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FORUM / RUGBY /  Dr Allende - Ball killer

Dr Allende - Ball killer

Started by Plum28 REPLIES967 VIEWS· 17 Jun 2018, 11:13
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PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Jun 2018, 11:13
#1
17 Jun 2018, 11:13#1

Another shyte display from a 12 who can't hold the ball in a tackle.


He lost it on numerous occasions and one of those resulted in a 70m territorial loss. We went from a wonderful attacking position to defending on our own line.


He also fails to understand how to time his passes or even that he MUST pass when there is space outside.


Other backs also made mistakes but DDA never seems to redeem himself.


He had one break and got run down by everyone. No pace either.


The question is, what does he actually offer?


Easily the worst back for the Boks yesterday.


Esterhuizen will start next week and show that it doesn't take four years of test caps to play at 12 with a semblance of respectability.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,255 posts
17 Jun 2018, 11:22
#2
17 Jun 2018, 11:22#2
With Delande taking most of the kickoffs, I was starting to think that perhaps he should be a number 7 flank. He would be better without a fixed position on the field like centre and could play more of a roaming role. 
Rohan JVR started well as a new Bok prospect- but unfortunately is now a cart horse. His defence is also poor, and he has gotten fatter and slower, more resembling a prop.
Esterhuizen is a must, as his game is the most all-rounded player. His defence is top notch, he is a strong ball carrier, and has some skills.


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Jun 2018, 11:24
#3
17 Jun 2018, 11:24#3

Over stated case as Plum succumbs to peer pressure!  He contributed more than Am of whom you say nothing!

Allende wasn' t nearly as bad as you make out. Esterhuizen will most likely get a chance on Saturday and that's fine too!

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2018, 11:25
#4
17 Jun 2018, 11:25#4

Plum

Nothing else is new from you except your hatred of the man  - who should be center instead of  De Allende?   Please motivate your response.  

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Jun 2018, 11:27
#5
17 Jun 2018, 11:27#5

SB 

JSVR needs more time for his knee to improve and to lose some weight. His injury was horrendous.

The problem for DDA is  Cois. His Lions 12s and 13s are all intelligent players who can distribute and read the game.

My feeling is that they won't suffer DDA much longer.

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Jun 2018, 11:29
#6
17 Jun 2018, 11:29#6

Lol Mike I hate DDA?

Do I hate him because of his provincial side, his ancestory or because he flirted with my bird?

No Mike, he is just sub par and you are one of the few who don't think so. The very few. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Jun 2018, 11:31
#7
17 Jun 2018, 11:31#7

Janse is a very talented player and i hope he recovers fully and fast!

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Jun 2018, 11:56
#8
17 Jun 2018, 11:56#8

@ Beeno

Am got very little ball. He didn't do much wrong at all as he didn't have the opportunity to. 

 Even if he had the same level of performance as De Allende he still comes out in top since DDA was the most capped player starting in the backs yesterday. 

That's the problem. If he's not a quality player who can be relied upon by now, he just never gonna be. 

It's time to move on.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2018, 12:35
#9
17 Jun 2018, 12:35#9

Move where to?

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Jun 2018, 12:50
#10
17 Jun 2018, 12:50#10

Esterhuizen, Kwagga, Venter, Serfontein, JSVR...

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jun 2018, 14:51
#11
17 Jun 2018, 14:51#11
He repeated his botch at the end of the first test.....late in the second half he is away with Kriel and another Bok open outside him. And he turns inside.....movement killer......possible try killer. Decision making....he has none. And it was a bit embarrassing watching the carthorse Farrell hauling him in from behind.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
17 Jun 2018, 14:55
#12
17 Jun 2018, 14:55#12

Happy for Esterhuizen to get a shot. JVR also when fit. See who does best.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2018, 14:56
#13
17 Jun 2018, 14:56#13

You lied about the instance you refer to in the first test.   You call Farrell a cart horse - jokes aplenty/    

Yet you admire really slow centers like Bausteraud, Kerevi and top of your list Fqqat Fransie. - that really is a joke.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jun 2018, 16:28
#14
17 Jun 2018, 16:28#14
What I really don't admire is a centre caught from behind by a carthorse.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2018, 17:47
#15
17 Jun 2018, 17:47#15

OK = so your erstwhile hero Farrell is now suddenly is a carthorse - what a fool.  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jun 2018, 19:24
#16
17 Jun 2018, 19:24#16
Nope he's a flyhalf, a good one, but no speed merchant.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2018, 19:59
#17
17 Jun 2018, 19:59#17

And I got the message from your postings that Am is top class? 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2018, 19:59
#18
17 Jun 2018, 19:59#18


CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
17 Jun 2018, 19:59
#19
17 Jun 2018, 19:59#19


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Jun 2018, 20:10
#20
17 Jun 2018, 20:10#20
How?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Jun 2018, 10:33
#21
18 Jun 2018, 10:33#21

Mozart

Aside from the fact that your description of incidents in games is a bad joke of deception or even lies - one has to bear in mind the fact that pace apparently is applicable only to certain players.  Your great admiration for the paceless Fat Fransie is an example - but you also rate the slow centers like Bausteraud, Kerevi and Kuridrani.

So where to now?   One has to accept th at your initial assessment of backline play to the affect that it is not important  for backlines to do anything,  but to defend and that the main function of the half-backs - namely to kick balls away - remains intact.   

Problem is the last two tests were played on a more comprehensive basis have not hit home in your case yet - so maybe one has to accept that you may yet find out what is to happen in future.  Not much chance of that though - and we can accept some further warped comments by you in future as well.             

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Jun 2018, 15:13
#22
18 Jun 2018, 15:13#22
How?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Jun 2018, 16:47
#23
18 Jun 2018, 16:47#23

Stick to full facts when dealing with incidents and do no invent what you wanted to have seen in your descriptions.   That would help for a start.

Beware of prejudice - because that leads to falsified descriptions.    

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
18 Jun 2018, 22:07
#24
18 Jun 2018, 22:07#24
De Allende was picked for Planet Rugby”s team of the week.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Jun 2018, 22:51
#25
18 Jun 2018, 22:51#25

JW Allende had a good game. Egos here get involved and few are objective!

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Jun 2018, 08:28
#26
19 Jun 2018, 08:28#26

DdA is not the smartest player around and his positioning on defense lets him down at times, but he is a strong player who can break tackles and offload. Not a world beater, but not as bad as some would make him out to be. His losing the ball in contact on Saturday was a bit of an anomaly .

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
19 Jun 2018, 13:27
#27
19 Jun 2018, 13:27#27

The problem with DDA for me is that he has a knack for disrupting his own attack. He times passes badly and/or just does not seem to know which situations require the ball to be spread more or less quickly.

He is a good defender against static or slow moving opposition since he can normally match them for strength but as soon as things are happening more quickly with decision making and technique being required then he seems to fail more often.

His gain line success is also not a shadow of what it was in his first few seasons. Occasionally he'll get a clean break but for the most part his step is entirely missing. 

Anyone know how he stacks up to Boks of the past who played at 12? 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Jun 2018, 15:05
#28
19 Jun 2018, 15:05#28
How? Tokkie you are going to have to answer the question....how did you get the message I supposedly think Am is top class?
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
19 Jun 2018, 15:34
#29
19 Jun 2018, 15:34#29

Plum

I read the heading ad wondered whether De Allende has a doctorate in center play?  

I think you are a bit unfair about De Allende's defense.   He had some really good games against players like Ngatai, Nonu and SB Williams - in fact he wiped the floor with them.   His test experience initially was all at 13 - with De Villiers playing at 12.  When De Villiers was injured in 2014 he moved to 12 for the WC  RC tests and that is where there was an initial problem with missed tackles, but the problem was not entirely his own - he played outside pflyhalfs with serious tackle deficiencies as well.   

I think De Allende has a problem with tackling players from the side.    It happened agaion in the case of the recent Brown try.   He tackled a player in-field and the ball came back to the English from the breakdown.   It took time for De Allende to get up from that tacke and he started running towards the side where the ball was moving to/   The first tackle was at least 15 meters from the place where the ball was in the hands of Brown after the lattr brok a rather weak tackle attempt by Pollard.   Arriving at the ball-carrier he made a serious tactical error by traying to free the ball from Browns hands instead of taking him all out from the side.   However, as stated he has problems tackling players from the side - especially when they have beaten other  tacklers as well.

Fact is De Allende had wo or three poor defensive games which gave him a bad name as a defender.  Mozart started bitching about his defense after the Aussie test in 2015.   De Allende made 15 tackles in that game and missed 6 - the number of tackles were very high for a center 0 but the missed tackle ratio was also too high.   In most other tests his defense was good to average.   For instance in the last two tests he made 17 tackles and missed only 1 - that is way below what is regarded as an acceptable ratio (ie 15% missed tackles).

De Allende rarely played rugby in 2017 due to injury.    So lets deal with attacking play.    He was initially very good in braking lines and beating defenders.   In Super Rugby in 2014 he made 27 line breaks beating 72 defenders.   The same type of ratio appeared in the 2015 tests he played in - he was for instance the players in the 2015 WC who beat more defenders than any other center in the comp.

Now back to the present scenario.   I think the defense has worked out that De Allende  would beak tackles at will against a single opponent, so they now have to use two or even three defenders to stop him from making line breaks.   When tackled by two or even three defenders there is always the \danger of a possession loss - which happened twice on Saturday

I think that if opposing teams have other worries outside or inside of him - they would not concentrate their defense  on him only.   However, that has not been the case and I think the need to strengthen that situation so as t divert attention from him alone.

Of the players who played at inside center over the past decade  I would rate them as follows:-

1   De Villiers

2   De Allende

3   Olivier

4   Fat Fransie

Olivier was a very static crashballer - not really physically strong enough for the position.   Fat Fransie was a total disaster playing on lower level for years now.   In the tests he played in in 2012 he was a disaster.    In two cases he tried to make relieving kicks from the red zone the balls rolled along the ground and it put the whole team virtually off-side.   

On defense in Super Rugby he was worse than De Allende was and his attacking play was virtually non-existent.   He was more know for possession handovers and in 2014 he handed possession over by BS kicking and ball striping by the opposition  a record 32 times and was penalized 8 times for hanging onto balls at breakdowns, because he was a known ball-hogger.   No wonder Plumtree in 2013 said he is no center at all.       

I think that the best solution would be to play Esterhuizen at 12 and De Allende at 13.   The two  physically strong players together would lead to serious problems for defenders and would automatically open up the attacking play much better,   

  

               


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