formidable tournament together.

Many of the best players in Australia and NewZealand could chase these salaries as well as what could become the premier rugby club competition in the world.

If 70% of the viewership was lost, surely this would mean that NewZealand and Australia would not be able to afford salaries to their players on par of what is offered now. This could mean a mass exodus of their best players to Europe to cash on where the viewers and money are. 

NewZealand would lose the experience of playing physical forward orientated teams and tighter defences, and would not be prepared for playing tests against the likes of England and France without the experience against South African teams.

Playing against Japan would probably make the physical aspect of the game even less, and I doubt that Japans market for Rugby is that great. Once the top rugby salaries are paid out for Worldclass players, the remainder of the salaries probably are meager in comparison. 

The pacfic Islands allready have many of their best players over in Europe as they do not have the financial resources to be in a competition like the SuperXV.

At the moment South Africa are subsidising both Australia and NewZealand because we do not take the amount of revenue from the deal that we should.

Australia demand for rugby is not that high given competition for other codes, and without SA they are not going to have 5 teams. It could be better though as then their teams would be stronger.

 large stain please get it right those fools mentioned are the ones who do not believe in God I do. Its "the fool (who) has said in his heart there is no God"

mYIIts a full time job educating these kiw bird brAins.

Of course sharkbok without SA ther kiws would be bankrupt as I said and it all down hill.

Jurie has shown them who calls the shots and hopefully he will deal with some issues

Cloudy I am sure the Pacific Islands would love to have their own thing going rather than being an appendage of nz. The nz exploitaiton of the PI countires is shameful and must end for moral reasons alone. They have of course done zip to help. Ditto Oz.

Very sad I am sure all reasonable folk will agree.

@sharkbok,

ur a saffa, so i know u dont understand the pulling power of the All Blacks jersye, we migth lose a few, but the bulk will stay with the expected usual exodus of some come after RWC.

also ever noticed how the All Blacks jersey is the most least tagged with advertisment sporting uniform on the planet???
notcie how AGI has only been there very recenetly its not even a year old, so how much would that have cost AGI a company who sponsors the likes of manchester united???
the exact figures werent released, but it was revealed that there was enough to pay for the salary of all players in the super XV, the national sevens team, the All Blacks and the staff ivolved and then some.

as much as u might want the kiwis to put some flair in what would be the most boring, french saffa pommie kcik fest, the reality is NZ wont lose its players the way u guys do, we might lose the likes of victor vito and players fo similar caliber, but the McCaws and carters, the incumbents will stay thanks to a wonderful thing called mana.

but this is a pointles argument, SARU alwyas cry wolf with these negotiations and while i say just let em go, they will stay exactly where they are, cos they know lesser competiton will in the long run make them as competittve as england have been against the All Blacks.
dont get me wrong, england still get the odd win against the All Blacks, i mean 10 years between drinks isnt that long.

japans ready to go to the next level, and theres as much money there as in SA, if not more.
the japanese might not be as storg competitvely like SA, but they will ease the financial loss which will be signficant i must admit.
but with australia and the PI islands, plus japan, we could really make it work and then some.

 saSUE just because rooinek would love an ab jersey - he probalby has about a dozen in his cupboard doesnt mean folk generally want such an article. Rooineks friend CC wanting a chiefs jersey is equally ununusual so dont get any false ideas becasue of these two.Nz might like them but no one else.

No the PI like everyone else would like their own show.

Sasuke,

New Zealand and Australia would lose players to that league(SA, France, England) which would make that league that much better, and the League the Kiwis are in that much weaker. A league of SA, France, and England would be the prominent league in the world.  Financially it would be better for SA to do it. But I think it would hurt the product.

As for the Kiwis, I think it would be in their best interests to not lose South Africa. I believe it would hurt all three countries. The Aussies would probably feel it the worst.

@beeno1 aka storminged,

it is easier for a camel to travel through the eye of a needle, then it is for u to educate anybody on anything.

some classic hits from beenos highlight reel -

1 if the ref is a kiwi, then the french might as well pack in thier bags and not bother to show up (beeno talking about the All Blacks/french test in june)

2 I wonder how these anti Meyer oaks explain his 70% win ratio - eliminate draws as being neutral..(Seems to me we won 7 lost 3 and drew 2?). (beeno talking about meyers 2012 winning percentage)

@canrugby,

"New Zealand and Australia would lose players to that league(SA, France, England) which would make that league that much better, and the League the Kiwis are in that much weaker."
there is no evidence to support that claim what so ever. in fact if u look at the current trend today around the world, NZ would have no problems holding onto their players.

NZ and australia for that matter have always struggled to match the dollar from overseas, but u only need to look at the player retnetion, especially from the All Blacks who if i remember correctly had the oldest squad at the RWC to know thats a trend thats unlikely to change.

the type of players NZ lose are those who have been fringe players for most of their careers like masaga and ranger, have injury plagued careers like kahui and borric, are in their twilight years like thorn and ali williams, or have returned like to ZN after short stints away like jerome kaino.

im telling u, if u think the likes of cruden and co would leave NZ just so the NH dont get bored to death from SA rugby ur sadly mistaken.

but again, same things were said in when SA wanted the kings and OZ wanted the rebels and we all know what happened there, this is much the same thing, but something i hope comes to fruition, cos it will make the Boks All Blacks tests all the more special and the saffas can leave the hardest comp in the world knowing that NZ won the rugby war

besides, japan has wanted to move to the next level and this is prime opportunity, the top clubs in japan throw money around that fund 10 saffa conferneces without breaking a sweat.

Never said the likes of Cruden and Co. were going anywhere.

Losing players like Masaga and Ranger will hurt the league competition though, and make the other one stronger. That's just a fact. That's what I'm saying.

As for Japan. If you want your boys helping them get to the next level then so be it... But I think that would be bad for New Zealand rugby.  Probably worse then SA playing in the north.

Again, I think SA leaving Super Rugby would hurt the product of all three countries... but maybe that' what the world of Rugby needs?? Some competitiveness brought back.

@canrugby,

ok players like masaga and ranger, well they are in NZ a dime a dozen, to be fair ranger he was really coming into his own this season and while he sigend his contract woth motipellier in 2012, he tried his best but to no avail to get out of it, but the financial repucussion was too much.

the fact that he tried to get out of it after realising just what kind of sway he was starting to pull in the All Blacks is testament enough though IMO to show the kind of pulling power the All Blacks power have.
but in general, those fringe players as mentioned earlier will be attracted overseas.

helping japan wouldnt be bad for NZ, u need to remember they are fileding some of the best talent money can buy at the moment, jp pieterson, tamati ellison, fourie du preez, peter grant, anderis bekker, jerome kaino, leilala masaga, richard kahui, kade poki, more then enough players to feild killer teams.
and on top of that there is still the australian conference, dont forget that OZ have done just as well as SA at both super rugby and TriNats level, but they have also had the better losing record bewteen them and SA, so effectively it will be the statistically weaker conference leaving the competition.

and after a few years of SA playing in the 6 nats or 7nats, they will be about as strong as the NH teams are now anyway, on the bright side they can improve their already top kicking game with other like minded nations, :oP

i still think this much a do about nothing, SARU are bit like that chiwawa, an ugly rodent of a dog that u just want to kick to shut up cos its bark is worst then its bite.
i honestly think SARU are trying to push the boundries and get the bulk of control of SANZAR, but like i said let them go, we have a whole new world out there that has needed to be explored, but leading nations plus the IRB have failed to develop them and SA leaving could be the push it has needed to kick start it.

i also think that this is more media then it is anything official, maybe done with SARUs blessing to test the waters without getting their feet wet, while they tell their SANZAR bros nah we dont know what the hell those guys are on about, o_O
LMAO, :oD

Knowing how stupid and ignorant our administrators are, I will not be surprised to see them cock everything up and have us take exit from the Super 15........what wankers and to think they get paid to make these decisions.

Look no further than the pathetic, disgraceful quota policy being introduced into the Vodacom Cup next year as a measure of how stupid these pricks are 

Sasuke, both CanRugby and I are not talking about  current match day first choice international squad players. 

These players get x2 salaries, a SuperXV salary and a Test Rugby salary.

It is more about the fringe players that have the most to gain as they only have SuperX salaries.

The likes of Rene Ranger who until recently could not bank on an international test salary, but only a SuperX salary. (If NewZealand are so rich from their new sponser, why then could they not afford to buy Rene out of his contract?). Rene has been the form outside back in NewZealand in the SuperX.

Money Bill Williams was not so loyal when he stopped playing for the AllBlacks to take a high pay cheque in Japan, and Carter enjoyed his sabatical in France getting paid for being injured most of the time he was there. (if these players were not offered All Black contracts for any reason, would they be staying around?)

Playing overseas means that the top SuperX players that are not test starters can earn more overseas, especially SA players. It will increase significantly if SA joins up with England/France. 

The viewership will increase drastically especially as the timezones are the same. 

Having a global season will be more possibale because SA/France/England will be playing in the same international club competitions.

Players would like this as it would give them more rest period (like 4 months) and not the annual season which is in place at the moment.

Robert Ebersomn is a prime example. As soon as he realised that Meyer was not taking him seriously for the boks, he cashed in on a French contract.

Matt Gitea was a prime example. If he only had a SuperX salary he would not be earning much.

However if he has  an international test salary as well as a SuperX salary then suddently this is comparable to what he is earning in France.

Matt Giteau even announced recently after the dismisal of the Robbie Deans from Australia that he might consider moving back to Australia. If he was younger he probably would be more keen as he would be a starter for the Wallabies and not just a Brumbies SuperX player like he was when he left Australia.

Japan is a big ecomony, much bigger than South Africa. However I doubt much of this would go to Rugby.

They can afford to pay for some big names like Jaque Fourie, Sonny Bill Williams etc, but after the top jobs are taken I reckon it is a big step down.

Jaque Fourie, Sonny Bill are on massive salaries but I doubt that the likes of Peter Grant are getting much more than what they can get in Europe.

Japan is also appealing for South African players because the different seasons allows them to get a SuperX salary and also a Japan salary- unlike just a European Salary. I will most likely mean an even longer season but this would be the case anyway if they were international test players.

SA leave and the salaries are going to go down for NewZealand and Australia. The pacific Islands does not have the infrastructure to bring commercial power to the tournament. (most of their players are playing for English clubs, and some now for the English test team). 

Japan I doubt has the interest in rugby to watch games on TV being played in another country in a different timezone on a consistent basis.

They have money but rugby is not a top sport in Japan. 

South Africa has got the shit end of the stick in travel and the tournament schedule since the inception of the tournament.

As soon as the travel situation improved- althought not made equal- it was noticeable that SA teams did better overseas and foreign teams did worse in South Africa. (All Teams from NewZealand should play 2-3 games in Souh Africa and then fly to Australia to finish their overseas tours, or the other way around. This will give all teams a 5 game away leg in the tournament). 

SARU probably should be running the show given that South Africa is the dominant party. If is was a company, then SA are the major shareholder and if anyone should call the shots it is South Africa.

What you also refer to as boring rugby, many people in the Northern Hemishpere think that the SuperXV is a total joke on defence, and this is the main reason for all the tries. 

I have watched Sky Sports and ex-professionals from the Northern Hemishpere run SuperRugby down as not traditional rugby which is an arm wrestle for space and territory. Instead it is more about scoring tries from turnovers and counter attacks than sustained multi-phase territorial domination.

the sad truth is super rugby is shit its been shit ever since theu expand from supet 10. south africa doesnt really have anything to stay for in sh. heck i wish australia could breakaway from new zealands bullshit cheating alls the time. so yeah good on sarugby. do what is best for you thats the wau to ne top dog. better money better rugby and more entertainment beyter logistics you be funking stupid not to do it!

 sharkbok its true defrnce and set pieces are total pig shit sloppy. its killing the sh but hey as long as its fast lots of tries and new zealamd cheating to top its all great and you guys who control the money get raped endlessly. it eould be sad to see boks go but you guys cant do worse than go north.

Robert Ebherson is a great example.

What is hapenning to SA rugby now will start to happen to Kiwi rugby if SA leaves. Your fringe players, and players on the down slope of their careers, will move to the SA, French and Engish league for the big pay day. Why not? They're not being selected to play for the All Blacks so what's the point?

You will have 20 or so top flight players playing in a overall mediocre league.

I believe Sharkbok is right as well with the paying structure of Japanese teams. I could be completeyl wrong, but I'm pretty sure they couldn't pay more then a couple of guys what they're paying SBW. And to build strong competitve teams in a strong league you need more then 2 or 3 good players on each team.

Sasuke, I think you saying you'd join with the Japanese with no problems is you knowing that SA won't pull out. If you were actually faced with the threat of SA leaving you'd think twice before saying that.

 back to isolation again Beens?

@sharkbok,

"Sasuke, both CanRugby and I are not talking about  current match day first choice international squad players.
These players get x2 salaries, a SuperXV salary and a Test Rugby salary.
It is more about the fringe players that have the most to gain as they only have SuperX salaries."
it was not necessary to mention this as canrugby already explained it in the post preceding urs to which i agreed and will reiterate the main point, so whats new about that??? its always happened and always will.

"The likes of Rene Ranger who until recently could not bank on an international test salary, but only a SuperX salary. (If NewZealand are so rich from their new sponser, why then could they not afford to buy Rene out of his contract?). Rene has been the form outside back in NewZealand in the SuperX."
why would the NZRU fork out that much money for one player??? i wish they had, as he was the best center in the comp and hardly anyone can stop him,
but do the All Blacks need him??? no, the All Blacks dont need anyone, the team is bigger then any one player, so why would the NZRU fork out $300,000 or 2,5 million rand when the reality is we dont need him???
logical business decisions are bound to be puzzling after having SARU run everything like some two bit bob market vendor which u boys have dealt with for yonks.

"Money Bill Williams was not so loyal when he stopped playing for the AllBlacks to take a high pay cheque in Japan, and Carter enjoyed his sabatical in France getting paid for being injured most of the time he was there. (if these players were not offered All Black contracts for any reason, would they be staying around?)"
is that really what happened with SBW??? u need to get ur facts straight
SBW had already before signing to the NZRU back in 09 had a handshake agreement to return to the NRL in 2013.
khoder then got the japanese contract for SBW for after the 2012 spXV season.
and when all this went down theres one important thing to remember, SBW while not exactly a fringe player, he wasnt a starting All Black XV either, always finding himself on the bench.
had SBW been the incumbent, he still would have left for league, but as he suggested in an interview after the 2nd beldisloe, in hindsight he would have preferred to play in the RC/4nats.

"Having a global season will be more possibale because SA/France/England will be playing in the same international club competitions."
i think there does need to be a global season,
but i cant help but wonder if SARU had no teeth when they had the bulk of the money in SANZAR, how effective are the going to be with the french and english???

"Players would like this as it would give them more rest period (like 4 months) and not the annual season which is in place at the moment."
ur forgetting the hempisphere differences, england and france arent going to budge and SA will have to play when they play rugby, this means the bulk of rugby will be played in summer SA time.
SARU will have to change the currie cup to coincide with the top 14 and avia league and just how much are the NH going to love the prospect of playing rugby in a SA summer??? o_O
LMAO, :oP im telling u right now, its not going to happen.

"Robert Ebersomn is a prime example. As soon as he realised that Meyer was not taking him seriously for the boks, he cashed in on a French contract."
i dont know why this point keeps getting mentioned, its been done already.

"Matt Gitea was a prime example. If he only had a SuperX salary he would not be earning much.
However if he has  an international test salary as well as a SuperX salary then suddently this is comparable to what he is earning in France."
no matt is not a good example, he made more money overseas then he did with a super rugby contract and the wallabies bonus, the difference is, the money wasnt chump change but he had a chance to be playing at the RWC and get his 100 test caps.
it didint pan out that way, so he left.

"Jaque Fourie, Sonny Bill are on massive salaries but I doubt that the likes of Peter Grant are getting much more than what they can get in Europe."
how is that any different to what might happen should this SA fantasy come true??? SA entering into a hypothetical union with england and france isnt going to raise player salaries to a level thats going to be phenomenal.
like i said they will recurit the fringe players like has happened since the begging when the game turned pro, but theres nothing to suggest a mass exodus, no matter how desperate u are to liven the rugby up with attacking play.

"SA leave and the salaries are going to go down for NewZealand and Australia. The pacific Islands does not have the infrastructure to bring commercial power to the tournament. (most of their players are playing for English clubs, and some now for the English test team)."
wrong, the money from the AGI was used by the NZRU for salaries and grassroots. if anything was to happen, it would betaken out on ITM level players like they did for two season when the recession hit. ITM players were only paid for games they played and by their respective unions with zero help from NZRU for anything.
whitle it couldnt be proven at the time, canterbury suspiciously started to grow their player stock while all this was going down.
i have complete faith in the NZRU, they will be aware of a worst case scenario, but like i said, let em go, SA wa good for honing our skills, btu numbers dont lie, SA are the weakest of the SANZAR partnership in terms of rugby power.

"Japan I doubt has the interest in rugby to watch games on TV being played in another country in a different timezone on a consistent basis..
They have money but rugby is not a top sport in Japan."
fail on so many levels!!!
japan has the 4th biggest rugby playing population in the world.
the top league is regularly in the top 10 most watched most weekends and the level below sees record audience numbers every year.

"South Africa has got the shit end of the stick in travel and the tournament schedule since the inception of the tournament.
As soon as the travel situation improved- althought not made equal- it was noticeable that SA teams did better overseas and foreign teams did worse in South Africa. (All Teams from NewZealand should play 2-3 games in Souh Africa and then fly to Australia to finish their overseas tours, or the other way around. This will give all teams a 5 game away leg in the tournament)"
and how many super rugby titles have SA won since spXV started???
its not the travel, thats just one of the many excuses SA uses to justify the reality is that SA teams are strong, but nothing that cant be handled as the numbers clearly indicate.
look at the spXV semis
2013 - bulls lost in loftus
2012 - stormers lost in newlands to a sharks team had returned from OZ  in the same week
2011 -  stormers smashed by the crusaders who had not played one home game all season

"SARU probably should be running the show given that South Africa is the dominant party. If is was a company, then SA are the major shareholder and if anyone should call the shots it is South Africa."
yeah, cos theyve done a bang up job with SA rugby, LMAO, :oD
ever heard of saffa praise SARU fro being competent???u should do it now sharkbok and be the first one.

"What you also refer to as boring rugby, many people in the Northern Hemishpere think that the SuperXV is a total joke on defence, and this is the main reason for all the tries."
dont even bother, SA rugby aint pretty to watch period, take out the cheetahs and the 2013 SA darbies could have been used by anesthesiologist as a legitimate drug before surgery.