MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Oct 2014, 20:11#3
As I recall Marcel was spliced sideways and then transported backwards. But thanks for the update.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
21 Oct 2014, 21:22#4
Dreyer is 115kg and Redlinghuys 114. My impression has been Dreyer is the faster of the two and possibly Redlinghuys the stronger?
Schalk van der merwe, l oosehead is 115 kg. Also nice and mobile.Question is why are they doing so well? How poor are our other coaches come scrum times?
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
21 Oct 2014, 21:32#5
HasBeen these big guys with long backs rarely scrum well. A cobby chap around 115 kgs does just fine....the issue is in the lineouts where taller chaps are better support lifters.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
21 Oct 2014, 22:01#6
The remarks made by Mozart is as per normal crap. At least he is honest about one thing - he hardly ever watch Lions games this year - but he is an expert on players he has not watched - that much is evident from his comments.
What Mozart missed out throughout the year was that the scrumming of the Lions were rated the best of all teams in Super 15. In the games between the Lions and the Sharks in Super 15 Van der Merwe humiliated Jannie and that is a fact as well.
Earlier in the season in Super 15 Redelinghuys was the Lions tighthead - and Dreyer was on the bench - late in Super 15 Redelinghuys was injured and he was replaced by Dreyer - who played in the latter games of the Super 15 and in the CC games - where Redleinghuys returned from injury and was then put on the bench. There really is little to chooose between those two players - but Redelinghuys is the stroneger scrummager of the two..
I have been touting the Lions props as the answer to part of the solution of the Springbok prop problems for the past three months at least. Van der Merwe is way better than the joke Steenkamp we had at times in the RC. Both the to tightheads made mince meat of Jannie in scrumming as well.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Oct 2014, 22:19#7
Moffie take on Marcel is a pack of lies. Hell this twit has Pat Cilliers as our best option at 3 I kid you not.
Imagine taking Moffies take on props seriously?
He is still smarting after Marcel ripped the Kiwi loose head to shreds after telling us Marcel could not scrum.
Moffie do us a favour and shut your ignorant trap when it comes to props
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
21 Oct 2014, 22:21#8
I saw somewhere that Schalk v/d Merwe weighed 130kg
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2014, 10:59#9
Snapster SA RUBGY. Net gives him at 141 which is ludicrous. Wiki gives him at 105 kg which is ludicrous as well.The Lions website gives him at 115 kg. He could be a bit more?
The real point here is a lightweight pack is outscruming heavier packs. Surely an indication again as to our outdated scrumming techniques.We have in the past been outscrummed by both the Argies and France with lighter packs. Technique must be a factor as here once again we have the 880of kg Lions pack out scruming the Sharks at around 910kg. Not slightly outscrumming the Sharks but in a big way. AND being the top scrumming side in the Super 15.
Give these Lions props a shot on the year end tour. It has to be the logical thing to do given the injured players (Kitshoff, Malherbe, Marcell), Coenie's scrumming gone to pot and Du Toit not ready just yet.
What I really like about the Lions Props is their mobility and work rate. A huge part of the sucess the Lions have enjoyed.
Props who could go on YE tour.
Loseheads - Beast, Greyling, Van der Merwe, Kebble, Du ToitTightheads - Jannie, Dreyer and Redlinghuys.
Not considered:Kitshoff, Malherbe and Marcell.
Meyer will probably take 5 or even 6 props. Who would the 6 be? I think they will come out of this lot.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2014, 12:03#11
He is not too bad Biltongbek. He is also very hard working outside the scrums.
However see my thread re our yo unger props.
22 Oct 2014, 12:36#13
Must agree ... Greyling and Kruger are useless.
Only Meyer and his blue blood will ever know how they became Bokke .
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
22 Oct 2014, 12:43#14
Kruger is poor but Greyling not too bad.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
22 Oct 2014, 18:30#15
People's takes on Coenie are about as accurate as they were with Hougaard.......all a load of shit
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
22 Oct 2014, 18:56#16
Coenie, Greyling and Kruger are all poor scrummagers, despite being powerful men. I have my doubts about Marcel, Malherbe and Kitshoff. Thomas looks like the future, but the Lions scrum took him to the cleaners last week.
These are facts.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
22 Oct 2014, 20:20#18
Facts according to Mozart - but not real facts. Coenie has had neck injury that put him back. G reuyling has to struggle with useless Matfield backing him up. Kruger is plainly a poor scrummager. He has his doubts about all players he does not like and normally quote examples that he has invented or blown out of proprtion.
The Lions scrum took the Sharks apart in Super 15 as well. they were especially hard on Jannie - but that he would never admit, because Jannie is his national treasure and his favoured tighthead is Cillliers.
Rotten thuinking aboutplayers he has not seen - the Lions props. .
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Oct 2014, 08:19#20
Mozart
I apologize for upsetting you. Now lets get back to business. There is no doubt that Greyyling is not a good scrummager. He was always sub-par in that component of the game. I taunt you with Matfield - he definitely is not the strongest lock around - he always was poor in elements of Tight 5 play and hat include scruumming - but then Greyling was never the best scrummager arounnd.= with or without Matfield.
Now lets get to The Lions props. Throughout Supr 15 the Lions were regarded as the top scrumming outfit in Super 15. They gave problems to every other team in Super 15 and one of the teams that struggled against them was the S harks - with Beast and Jannie facing them.
O my mind that brings all of Schalk van der Merwe, Redelinghuys and Dreyer into contention for Springbok selection. Van der Merwe a loosehead was particularly difficult to contend with. He is to my mind outr back-up Tighthead for Beast.
The problem is that Redelinghuis and Dreyer are difficult to decide which one is the ebtter one of the two. In Super 15 Redelinghuis was the startin player - with Dreyer as his bacjk-upRedelinghuis got injured in May and was replaced by Dreyer in the starting line-up. Redelinghuys was out of contentiion up until about three weeks ago and then came back as the bench player of the Lions in the CC.
Both are good options with -
* Redlinghuis the slightly better scrummager of the two; and* Dreyer the slightly better all round player of the two.
The emphasis is on Slightly - there really is nothing much between the two players. Both are definitely better scrummagers than Jannie du Plessis and both are better all-round players as well - both in ball carries and defense.
I would prefer to see our starting props to be Beast and Redelinghuis - with the bench props being Van der Merwe and Jannie. Insofar as the EOYT is concerned - with all the injury problems - I think all three Lions props should be in the squad.
Insofar as Coenie is concerned - I think we are in agreement as to his scrumming. There can be no dount that he was an above average scrummer in the past - at present he is definitely below par. There can be no doubt - like Van Biljon - his neck injury is the reason for the slide tht ocurred in his case.
Tobias du Toit is for the future and if he gets his technique correct - he will be top qualityin time to come, In essense I think the props will sort themself out in Super 15 next year - Jannie has a chance to retain his position in the S pringbok squad - but if poresent trends continue -his chances are dimming every game.
23 Oct 2014, 09:01#21
Mike ... you don't want two tighthead props on the bench ... do you? Both Marcel and Jannie play at 3.
Jannie doesn't merit his selection ... AT ALL.
Not as a scrummager and definitely not in general play. He's a penalty machine, a poor defender. turns ball over constantly and his love for ref bashing drives me insane.
Why Meyer hasn't taken him to task because of it is beyond me.
The best looseheads in the country are Schalk vd Merwe and Du Toit.
The best tightheads in the country are Julian Redelinghuys, Ruan Dreyer and Marcell Van Der Merwe.
Of the 5 mentioned only one is part of the Bok set up and he finds himself on the bench from time to time.
We all know that it begins upfront ... except Meyer as fo-kkin usual. Why is everything always such an issue with this moron. It's worse than pulling teeth.
He's been a t the helm for the last three years now and still he doesn't know who his top 30 players are. All that time wasted on the Kirchners, the Steenkamps and the Bakkies Botha's ...
Will he be announcing his touring squad this Saturday?
Any bets Gurthro is in the mix?
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Oct 2014, 09:44#22
CC
I frankly agree with you about Jannie - but beleive that the better Tightheads are in fact Malherbe, Van der Merwe, Redelinguys and Dreyer. However - the first two are injured - so it is down to Redlinghuys and Dreyer to be theTigtheads - bu I do not think Meyer will completely abondon Jannie - hence my comment in the rlevant regard.
I am also a Schalk van der Merwe admirer and will have no problem with him at loosehead. However, again I think Meyer will baulk and I hope Schalk is the bench player at least.
23 Oct 2014, 09:58#25
"Maybe you should take off your anti-Bulls glasses. Both Kruger and
Greyling were capped by PDV. HM played them from the bench, early in
2012. Kruger twice and Greyling once."
Either way ... they were useless then and they're useless still ... yet dumb ass Meyer plays them anyway, just cause they're Bulls.
23 Oct 2014, 10:05#26
biltongbek ... I am of the opinion that to be a Bok you need to be special. There are a few players currently in the Bok side that fall short of this ... way short.
Beast is ok. He'll keep giving his best and won't really let the side down. However having said that, I don't regard him as I do an Os ... and what I'm looking for is an Os.
Yeah yeah ... I know finding an Os is virtually impossible and comparing every loosehead to him a tad unfair ... however that's where he set the bar at and I can't help myself in making the comparison.
23 Oct 2014, 10:10#27
just for the record, biltonbek ... which provincial team to you cheer for?
23 Oct 2014, 10:17#28
Mike ... what has Malherbe done to have impressed you so?
All I see is a very large man, out weighing most by 10kg plus, putting average work in at scrum time ... not dominating anyone as one would expect ... just sort of leaning on his opponent. In fact I've seen him struggling at times against smaller opposition. It doesn't impress me at all.
Then I see any of the two Lions tighthead props decimating the opposition and that at a mere 115kg. That impresses me ... big time.
Oh and another thing ... when last has Malherbe been injury free for a lengthy period of time? Has he ever even managed to complete a season without injury?
JEJeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
23 Oct 2014, 10:36#29
In recent years the Lions players have always been underrated in the franchise due to where the team stands in Super XV log I presume. Julian Redelinghuys is one out of the few that is overlooked in the Lions team, its unfortunate. The Lions scrum was dominate as a unit in the first and second shove. It manifested the depth of the quality props we have in SA with Redelinghuys, Olli Kebble, Du Toit, Marcell Van Der Merwe and others but are we going to make use of the depth we have by considering Redelinghuys or another prop for springbok selection? Probably not.
Jannie has been known to disrupt the scrum by engaging too early or collapsing the scrum, it isn't just the case of that he has a low work rate in general play. As a result of all those problems he has be become one of the worst performing props in the last couple of years in SA. Meyer needs to understand that a prop with a speciality at scrumming, good defence and ball carrying will improve the team without Jannie.
To decide whether to pick Julian Redelinghuys or Ruan Dreyer is a easy one for me. I'd prefer Redelinghuys for the fact that he is a stronger ball carrier and looks like the better scrummager in my view. I can recall Ruan Dreyer getting hit hard by Alesana Tuilagi against Samoa, it wasn't ideal.
I would like to see Julian Redelinghuys involved in the NH tour to Europe, I'm sure he'll do much better than Jannie that is for certain. This front row trio wouldn't be bad 1. Tendai Mtawarira, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 3 Julian Redelinghuy
JEJeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
23 Oct 2014, 10:58#30
CleanCut
Malherbe is not so impressive, the player is overrated by some.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Oct 2014, 11:45#34
Biltongbek is correct about technique as the key element and that remains an issue - even more than weight of players. I do rate Malherbe slightly above Van der Merwe - but also rate Redelinghuis and Dreyer.
My point has nothing to do wth provincialism and relates solely to th bes men for the job.
23 Oct 2014, 11:48#35
Yes Jerome ... finally someone who sees him as I do ... an average Joe with nothing special to contribute.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
23 Oct 2014, 12:22#36
Malherbe is an outstanding young tighthead. He showed his ability by stoppoing the rt In Argentina. His work rate is very good as well. I also noted beast got no change out of him.Yes he has had injury porblems and hopefully that is no more than misfortune. Guys like wee cc need to see an optician as they celarly have no clue.
Snapster needs an eye transplant if he thinks Coenie is scrumming well. I sincerely hope they can get him right but time marches on and hope is fading.
The selection of the props for the YE tour will come from the following:
Beast, Van der Merwe, Du Toit (Meyer will probably take him along for experience) Nyankane - helps the quota situation - but he is not too bad a player in any event.Jannie (Meyer will not throw him out) Redlinghuys. Dreyer may make it if he takes 6 props.
Again some oaks like Cerundunce Windpomp fall into the same old error. Give me a 124 kg prob who is mobile and has good technique over a 115 kg prop etc.
The reason the Lions scrum is doing well is superior technique. Dont tell me the 880kg Lions pack is the strongest in the Super 15 this year bwahhahahahahahaha ou cerudunce windpomp is so easily lead astray by any nonsensical notion surfing the web. He now thinks size is not an issue!Ou maaaikie if I was a prop and weighed 92 kg and had superb technique I would still be taken to the cleaners come scrum time.
One day we may proceed to rugby 101 !
23 Oct 2014, 12:24#37
Agreed Jerome ... you and I are definitely on the same page.
Replacing Jannie with anyone just for the sake of getting rid of Jannie is foolish.
One would always look toward a better replacement and in this case Redelinghuys as well as Dreyer would be a massif improvement on the useless Jannie and the average Malherbe .
23 Oct 2014, 12:27#38
Beandip ... you know as much about rugby as you do religion so do us all a favour and shut that friggin pie hole.
Thanks a lot!!
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
23 Oct 2014, 12:30#39
Beeno
W hat are you rumbling on about - nobody ever mentioned a 92kg prop - it is where player are about the same weight that technigue determin the better scrummager.
23 Oct 2014, 12:54#40
The man's delusional ... as usual.
It's all that broccoli rotting his brain!
