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FORUM / RUGBY /  Did the ref get it right in the All Blacks vs England?; The Roar

Did the ref get it right in the All Blacks vs England?; The Roar

Started by Just_win13 REPLIES302 VIEWS· 08 Jun 2014, 18:52
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JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Jun 2014, 18:52
#1
08 Jun 2014, 18:52#1

The simple, short answer is no. The longer, more complicated answer is yes.

Having traded kicks, the English made an early line break down the centre of the field from good field position through their captain Chris Robshaw.

As he approached the fullback, he looked over his left shoulder for support to where a teammate was being pulled back by Ma’a Nonu.

The play continued, and unable to capitalise on the correctly officiated advantage, the referee brings them back for the penalty. It is the first minute of the game and it should have been a yellow card.

Maybe I’m being too harsh on Nonu – I’m sure I’ll be informed in the comments if this is the case – but it looked a professional foul to me. Put it down to luck, but he stayed on the pitch and England took the 3 points.

The second incident took place in the 56th minute. On the back of a good scrum, Aaron Cruden went down the blind side with Jerome Kaino in support, chipped and chased resulting in a scramble on the line before Kaino knocked the ball on. An English scrum on their five-metre line resulted.

Once again I might be being too harsh, but on the replay it looked like in the attempt to clear the ball Cruden was tripped, and quite viciously. Neither the players nor the commentators made mention of this – the bounce of the ball excuse is easily applied – but this should have been a red card.

So those are the two incidents I deemed noteworthy.

But it gets murkier still. For all my qualms with the refereeing of these two incidents, the game was contested by two worthy opponents. Both teams dropped plenty of ball, had their chances and all three results were possible from the final play. It was a wonderful game for a neutral fan.

Should it have happened differently? Maybe, but it is one of the most tragic conditions that we as a species find in this universe that so far we can only travel in one direction through time.

As an Australian, the result was never going to bother me, but English fans can feel hard done by that Nonu wasn’t carded. And so the speculation begins.

Nigel Owens had a fantastic match and as a result the match itself was wonderful. I look forward to the game next week.

JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
08 Jun 2014, 18:54
#2
08 Jun 2014, 18:54#2
 Yet another opinion on the eternal/infernal debate about the ref.
IH
Ihaki77
Newbie10 posts
IH
Ihaki77Newbie10 posts
08 Jun 2014, 19:00
#3
08 Jun 2014, 19:00#3
 JW.... I think Nonu should have got a card(yellow) but it would not have made a difference to the end results.
RU
Rugganut
Club Pro183 posts
RU
RugganutClub Pro183 posts
09 Jun 2014, 03:48
#4
09 Jun 2014, 03:48#4
England were robbed by the ref.
Yellow card for Nonu, 2 knockons, which were clearly knocked backwards and towards the end with England in the red zone, Fekitoha should have been carded, instead penalty. Justin Marshall voiced his opinion which supports this, in all the cases.
Would this have effected the game ? Yes England would have won. (4 key calls effects the outcome of a test match)
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Jun 2014, 07:57
#5
09 Jun 2014, 07:57#5
Yes, the infernal debate that seems to be part of the game now. 
New technology, new role for the "assistant ref"; better administrative oversight, review of every performance by an official panel with penalties for poor performance, refinement of interpretations for refs, consultations with coaches prior to the game to talk about refs approach to the game... & still the infernal debate. 
Ah well, we have to accept it as part of the game cause it ain't going to go away. Bottom line, one team won & one lost. Next game please...
BE
becs
Pro4,378 posts
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
09 Jun 2014, 15:01
#6
09 Jun 2014, 15:01#6
 Nigel Owens was appalling. That is the end of the debate. He had possibly the worst game I have seen from him, which was a surprise as he usually fair and balanced. It should have been 2 Yellow Cards, that is a fact. It cost us 2 Tries. plain and simple. If it had been the other way around, I would have been honest enough to admit it. I have no qualms about Yarde getting his Card....only the fact that the NZ players were let off theirs.
The knock on situation was ridiculous and cost us dearly. It is fine margins on which matches are won and lost. This was another appalling error. Again, I would be honest enough to criticise if it had been the other way around ( please ask my opinion of the Saints/Sarries Prem Final if you doubt my honesty !! )

Would we have won if he had Reffed the match well and done the above correctly ? Maybe. We deserved to, even with our " insult " of a team. One that is not our B team, one that has been thrown together and will probably never play together again. They did us, and themselves, proud...something we could only ask for.


As for our wings....Yarde has been out for a long while this Season, injured. He is just finding his feet again and that was his second or third cap with a new midfield and ten !! May has a handful of caps too. And let's not forget, Burns crossed the line....disallowed for a forward pass. So, he did that and Haskell would have scored if Nonu hadn't shirt pulled like a girl....and we had the pushover too...if they hadn't laid all over the ball and fouled there. So that would have been three tries, right ? 

Yeah, useless old, insult of a team !! 

We will be different come Saturday. We will probably lose all three Tests. But I hope we hold our own and improve and get some combinations going. I am pleased by our improvements and our attitude. 

I can see good things building.
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
09 Jun 2014, 15:09
#7
09 Jun 2014, 15:09#7
 Becs no fair minded poster can quibble with your take. In his heart of hearts ou JW agrees with you.Let' s hope the reffing improves next game. 
JW
Just_win
Captain18,570 posts
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
09 Jun 2014, 18:27
#8
09 Jun 2014, 18:27#8

Becs: I am sure your team will improve and this will be a real test in the full sense of the word. ABs need to improve a lot as the coach & everyone else has said. Looking forward to a great game this weekend. Are any other teams playing?

AB
ABasquefan
Pro2,549 posts
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
10 Jun 2014, 01:43
#9
10 Jun 2014, 01:43#9
 hahahahahahahahaha poms and saffas whining together for 2 knock-ons (and the first one was indeed a knock-on though it seemed otherwise in the replay shooted from a very bad angle)

don't you even read what is written in the same thread where you are going to post or what? if you consider an influential mistake not to have shown Nonu a yellow card, you should consider in the same way, if not worse, not to have shown Yarde a red for tripping Aaron Smith (not Cruden as it said in the article).
Feikitoa's wasn't a yellow, which article says that all the offenses made in the red zone must be penalised with a yellow?

very funny also this late custom of introducing what Justin Marshall says as an irrefutable proof when the guy is a joke and says what the one who pays him want to hear
BE
becs
Pro4,378 posts
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
10 Jun 2014, 03:20
#10
10 Jun 2014, 03:20#10
 Would you have shown Jamie Joseph a Red Card for snapping Kyran Bracken's ankle ligaments at Twickenham many moons ao ? I don't believe that resulted in much censure at all. But would you ? No ? Didn't think so. He played on, if you recall. Had his foot strapped to his boot and that incident, his first Cap just for the record, actually did him damage that blighted the rest of his career. But hey, he's only English, so it doesn't count a jot, does it ?

You might also recall the horrific injury Phil de Glanville suffered in the Divisional match during that very same Tour. He had his face torn off. I'm not sure how many stitches he had, but he never looked the same again, it was a disgusting and cowardly act. Brutal, in fact.
The players knew who did it but did anyone face any form of censure ? No, of course not. Why would they ?
Or you might not recall any of this happening at all. Because you probably didn't watch those matches.

So, when you start blathering on about how the absolutely sure fire cards that should have been given on Saturday....which did cost us tries and were blatant cheating by NZ...and try and make out that Nigel Owens was not biased and unfair in his reffing, just think about the past incidents that NZ have got away with and give it a rest.
We're all bored with it.

The facts of the matter are that for too long they have got away with too much and have been treated with kid gloves. No-one should be more scared of them that of any other opponant...respect should be given to everyone you play against but to be so damned awestruck of mere mortals simply plays into their hands. You have given them a lead before you even start.
Get out there and play, if you are beaten by a better opponant, fairly and squarely, then so be it. But this was not fair and square. It was a lop-sided affair and there should be answers as to why this happened.

I don't care one iota what Justin Marshall says. I have never quoted that man in my life. I just know what I watched and what I saw from the first few minutes when Nonu started cheating like mad.


MO
moolaa
Pro2,380 posts
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
10 Jun 2014, 12:59
#11
10 Jun 2014, 12:59#11
 Becs, Nonu pulling the English forward's jumper did not cost you a try! That happened a long way from the try line and if you have a look at the replay, there was plenty of ABs to come across to make the necessary tackle(s).It MAY have cost you a try but it's a total exaggeration on your part to claim it as a certainty. Open the other eye during games and a whole new world will appear!One day we all hope Hasbeeno does the same!  
MO
MO(NH)
Club Pro426 posts
MO
MO(NH)Club Pro426 posts
10 Jun 2014, 13:59
#12
10 Jun 2014, 13:59#12
 Becs,
Good post have to say I agree with you. Nigel Owens is usually fair but to me he did show bias towards NZ. I was very impressed with the side England put out and by the time the RWC comes around they will be a threat to all.
BE
becs
Pro4,378 posts
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
10 Jun 2014, 14:22
#13
10 Jun 2014, 14:22#13
 Hello MO(NH) I have posted more than once about this match and the way it was reffed blah blah blah. I think he is usually a very fair Ref but he was appalling on Saturday. Why, we will never know. Would we have won if he had done things differently ? Who knows ? Probably not. Will we win any of the other Tests ? Probably not. But I absolutely abhor one-eyed, hypocritical nonsense and unfairness. He was blatant on Saturday and it was not right.Both teams made myriad errors but I was incredibly heartened by my lot that had been written off as an " insult " that would lose by 50 points or more. I knew they wouldn't and I know we have some very good players here. It was just asking an awful lot of them to get together under those circumstances, some who have played little Rugby this year through some nasty old injuries, and most that are carrying knocks and all that are rather worn out after a long hard Season. But they need not fear a bunch of Rugby players from another country. That's all they are. Men who play Rugby. Respect your opposition and play them accordingly. At least we know their names and their talents, unlike the men we faced on Saturday, who can't even have the manners to name the players they will be facing in opposition. That's the difference, you see. Saturday will be a different kettle of fish and we all know that NZ will be better, hopefully, so will we. I just hope we continue to improve and develop as the Tour progresses. I'm also very proud of the way we conduct ourselves, really. It's good to see. I have faith in them and I was so pleased to see the likes of Webber and Burns have such good games. I always knew Lancaster was the man for the job.
And as for the " Red Card Offence "......I have watched that back. YARDE KICKED THE BALL THROUGH THE LEGS OF SMITH, I REPEAT, HE KICKED THE BALL AS THEY WERE CHASING BACK TOWARDS THE LINE. HE KICKED THE BALL FROM BEHIND THE PLAYER, THROUGH HIS LEGS AND HE MADE CONTACT WITH THE BALL. IF HE CAUGHT THE PLAYER. SO, STOP TRYING TO MAKE THINGS UP. THE REST OF THE RUGBY WORLD KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT MATCH. SO GROW UP !!!
MD
Monkey D Luffy
Pro6,277 posts
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
10 Jun 2014, 17:29
#14
10 Jun 2014, 17:29#14
i remember when ruan pienaar held back our winger (rockoco i think) in an All Black/Bok test and he got away scot free too, should have been yellowed carded though, just like nonu should have been.

but to argue that a try was an absolute certainty is one eyed speculation at its best.
All Blacks may have been kak that night, but their scrambling defence wasnt testament to the fact that england were kept tryless for the first time since wales in 2013 and never looked like scoring again.

IMO that trip looked a lot worse on slow mo replay then it does in normal speed, so not a card offense, but should have been a penalty.

i always said the first test was going to be the toughest of the three, so i wasnt surprised with how it turned out.
and as a veteran of sarugby.com, im so use to SA national anthem of it was the refs fault, i mean owens who normally is a level headed ref has a complete shocker in the All Blacks favour, pfffffffft, guess he can join the club with members like joubert and peyper, o_O
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