Discussion of AB vs Argies game

Well the ABs brought in a lot of new players (I think it was 7) so they were a little disjointed but still got the win. Argies asl brought in a lot of new players so no excuses there.
I'm glad Hansen is trying to build up the ABs with the development of new players. It's a long season and players need to be managed plus one eye is always on the RWC.
Here are the ratings by Rugby 365:
Rugby 365

OPINION: NEW ZEALAND AGAIN SHOWED THEIR ABILITY TO PUT TEAMS AWAY IN THE FINAL QUARTER OF MATCHES, BUT THERE IS A NEW STAR - ALREADY SHINING BRIGHTLY.

 

Loose forward Vaea Fifita - who can also play lock - produced a blinder in the All Blacks' 39-22 win over Argentina's Los Pumas in New Plymouth on Saturday.

 

His debut try in the 51st minute turned the game on its head.

 

Jan de Koning rates the New Zealand players!

 

15 Damian McKenzie:

His ability to make linebreaks and set up other players for tries. He is also solid under the high ball and scored a great try.

7/10

 

14 Israel Dagg:

Still dangerous with ball in hand, but had a couple of soft moments.

6/10

 

13 Anton Lienert-Brown:

ALB is back with a bang. His defence still requires some work and three turnovers conceded are too many.

6/10

 

12 Sonny Bill Williams:

Works like a lightning conductor, attracting lots of attention from defenders.

6/10

 

11 Nehe Milner-Skudder:

Showed he has not lost his finishing ability and attacking threats. Could work a bit harder on defence though.

7/10

 

10 Beauden Barrett:

His creative skills still light years ahead of his peers. However, it is pity his goal-kicking is not matching the rest of his game and his discipline has become a major problem.

4/10

 

9 Thomas Perenara:

His service was from the top shelve, his decision making spot on and he had two try-assists.

7/10

 

8 Kieran Read (captain):

His work on defence and quality of play off the back of set pieces are massive attributes, to go with world class captaincy.

8/10

 

7 Ardie Savea:

Some good work in the close-in exchanges and on defence. Ball in hand was one of his quieter games.

6/10

 

6 Vaea Fifita:

Got into the game early with a couple of strong carries. His pace to score a try when the All Blacks were a man down proved vital. Is there a rookie of the year award on the horizon?

9/10

 

5 Brodie Retallick:

Still one of the most productive locks in the world, despite the odd missed tackle.

7/10

 

4 Luke Romano:

His hands let him down on occasion and his workrate leaves question marks over his ability at international level.

5/10

 

3 Nepo Laulala:

He was strong in the scrums and his basics are good, but his workrate must improve.

6/10

 

2 Dane Coles:

His workrate is from the top shelve and despite the odd missed tackle, he remains one of the premium hookers in the world.

6/10

 

1 Joe Moody:

Massive influence in the scrums - winning crucial penalties. His support play and pace with ball in hand are also great attributes. One wonders how serious his shoulder injury is?

8/10

 

Replacements:

 

16 Codie Taylor (on for Coles, 69th min):

Not enough time to be rated.

 

17 Wyatt Crockett (on for Moody, 65th min):

The first time he was noticed is when he complained to the referee. He did make one carry, without making any progress.

5/10

 

18 Ofa Tu'ungafasi (in for Laulala, 69th min):

Not enough time to be rated.

 

19 Scott Barrett (in for Romano, 53rd min):

Did some hard yards in the dark spaces where cameras don't always pick up flash players.

6/10

 

20 Sam Cane (on for Savea, 44th min):

His work on defence was immense. Few chances with ball in hand.

7/10

 

21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow (on for Perenara, 67th min):

Not enough time to be rated.

 

22 Lima Sopoaga (on for Dagg, 50th min):

He ran the game brilliantly and gave a masterclass in flyhalf play when the All Blacks desperately need somebody to take control.

8/10

 

23 Ngani Laumape (on for Williams, 76th min):

Not enough time to be rated.

 

By Jan de Koning

@king365ed

@rugby365com

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I would have given  Romano a 6 or 7. He had a lot of good ball carries and was involved in a lot. Especially in the first half.

Ardie showed us that it's tough for him to play as the starter as he has to be grinding it out and making a lot of tackles throughout the game. I think 6 is fair.

Fifita is a force to be reckoned with & I'm sure the coaches are developing him. We have to see how he does with the tough normal work a 6 does but we have seen his speed and skills alread.

 The scores for Read and SBW are too high. Fifita was great.

 ASgree with Draad on the ratings of Williams and Read being too high.   
On the whole Barrett  at flyhalf had a horrible game - way below expectations.
   

 Barrett's kicking from the tee was a major problems. His general play seemed ok to me and he did score that try.  A 4 rating seems about right taking into account the yellow. I thought Read was a 7 he had some good play off the back of the scrum. There was one botched lineout that resulted in a Puma try but when I saw the lineout live there was some skulduggery.

 Agreed JW.

 Interesting to note the tackle stats for the ABs for loose forwards:
Fifita    4 made 1 missedSavea  13 made 0 missedRead    9 made 2 missed
Fifita will have to do more defensively. Tackle stats for Read are low.
For backs SBW had the most tackles with 8 followed by TJ with 7. SBW also had a turnover, TJ was the only other back with a TJ who also had 1. Based on stats perhaps SBW didn't have such a bad game.

 Amazingly Fifita beat 11 defenders, more than any other AB on the field. He also had the most meters gained. His defense is where he needs to improve.

 IMO Read's rating as well as the comments about his game are very correct,... "world class capitancy"

a pity we won't see Moody facing the boks front row,... and a blow for the AB his very probably ending season injury (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11920408 )
he was in the form of his life,.... becoming the best loosehead in the world
cannot understand why he was retained so long in the game,... Crockett is a very capable replacement and should have entered the game by the 50-55 minute,...
he will do it well starting the rest of the year,... but I'm not convinced with Kanes as the bench replacement,... there are better looseheads in NZ,... Pauliasi Manu, Daniel Lienert-Brown, or even Alex Hodgman (who destroyed Kanes in the last NPC game's scrums btwin Canterbury and Tasman)

Sopoaga was excellent,... ga ve the team the structure and calmness they were lacking,... he's screaming for a starting spot,... and it's probably the best current option for the AB, to play Sopoaga at 10 and shift Barrett to the FB,... with Ioane and Dagg on the wings

SBW is at the most an impact player from the bench,... play Crotty-ALB in the midfield,...

9. A. Smith   10. L. Sopoaga

12. R. Crotty   13.. ALB

11. R. Ioane   14. I. Dagg   15. B. Barrett

21. TJ Perenara   22. SBW   23. NMS/Naholo

 ...mate, never heard of Kanes...but that has got to be the most rubbish game i've ever seen the All Blacks play aside from a few moments of brilliance from the likes of Fifita and DMac......obviously it was just our B team giving a few fringe players the opportunity to state their case - good move by Hansen resting players given it was only Argentina but just looked like the ABs could'nt give a sh!t i.e they were severely lacking in intensity...that laid back Kiwi attitude will turn around and bite us in the butt one of these days ...

ABF, Hansen has some decisions to make and the Boks should give us a good game so he shouldn't experiment too much. Barrett's boot is proving unreliable or at best inconsistent, that's why Argentina were still in the game until late. So, does that mean we have to have two kickers on the field at the same time and if so who, e.g. McKenzie at 15? So this Barrett problem impacts who plays at 10 and 15.
For sure I would play Crotty if he's fit with his form and leadership ability is a must. ALB hasn't shown anything special in tests so far. I agree SBW has been less than special but I think Hansen will pick him to start and so would I. My picks would be:
9. A. Smith 10. Barrett; 12 SBW; 13 Crotty; 14 Dagg (if fit, if not NMS); 11 Ioane; 15. McKenzie (can cover wing & 10 in emergency, plus can kick goals); 21. TJ. 22 ALB; 23; NMS if Dagg can play.; If Dagg cannot play I would have Naholo at 23.

Not often you see the ABs complacent but looked like they didnt take Pumas very seriously.
Read did look a bit subdued so don't know why he gets such a high ranking. When they have to say your captaincy was good to find a compliment usually means you had an average game.
TJ was v good. Smith might struggle to get his jersey back.

  I think I made a kind of acronym with Kane Hames' name in my head,... but I supose you know who I was talking about
don't think it was such a bad game,... the argies improved big way playing a far better organized and structured game and, very importantly, keeping the discipline,... they played some good 50-60 first minutes as they usually do against the AB,... then the AB showed some character coming back with 14 men,... and they end up outscoring the argies 6 tries to 1,... with some good rugby in the last quarter of the game

what I found worrying is the last tend to run laterally,... not only McKenzie did it which is  a kind of his trade-mark when pressured by the opposite defense,.... but ALB and NMS were also running laterally with the resulting disorganization of the attack,... is it something contagious?

 for some articles and comments here and in other sites seems that people is expecting the AB to always demolish their opponents throughout the 80 minutes,.... and that's something almost impossible to achieve,....  or simply impossible

an example of this:

Underwhelming All Blacks not a safe bet any more

PHIL GIFFORD

Last updated 22:07, September 9 2017

Honesty call. Seven tests for the All Blacks this season so far. Just two you'd call right up to scratch, and one walkover, against an underpowered Samoan side.

On Saturday night in New Plymouth, the All Blacks were such red-hot favourites they were at one cent on the dollar at the TAB for a win.

Playing the Pumas, whipped by 18 and 22 points by the Springboks so far in the Rugby Championship, the game in Taranaki shaped as more like a training run for the All Blacks than a fully-fledged test.

Oops. If the first test against the Wallabies in Dunedin was a shock, the first 40 on Saturday night was straight out weird. The second spell was, of course, a huge improvement, but until halftime there were bizarre elements you don't expect to see in a team with the terrific talents and track record the All Blacks have.

Or the obsession with stab kicks through, that spread from Barrett to, of all people, Kieran Read. It worked like a charm for Anton Lienert-Brown's try in the 18th minute, but all the vast majority of the little kicks did was turn the ball over.

Or the number of times the Pumas were able to disrupt the breakdowns by the simple process of arriving in greater numbers, and with much greater intensity.

But the main worry now is that the All Blacks' great advantage over every other team in the world from the time they marched to victory in the 2011 World Cup, an unmatched skill level, threatened to desert them.

Just why that is will be keeping the All Black coaching team awake at night. Because while the Nehe Milner-Skudder try that started the game was executed perfectly, the Israel Dagg try was, to be blunt, basically fluky, when a Barrett pass bounced up for Dagg.

In the past, the All Blacks have not only been Rolls Royce-smooth with passing attacks but accurate and daring in the air. On Saturday night Damian McKenzie was fearless, but largely unsuccessful, and too long for comfort the New Zealand passing was laboured.

Full credit, channelling Sean Fitzpatrick, to the All Blacks' determination which brought them roaring back into the game, a pattern which has been a feature for a decade now.

(...)

full article: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/96683763/phil-gifford-underwhelming-all-blacks-not-a-safe-bet-any-more

to begin with there were many new faces and combinations,... and that means the need of time to fit together,... but mainly that the opposition also counts

against the AB every team go out to give all they have (as the argies did),... if they win they are making history (as the irish did) or saving their whole campaign,... that's a lot of pressure week in week out over the team,...

and also the opposition evolves,... to last year's AB' rampant attack almost impossible to stop, the opposite teams (from the B&I Lions to the aussies or argies) have answered with a rushing defense that is making things more difficult

but there seems to be many short memories over there also,... the argies always have had some very good first 50-60 minutes,... last year during the perfect Rugby Championship (where the AB won all the 6 games with all the possible 6 bonus points) the argies were trailing by only 2 points (24-22) with 25 minutes remaining,... and the AB end up outscoring them 8 tries to 1 (quite similar to what happened this saturday)

there were some amazing comments to this article,... probably the most was:

Benice
ABs have been mistake-prone and havent played their best since the World Cup final in 2015. The 1st half of the 1st Lions test was the closet they got to a good performance but they have been poor since the RWC final. They need to sharpen up, cut out their mistakes and keep the foot on the throat.

  2 replies                                    +1

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really amazing that someone can find poor a team that lost some very important players after the WC (the captain plus Carter, Woodcock, Nonu, Smith,...) and was in a restructuration phase to win 18 from 21 games and to lose only 2 of them,... there's no team in any sport that can get close to it

they played the perfect Rugby Championship last year, they established a new winning record (for ier one nations), they won the aussies for a total 108-27 points, etc, etc, etc,.... to improve this, almost means to be perfect,... which is impossible

BeniceABs have been mistake-prone and havent played their best since the World Cup final in 2015. The 1st half of the 1st Lions test was the closet they got to a good performance but they have been poor since the RWC final. They need to sharpen up, cut out their mistakes and keep the foot on the throat. 

• 2 replies

+1BeniceABs have been mistake-prone and havent played their best since the World Cup final in 2015. The 1st half of the 1st Lions test was the closet they got to a good performance but they have been poor since the RWC final. They need to sharpen up, cut out their mistakes and keep the foot on the throat. 

• 2 replies

+1BeniceABs have been mistake-prone and havent played their best since the World Cup final in 2015. The 1st half of the 1st Lions test was the closet they got to a good performance but they have been poor since the RWC final. They need to sharpen up, cut out their mistakes and keep the foot on the throat. 

• 2 replies

+1BeniceABs have been mistake-prone and havent played their best since the World Cup final in 2015. The 1st half of the 1st Lions test was the closet they got to a good performance but they have been poor since the RWC final. They need to sharpen up, cut out their mistakes and keep the foot on the throat. 

• 2 repl

 Good observations ABF. I gave my opinion on this on another thread:
Winning every game is always a priority but the main goal is to have the best team for the RWC. In the last couple of cycles we have been able to win almost every game and win the RWC & as fans we are so spoiled. We may lose a few along the way but as long as it is clear that we are progressing in building the best RWC team I am not going to get over excited about a loss or two.

 Still think Mo'unga should be brought into the extended squad even if for the EOYT...first five is so key to the whole set up of the team and we should be cultivating more depth there before the next RWC ...and now Cruden and his deft passing game has gone it's noticeable SBW is'nt being put into the holes like he used to and his talents are being wasted ...the backline is disorganised and it's all far too predictable...Cruden used to control the game better than anyone, he'd mix things up and had the opposition in two minds as to what he was going to do next... but now even Argentina can read the play and made us look like amateurs...
..now we are reading in the media and from rugby commentators that Barret should be relocated to fullback ....could strangle some of these dopes who the penny has only just dropped for....as that was where he started his winning ways for NZ U20s at fullback under Cruden who was U20's captain at the time...but Hansen is happy to persevere with the status quo despite a loss to Ireland and failure to win the Lions series..